NYC to 200k

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:44 pm

Forget about Williams & Connolly. A lot of SCOTUS clerks go to McGuire Woods, which pays...what?...50-60K less BEFORE bonuses?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:56 pm

.

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NakedPowerOrgan

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby NakedPowerOrgan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:White & Case matches Cravath with bonus (only a good standing requirement)


Firms with middling revenue per lawyers marks like White and Case and MLB matching is a good sign for everyone else.


RPL is probably a more useful metric in general, but PPP (while keeping leverage, total number of associates, and profitability growth in mind) is probably a better indicator for which firms can afford to give raises. Much bigger deal that Morgan Lewis matched than White & Case, which is more comparable to Sidley, Proskauer, etc.

They way I’m thinking about it: At White & Case, approx. 319 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $2.260MM on account of approx. 1206 associates getting raises. At Morgan Lewis, approx. 717 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $1.368MM on account of approx. 950 associates getting raises. For comparison’s sake, let’s assume average additional associates costs of $35K (summer bonus of $15K and salary bump of $20K).

White & Case’s PPP adjusted for associate raises and summer bonuses is $2.128MM, a 5.85% decrease, and Morgan Lewis’s adjusted PPP is $1.322MM, a 3.39% decrease. Morgan Lewis equity partners will experience a smaller decrease, although it’s likely that a biglaw partner making $1.4MM/yr would feel a hit of $46K more than a biglaw partner making $2.3MM/yr would feel a hit of $132K.

Importantly, though, White & Case has averaged 5.0 percent increases per year in PPP over the last five years, while Morgan Lewis has averaged 2.7 decreases. So if White & Case continues to grow at the historical rate, partners will hardly feel the effect this year, and given that summer bonuses are unlikely to become regular occurrences, this is blip on the radar for the wallets of White & Case equity partners. The same can’t be said for Morgan Lewis partners.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:00 pm

NakedPowerOrgan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:White & Case matches Cravath with bonus (only a good standing requirement)


Firms with middling revenue per lawyers marks like White and Case and MLB matching is a good sign for everyone else.


RPL is probably a more useful metric in general, but PPP (while keeping leverage, total number of associates, and profitability growth in mind) is probably a better indicator for which firms can afford to give raises. Much bigger deal that Morgan Lewis matched than White & Case, which is more comparable to Sidley, Proskauer, etc.

They way I’m thinking about it: At White & Case, approx. 319 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $2.260MM on account of approx. 1206 associates getting raises. At Morgan Lewis, approx. 717 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $1.368MM on account of approx. 950 associates getting raises. For comparison’s sake, let’s assume average additional associates costs of $35K (summer bonus of $15K and salary bump of $20K).

White & Case’s PPP adjusted for associate raises and summer bonuses is $2.128MM, a 5.85% decrease, and Morgan Lewis’s adjusted PPP is $1.322MM, a 3.39% decrease. Morgan Lewis equity partners will experience a smaller decrease, although it’s likely that a biglaw partner making $1.4MM/yr would feel a hit of $46K more than a biglaw partner making $2.3MM/yr would feel a hit of $132K.

Importantly, though, White & Case has averaged 5.0 percent increases per year in PPP over the last five years, while Morgan Lewis has averaged 2.7 decreases. So if White & Case continues to grow at the historical rate, partners will hardly feel the effect this year, and given that summer bonuses are unlikely to become regular occurrences, this is blip on the radar for the wallets of White & Case equity partners. The same can’t be said for Morgan Lewis partners.


So what you're saying is my firm should raise my pay already


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NakedPowerOrgan

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby NakedPowerOrgan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
NakedPowerOrgan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:White & Case matches Cravath with bonus (only a good standing requirement)


Firms with middling revenue per lawyers marks like White and Case and MLB matching is a good sign for everyone else.


RPL is probably a more useful metric in general, but PPP (while keeping leverage, total number of associates, and profitability growth in mind) is probably a better indicator for which firms can afford to give raises. Much bigger deal that Morgan Lewis matched than White & Case, which is more comparable to Sidley, Proskauer, etc.

They way I’m thinking about it: At White & Case, approx. 319 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $2.260MM on account of approx. 1206 associates getting raises. At Morgan Lewis, approx. 717 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $1.368MM on account of approx. 950 associates getting raises. For comparison’s sake, let’s assume average additional associates costs of $35K (summer bonus of $15K and salary bump of $20K).

