NYC to 200k

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the new Susman scale starts "first years"* with one year of clerking at 205?

*Knowing that a Susman first year would be a second year anywhere else, but Susman won't give a year of class credit for clerking.


Yes, should be


So what's a typical bonus for a Susman "first-year" associate? If their total year-end pay is just $5K more than typical Biglaw at a place like S&C or DPW, seems not worth it for all that extra work they have to do!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the new Susman scale starts "first years"* with one year of clerking at 205?

*Knowing that a Susman first year would be a second year anywhere else, but Susman won't give a year of class credit for clerking.


Yes, should be


So what's a typical bonus for a Susman "first-year" associate? If their total year-end pay is just $5K more than typical Biglaw at a place like S&C or DPW, seems not worth it for all that extra work they have to do!


Susman bonus is 1.5-2x market on average. Its above market, but not wildly so. But its not really about compensation; Susman offers trial experience to its litigators in a way that’s inaccessible from Davis Polk/ect., so if you want to be a real trial lawyer, Susman is boss

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the new Susman scale starts "first years"* with one year of clerking at 205?

*Knowing that a Susman first year would be a second year anywhere else, but Susman won't give a year of class credit for clerking.


Yes, should be


So what's a typical bonus for a Susman "first-year" associate? If their total year-end pay is just $5K more than typical Biglaw at a place like S&C or DPW, seems not worth it for all that extra work they have to do!


Depends on the year, but last year the Cravath bonus for a second-year (what Susman calls a typical first year) was $25,000. At Susman, the median for last year was $45,000. And the differential is better as you go higher. For example, last year class of 2013 on Cravath scale was at $65k and Susman class of 2013 was $100k median. Bonuses are almost always much higher than the market. Now add in the extra $5k in salary and the other "soft" factors that make working there pretty nice and I'd say it's worth it.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the new Susman scale starts "first years"* with one year of clerking at 205?

*Knowing that a Susman first year would be a second year anywhere else, but Susman won't give a year of class credit for clerking.


Yes, should be


So what's a typical bonus for a Susman "first-year" associate? If their total year-end pay is just $5K more than typical Biglaw at a place like S&C or DPW, seems not worth it for all that extra work they have to do!


Obviously rare, but I thought a first year got like a $150k bonus last year.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So the new Susman scale starts "first years"* with one year of clerking at 205?

*Knowing that a Susman first year would be a second year anywhere else, but Susman won't give a year of class credit for clerking.


Yes, should be


So what's a typical bonus for a Susman "first-year" associate? If their total year-end pay is just $5K more than typical Biglaw at a place like S&C or DPW, seems not worth it for all that extra work they have to do!


Obviously rare, but I thought a first year got like a $150k bonus last year.


No, not quite that high unless you're somehow including the clerkship bonus in that.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:32 pm

Vault's Verdict wrote:Susman is incredibly selective in its hiring-incoming associates all have at least one federal clerkship-and many have two-under their belts. . . . Cases are extremely leanly staffed-generally there will be a single associate on any given case-and the associates will be expected to do work that would be reserved only for partners at most BigLaw shops. With this great responsibility, however, comes ridiculously long hours. There is no hours expectation, but many associates said the unspoken level is 2,500 hours and associates have no problem hitting that mark, though they are happy to have the flexibility and autonomy to work those hours largely when and where they want to.


Associate's Quote on Hours, per Vault wrote:There is no official [hours] requirement, but everyone works a ton (like 2,500+/year). A limited number of training hours count during your first few months at the firm. Travel and pro bono count.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:15 pm

Speaking of places where attorneys bill a lot of hours, does anyone on this board work at BSF and have insight onto if/when/how they are adjusting the formula to reflect the new market base compensation? If so please share!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Vault's Verdict wrote:Susman is incredibly selective in its hiring-incoming associates all have at least one federal clerkship-and many have two-under their belts. . . . Cases are extremely leanly staffed-generally there will be a single associate on any given case-and the associates will be expected to do work that would be reserved only for partners at most BigLaw shops. With this great responsibility, however, comes ridiculously long hours. There is no hours expectation, but many associates said the unspoken level is 2,500 hours and associates have no problem hitting that mark, though they are happy to have the flexibility and autonomy to work those hours largely when and where they want to.


Associate's Quote on Hours, per Vault wrote:There is no official [hours] requirement, but everyone works a ton (like 2,500+/year). A limited number of training hours count during your first few months at the firm. Travel and pro bono count.


This sounds like a nightmare. Literally. In this case, my time would be worth far more than prestige. No way would I work like this. NO WAY!

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Vault's Verdict wrote:Susman is incredibly selective in its hiring-incoming associates all have at least one federal clerkship-and many have two-under their belts. . . . Cases are extremely leanly staffed-generally there will be a single associate on any given case-and the associates will be expected to do work that would be reserved only for partners at most BigLaw shops. With this great responsibility, however, comes ridiculously long hours. There is no hours expectation, but many associates said the unspoken level is 2,500 hours and associates have no problem hitting that mark, though they are happy to have the flexibility and autonomy to work those hours largely when and where they want to.


