NYC to 200k

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there any justifiable reason for a firm that's made its decision to match to wait to announce it?

If a firm is one of the last firms to match, the firm can tell its clients (who see the raises as coming out of their pockets) that the firm had no control over the increase, and did not want to do so, but was forced to go along with the raises to remain competitive. Whereas if the firm is one of the first to match, a client might argue that the firm had a hand in encouraging salary increases (and therefore rates).

Moving/matching first makes sense from an associate/recruiting-centric mindset, whereas matching last makes sense from a client-centric mindset.


At this point, any firm matching the Cravath scale could hardly be seen as being "having a hand in encouraging salary increases." The ball is already in motion and no one except for Milbank, STB, and Cravath can claim credit for it. Frankly, it is bizarre that we haven't seen more activity today.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there any justifiable reason for a firm that's made its decision to match to wait to announce it?

If a firm is one of the last firms to match, the firm can tell its clients (who see the raises as coming out of their pockets) that the firm had no control over the increase, and did not want to do so, but was forced to go along with the raises to remain competitive. Whereas if the firm is one of the first to match, a client might argue that the firm had a hand in encouraging salary increases (and therefore rates).

Moving/matching first makes sense from an associate/recruiting-centric mindset, whereas matching last makes sense from a client-centric mindset.


Timing/productivity. Perhaps the comp committee at a firm couldn't meet until this week and does not want to announce until Friday afternoon/evening when they are less likely to be bringing in as much revenue as a weekday night. Associates are likely to take the night off to celebrate when they hear the news.

Yes, I know it's inaccurate to say associates won't be working Friday nights, but I think you're more likely to have more associates working on another weekday night.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there any justifiable reason for a firm that's made its decision to match to wait to announce it?

If a firm is one of the last firms to match, the firm can tell its clients (who see the raises as coming out of their pockets) that the firm had no control over the increase, and did not want to do so, but was forced to go along with the raises to remain competitive. Whereas if the firm is one of the first to match, a client might argue that the firm had a hand in encouraging salary increases (and therefore rates).

Moving/matching first makes sense from an associate/recruiting-centric mindset, whereas matching last makes sense from a client-centric mindset.


Timing/productivity. Perhaps the comp committee at a firm couldn't meet until this week and does not want to announce until Friday afternoon/evening when they are less likely to be bringing in as much revenue as a weekday night. Associates are likely to take the night off to celebrate when they hear the news.

Yes, I know it's inaccurate to say associates won't be working Friday nights, but I think you're more likely to have more associates working on another weekday night.


This argument ignores the fact that waiting until Friday makes associates less productive for 5 days, because they'll have to continue reading this thread, ATL and speculating all week.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:21 pm

Cooley match but no bonus:

In regard to the summer bonuses being paid by some firms, we have chosen a different course
consistent with our long‐standing commitment to awarding merit‐based bonuses. In the Management
Committee’s view, the only basis upon which to decide who would receive a summer bonus and who
would not would be year‐to‐date billable hours averages through June. The variability of work flow and
the timing of leaves of absence and vacations across a given calendar year aside, the simple fact is that
our bonus system is not based upon productivity alone. As we have consistently demonstrated, we
differentially reward an attorney’s total contribution to the firm, to include performance, productivity
and non‐billable contributions which demonstrate behavior that is consonant with the Firm’s values.

Rather than pay bonuses based on productivity alone at this stage in the year, our 2018 bonuses will be
paid with a clear understanding of the total compensation being paid within the market at the
conclusion of the year. Consistent with prior years, our differentiated bonus payments will provide total
annualized compensation for our top performers which materially exceeds the total compensation
received by attorneys at other firms.

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Emma.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Emma. » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there any justifiable reason for a firm that's made its decision to match to wait to announce it?

If a firm is one of the last firms to match, the firm can tell its clients (who see the raises as coming out of their pockets) that the firm had no control over the increase, and did not want to do so, but was forced to go along with the raises to remain competitive. Whereas if the firm is one of the first to match, a client might argue that the firm had a hand in encouraging salary increases (and therefore rates).

Moving/matching first makes sense from an associate/recruiting-centric mindset, whereas matching last makes sense from a client-centric mindset.


Timing/productivity. Perhaps the comp committee at a firm couldn't meet until this week and does not want to announce until Friday afternoon/evening when they are less likely to be bringing in as much revenue as a weekday night. Associates are likely to take the night off to celebrate when they hear the news.

Yes, I know it's inaccurate to say associates won't be working Friday nights, but I think you're more likely to have more associates working on another weekday night.