White & Case’s PPP adjusted for associate raises and summer bonuses is $2.128MM, a 5.85% decrease, and Morgan Lewis’s adjusted PPP is $1.322MM, a 3.39% decrease. Morgan Lewis equity partners will experience a smaller decrease, although it’s likely that a biglaw partner making $1.4MM/yr would feel a hit of $46K more than a biglaw partner making $2.3MM/yr would feel a hit of $132K.

Importantly, though, White & Case has averaged 5.0 percent increases per year in PPP over the last five years, while Morgan Lewis has averaged 2.7 decreases. So if White & Case continues to grow at the historical rate, partners will hardly feel the effect this year, and given that summer bonuses are unlikely to become regular occurrences, this is blip on the radar for the wallets of White & Case equity partners. The same can’t be said for Morgan Lewis partners.


So what you're saying is my firm should raise my pay already


If you’re at a firm that’s top 50 in PPP, yeah, probably no reason why they shouldn’t have raised when Morgan Lewis already has.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone heard of match activity at one of the above/off-market scale comp firms (Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Willims & Connolly?).


Wachtell never matched 180k because their comp was already higher. The same is true for the new scale. No need to send out a memo when all associates already get paid well above-market.


This is not accurate; Wachtell did move its base salary. As did Boies and W&C.


W&C especially will have to considering it already was below market.

Consider 4yrs, under current W&C scale they get a 250,000 salary and no bonus.

Cravath is 255 + bonus (60k last year) + 15K summer bonus (~320,000 in total comp this year when accounting for the fact that salary increase was mid year).

That's a pretty huge differential


That’s the old salary scale. Fourth years currently make $285,000.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone heard of match activity at one of the above/off-market scale comp firms (Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Willims & Connolly?).


Wachtell never matched 180k because their comp was already higher. The same is true for the new scale. No need to send out a memo when all associates already get paid well above-market.


This is not accurate; Wachtell did move its base salary. As did Boies and W&C.


W&C especially will have to considering it already was below market.

Consider 4yrs, under current W&C scale they get a 250,000 salary and no bonus.

Cravath is 255 + bonus (60k last year) + 15K summer bonus (~320,000 in total comp this year when accounting for the fact that salary increase was mid year).

That's a pretty huge differential


That’s the old salary scale. Fourth years currently make $285,000.


Nope...re-read any of the salary memos:

2017 (1st year): $190,000
2016 (2nd year): $200,000
2015 (3rd year): $220,000
2014 (4th year): $255,000

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:30 pm

NakedPowerOrgan wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:White & Case matches Cravath with bonus (only a good standing requirement)


Firms with middling revenue per lawyers marks like White and Case and MLB matching is a good sign for everyone else.


RPL is probably a more useful metric in general, but PPP (while keeping leverage, total number of associates, and profitability growth in mind) is probably a better indicator for which firms can afford to give raises. Much bigger deal that Morgan Lewis matched than White & Case, which is more comparable to Sidley, Proskauer, etc.

They way I’m thinking about it: At White & Case, approx. 319 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $2.260MM on account of approx. 1206 associates getting raises. At Morgan Lewis, approx. 717 equity partners have to take a hit to their profits per partner of $1.368MM on account of approx. 950 associates getting raises. For comparison’s sake, let’s assume average additional associates costs of $35K (summer bonus of $15K and salary bump of $20K).

White & Case’s PPP adjusted for associate raises and summer bonuses is $2.128MM, a 5.85% decrease, and Morgan Lewis’s adjusted PPP is $1.322MM, a 3.39% decrease. Morgan Lewis equity partners will experience a smaller decrease, although it’s likely that a biglaw partner making $1.4MM/yr would feel a hit of $46K more than a biglaw partner making $2.3MM/yr would feel a hit of $132K.

Importantly, though, White & Case has averaged 5.0 percent increases per year in PPP over the last five years, while Morgan Lewis has averaged 2.7 decreases. So if White & Case continues to grow at the historical rate, partners will hardly feel the effect this year, and given that summer bonuses are unlikely to become regular occurrences, this is blip on the radar for the wallets of White & Case equity partners. The same can’t be said for Morgan Lewis partners.


Not to derail, but this math is based on a bad assumption about White & Case: that it’s predominantly American. Less than half the firm’s attorneys are US-based — nowhere near 1200.

As an aside, this also cuts to the firm’s PPP, which likely understates the profitability attributable to the US partnership.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anyone heard of match activity at one of the above/off-market scale comp firms (Wachtell, Boies Schiller, Willims & Connolly?).