Associate's Quote on Hours, per Vault wrote:There is no official [hours] requirement, but everyone works a ton (like 2,500+/year). A limited number of training hours count during your first few months at the firm. Travel and pro bono count.


This sounds like a nightmare. Literally. In this case, my time would be worth far more than prestige. No way would I work like this. NO WAY!

People generally don't go for the prestige; they go for the ability to actually try cases early early in their career. Susman (and, for that matter, its peer firms) attracts a specific type of person--entrepreneurial, confident, and hard working. Some thrive, while others don't.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Vault's Verdict wrote:Susman is incredibly selective in its hiring-incoming associates all have at least one federal clerkship-and many have two-under their belts. . . . Cases are extremely leanly staffed-generally there will be a single associate on any given case-and the associates will be expected to do work that would be reserved only for partners at most BigLaw shops. With this great responsibility, however, comes ridiculously long hours. There is no hours expectation, but many associates said the unspoken level is 2,500 hours and associates have no problem hitting that mark, though they are happy to have the flexibility and autonomy to work those hours largely when and where they want to.


Associate's Quote on Hours, per Vault wrote:There is no official [hours] requirement, but everyone works a ton (like 2,500+/year). A limited number of training hours count during your first few months at the firm. Travel and pro bono count.


This sounds like a nightmare. Literally. In this case, my time would be worth far more than prestige. No way would I work like this. NO WAY!

People generally don't go for the prestige; they go for the ability to actually try cases early early in their career. Susman (and, for that matter, its peer firms) attracts a specific type of person--entrepreneurial, confident, and hard working. Some thrive, while others don't.


And there are plenty of people who are all of those things as well as attentive, loving, and devoted....meaning giving this much time to their career means neglecting other things in their lives (e.g. children, spouses, friends, etc.). The people who thrive are probably those who have nothing else to live for and/or don't care enough about other areas of their lives. If they are married and/or have kids, I'd love to see what they think about their choices, 5, 10, and 15 years from the day they chose that path.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:00 am

Let's get back to the important things in life like what CA firms are matching this week.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:02 am

And which DC/Boston merger firms are matching today.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:And which DC/Boston merger firms are matching today.


WilmerFail looks more laughable by the minute.

Everyone knew A&P wouldn't match earlier, they're not doing great financially. And CovingTTTon is living up to its namesake. But now both Wilmer and Hale have pressure from their home markets--if they don't match today then Idunno what's going on

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:Let's get back to the important things in life like what CA firms are matching this week.


MoFo will match this week.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Let's get back to the important things in life like what CA firms are matching this week.


MoFo will match this week.


And OMM, fingers crossed.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:08 am


Anonymous User
Posts: 329093
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Let's get back to the important things in life like what CA firms are matching this week.


MoFo will match this week.


Are you speculating or do you have info?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:52 am

OMM matched. Need pro rated hours to receive bonus, but can make it up by end of year.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:56 am

OMM just matched. Firmwide voicemail as usual. Salary payable July 1, bonuses July 31.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:OMM just matched. Firmwide voicemail as usual. Salary payable July 1, bonuses July 31.


Yesssss.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:OMM just matched. Firmwide voicemail as usual. Salary payable July 1, bonuses July 31.


.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:12 am

Why don't more associates push for geography-specific raises? Most associates live in cities with ungodly cost-of-living expenses. Why would they want to subsidize the more luxurious lifestyles of associates in cheaper cities? Partners should be on board, because it could save them money.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Why don't more associates push for geography-specific raises? Most associates live in cities with ungodly cost-of-living expenses. Why would they want to subsidize the more luxurious lifestyles of associates in cheaper cities? Partners should be on board, because it could save them money.


Or they could try moving to one of those cheaper cities. Also are they really "subisdizing" if the associates in cheaper cities are more profitable due to lower overhead?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Why don't more associates push for geography-specific raises? Most associates live in cities with ungodly cost-of-living expenses. Why would they want to subsidize the more luxurious lifestyles of associates in cheaper cities? Partners should be on board, because it could save them money.


Because, as discussed elsewhere in this thread, not all small offices in cheaper cities are subsidized by bigger offices in larger cities. Your question has a faulty assumption. This muddies the market since some firms think it's worth paying NYC salaries in Texas/Seattle/Denver/etc. Others follow if they want top talent.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:Why don't more associates push for geography-specific raises? Most associates live in cities with ungodly cost-of-living expenses. Why would they want to subsidize the more luxurious lifestyles of associates in cheaper cities? Partners should be on board, because it could save them money.


Interesting. At my firm, and as I understand to be true of other firms as well, the NY office is supported by work generated outside of NY. I agree with your statement, though, and I'm trying to understand why my firm chooses to subsidize the lifestyles of our lawyers in NY. In any event, we're all glad that the associates in the non-NY offices are treated equally to those in the NY office, since we are working on and generating the deals that pay the bills.



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