God I hope they know better. It’s the waiting that’s killing my productivity.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Cooley match but no bonus:

In regard to the summer bonuses being paid by some firms, we have chosen a different course
consistent with our long‐standing commitment to awarding merit‐based bonuses. In the Management
Committee’s view, the only basis upon which to decide who would receive a summer bonus and who
would not would be year‐to‐date billable hours averages through June. The variability of work flow and
the timing of leaves of absence and vacations across a given calendar year aside, the simple fact is that
our bonus system is not based upon productivity alone. As we have consistently demonstrated, we
differentially reward an attorney’s total contribution to the firm, to include performance, productivity
and non‐billable contributions which demonstrate behavior that is consonant with the Firm’s values.

Rather than pay bonuses based on productivity alone at this stage in the year, our 2018 bonuses will be
paid with a clear understanding of the total compensation being paid within the market at the
conclusion of the year. Consistent with prior years, our differentiated bonus payments will provide total
annualized compensation for our top performers which materially exceeds the total compensation
received by attorneys at other firms.


Not Cool...ey

Anonymous User
Posts: 325139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Cooley match but no bonus:

In regard to the summer bonuses being paid by some firms, we have chosen a different course
consistent with our long‐standing commitment to awarding merit‐based bonuses. In the Management
Committee’s view, the only basis upon which to decide who would receive a summer bonus and who
would not would be year‐to‐date billable hours averages through June. The variability of work flow and
the timing of leaves of absence and vacations across a given calendar year aside, the simple fact is that
our bonus system is not based upon productivity alone. As we have consistently demonstrated, we
differentially reward an attorney’s total contribution to the firm, to include performance, productivity
and non‐billable contributions which demonstrate behavior that is consonant with the Firm’s values.

Rather than pay bonuses based on productivity alone at this stage in the year, our 2018 bonuses will be
paid with a clear understanding of the total compensation being paid within the market at the
conclusion of the year. Consistent with prior years, our differentiated bonus payments will provide total
annualized compensation for our top performers which materially exceeds the total compensation
received by attorneys at other firms.


what's standard bonus practice for cooley? is it black box or standard full bonus for hitting hours and then extra for top billers?

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:26 pm

Emma. wrote:God I hope they know better. It’s the waiting that’s killing my productivity.


Guy with the productivity theory here. I agree - I'm less productive for the waiting game. But let's not forget that this page is practically dead and most of our peers are just assuming they will get it at some point.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Emma. wrote:God I hope they know better. It’s the waiting that’s killing my productivity.


Guy with the productivity theory here. I agree - I'm less productive for the waiting game. But let's not forget that this page is practically dead and most of our peers are just assuming they will get it at some point.


This page is dead because 30 firms have matched, and those associates have tuned out.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Cooley match but no bonus:

In regard to the summer bonuses being paid by some firms, we have chosen a different course
consistent with our long‐standing commitment to awarding merit‐based bonuses. In the Management
Committee’s view, the only basis upon which to decide who would receive a summer bonus and who
would not would be year‐to‐date billable hours averages through June. The variability of work flow and
the timing of leaves of absence and vacations across a given calendar year aside, the simple fact is that
our bonus system is not based upon productivity alone. As we have consistently demonstrated, we
differentially reward an attorney’s total contribution to the firm, to include performance, productivity
and non‐billable contributions which demonstrate behavior that is consonant with the Firm’s values.

Rather than pay bonuses based on productivity alone at this stage in the year, our 2018 bonuses will be
paid with a clear understanding of the total compensation being paid within the market at the
conclusion of the year. Consistent with prior years, our differentiated bonus payments will provide total
annualized compensation for our top performers which materially exceeds the total compensation
received by attorneys at other firms.


Associates at Cooley--a firm with profits per partner over $2 million--should be very unhappy about this, not least because of the disingenuous language attempting to justify or excuse it.

Now that so many firms have matched the raise (or adjustment to keep pace with inflation) and bonus, talented and hard working associates at Cooley don't need to look far to see many peers at many peer firms making more than them. Those firms place greater value on their associate attorneys. Simple as that.

Students at Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and everywhere else should consider this in weighing whether or not to interview at a firm like Cooley at OCI. Sure, Cooley matched the salary adjustment. Next time there is a bonus at peer firms, however, do you expect Cooley to match it?

And for current associates considering a lateral market that is doing very well, why stay, when you could go to a firm that will compensate you for all of your efforts at the going market rate? What does it say about Cooley and the extent to which they value their associates that they won't match what most other big firms already have? Is their $2,000,000 in profits per partner not enough?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:40 pm

It seems pretty clear that Cooley intends to match the bonuses at the end of the year. People are losing out on interest, but that seems like about it.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Associates at Cooley--a firm with profits per partner over $2 million--should be very unhappy about this, not least because of the disingenuous language attempting to justify or excuse it.

Now that so many firms have matched the raise (or adjustment to keep pace with inflation) and bonus, talented and hard working associates at Cooley don't need to look far to see many peers at many peer firms making more than them. Those firms place greater value on their associate attorneys. Simple as that.

Students at Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and everywhere else should consider this in weighing whether or not to interview at a firm like Cooley at OCI. Sure, Cooley matched the salary adjustment. Next time there is a bonus at peer firms, however, do you expect Cooley to match it?

And for current associates considering a lateral market that is doing very well, why stay, when you could go to a firm that will compensate you for all of your efforts at the going market rate? What does it say about Cooley and the extent to which they value their associates that they won't match what most other big firms already have? Is their $2,000,000 in profits per partner not enough?


I tend to agree with most of this. At my firm meeting your hours = market bonus. If I wasn't hitting my annual rate, I'd know by now, and would be expecting the resulting lower (or no) bonus come year end. It's my own fault for missing the hours (or my practice group's, in which case I'd be more concerned about work drying up than bonuses), so missing the summer bonus isn't going to be a shocker. Other firms say "in good standing" and that's what I assume they mean. So their justification is flame.

I'm not, however, 100% with you on your recommendation to consider lateraling. If I had been doing well at the firm (read: above market bonuses) and was on track for more of the same this year, I would probably want to wait it out to see what my firm did. We'll know whether to trust Cooley in December/January.

With that being said, for those outside of Cooley (i.e., OCI bidders), you may want to take this into consideration. You won't know until later in the year where Cooley stands, at which point changing your summer firm will be futile. I'm not saying don't bid, but it's something to consider seriously when you're balancing your final list, callbacks, offers, etc.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It seems pretty clear that Cooley intends to match the bonuses at the end of the year. People are losing out on interest, but that seems like about it.


Yeah no. 90% of Cooley associates will never see this summer bonus. Those who make hours will get regular market bonus, some associates will leave, others will not make hours. Clever, shitty, and transparent move on the part of Cooley partners.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It seems pretty clear that Cooley intends to match the bonuses at the end of the year. People are losing out on interest, but that seems like about it.


This is absolutely not clear from the Cooley memo quoted above. It would have been very easy for firm management to match the bonuses. It would have been very easy for firm management to state unequivocally that Cooley associates who have good reviews and meet hours requirements will receive December bonuses that are above market by the amount of these summer bonuses. Cooley management didn't do that. They instead issued a memo with a bunch of hot air.

Cooley associates--or Cooley associates who are still around--who are unhappy now will be doubly unhappy in December when their bonuses aren't $10k or $15k or $25k over market to make up for this.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:It seems pretty clear that Cooley intends to match the bonuses at the end of the year. People are losing out on interest, but that seems like about it.


Yeah no. 90% of Cooley associates will never see this summer bonus. Those who make hours will get regular market bonus, some associates will leave, others will not make hours. Clever, shitty, and transparent move on the part of Cooley partners.


It seems like if you're on track to hit your hours, you're pissed, but if you're not on track to hit your hours, you're happy because it at least leaves open the possibility of getting extra money.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325139
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Cooley match but no bonus:

In regard to the summer bonuses being paid by some firms, we have chosen a different course
consistent with our long‐standing commitment to awarding merit‐based bonuses. In the Management
Committee’s view, the only basis upon which to decide who would receive a summer bonus and who
would not would be year‐to‐date billable hours averages through June. The variability of work flow and
the timing of leaves of absence and vacations across a given calendar year aside, the simple fact is that
our bonus system is not based upon productivity alone. As we have consistently demonstrated, we
differentially reward an attorney’s total contribution to the firm, to include performance, productivity
and non‐billable contributions which demonstrate behavior that is consonant with the Firm’s values.

Rather than pay bonuses based on productivity alone at this stage in the year, our 2018 bonuses will be
paid with a clear understanding of the total compensation being paid within the market at the
conclusion of the year. Consistent with prior years, our differentiated bonus payments will provide total
annualized compensation for our top performers which materially exceeds the total compensation
received by attorneys at other firms.


what's standard bonus practice for cooley? is it black box or standard full bonus for hitting hours and then extra for top billers?

Anonymous User
Posts: 325139
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:58 pm

V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.


Just made my day!

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.


lol at V&E matching before Latham and GDC

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.


lol at V&E matching before Latham and GDC


^This. Is there any real chance Latham and GDC don't match tomorrow?

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.


Just made my day!


The question now is whether BB and other Texas firms like HB would follow suit...

Anonymous User
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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:V&E matched Cravath scale + bonus


Houston, we have movement.


Just made my day!


From one disgustingly hot swampland where millions of people stupidly decided to settle to another--congrats Houston! Now DC really has to step up.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:22 pm

NY to 200k. We can't be on par and effectively below TX compensation

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NY to 200k. We can't be on par and effectively below TX compensation


Milbank TTTweed is so far below Texas now. Pathetic excuse for an AmLaw 20 firm.



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