Wachtell never matched 180k because their comp was already higher. The same is true for the new scale. No need to send out a memo when all associates already get paid well above-market.


This is not accurate; Wachtell did move its base salary. As did Boies and W&C.


W&C especially will have to considering it already was below market.

Consider 4yrs, under current W&C scale they get a 250,000 salary and no bonus.

Cravath is 255 + bonus (60k last year) + 15K summer bonus (~320,000 in total comp this year when accounting for the fact that salary increase was mid year).

That's a pretty huge differential


That’s the old salary scale. Fourth years currently make $285,000.


Nope...re-read any of the salary memos:

2017 (1st year): $190,000
2016 (2nd year): $200,000
2015 (3rd year): $220,000
2014 (4th year): $255,000


I think you’re confusing Williams & Connolly and White & Case. The former has been at 200k for first years since spring 2015 and got a new raise for all years above first this past January.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:38 pm

good thing we all anonymous or that guy woulda looked like an idiot

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:38 pm

.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:55 pm

Come on King & Spalding.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Come on King & Spalding.


I agree that raises in Atlanta would be just peachy, but at the moment the scale hasn't moved south of Philadelphia. Come on DC...

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:04 pm

Patiently waiting for Dallas/Houston to jump on this ship. Come on BB/VE....

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NakedPowerOrgan

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby NakedPowerOrgan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:30 pm

Wall of Shame (listed from most shame to least shame, based on PPP, firm’s growth over recent years, and ability to pay bonuses and raises):

    Fried Frank
    Latham
    Paul Hastings
    Akin Gump
    King & Spalding
    Vinson & Elkins
    Shearman & Sterling
    Gibson Dunn
    Dechert
    Wilmer
    Schulte
    Cooley
    Kramer Levin
    Baker Botts
    Alton & Bird
    Sheppard Mullin
    McDermott

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Pulsar » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Come on King & Spalding.


They'll probably raise. They and most of the legacy DC firms will have to, since Kirkland/Gibson/Latham etc. either have raised or will raise.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:34 pm

NakedPowerOrgan wrote:Wall of Shame (listed from most shame to least shame, based on PPP, firm’s growth over recent years, and ability to pay bonuses and raises):

    Fried Frank
    Latham
    Paul Hastings
    Akin Gump
    King & Spalding
    Vinson & Elkins
    Shearman & Sterling
    Gibson Dunn
    Dechert
    Wilmer
    Schulte
    Cooley
    Kramer Levin
    Baker Botts
    Alton & Bird
    Sheppard Mullin
    McDermott


Fried Frank just matched (see ATL).

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby NakedPowerOrgan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:39 pm

NakedPowerOrgan wrote:Wall of Shame (listed from most shame to least shame, based on PPP, firm’s growth over recent years, and ability to pay bonuses and raises):

    Fried Frank
    Latham
    Paul Hastings
    Akin Gump
    King & Spalding
    Vinson & Elkins
    Shearman & Sterling
    Gibson Dunn
    Dechert
    Wilmer
    Schulte
    Cooley
    Kramer Levin
    Baker Botts
    Alton & Bird
    Sheppard Mullin
    McDermott

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:47 pm

It's outright laughable that Latham hasn't matched yet

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's outright laughable that Latham hasn't matched yet


^This. It's almost like they know a lot of firms are waiting for them before matching and they want an upper-hand during OCI so they'll wait to match until the day before bids are due.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:55 pm

BB and V&E must match pretty soon. They are facing plenty of competition in Houston in Dallas from firms that have already matched. Many summer associates split between BB/V&E and firms that have already matched.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:57 pm

NakedPowerOrgan wrote:
NakedPowerOrgan wrote:Wall of Shame (listed from most shame to least shame, based on PPP, firm’s growth over recent years, and ability to pay bonuses and raises):

    Fried Frank
    Latham
    Paul Hastings
    CovingTTTon
    Hogan Lovells
    A&P
    Akin Gump
    King & Spalding
    Vinson & Elkins
    Shearman & Sterling
    Gibson Dunn
    Dechert
    Wilmer
    Schulte
    Cooley
    Kramer Levin
    Baker Botts
    Alton & Bird
    Sheppard Mullin
    McDermott


How can you make a list of shame and leave off CovingTTTon and the rest of the DC native firms?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby NakedPowerOrgan » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's outright laughable that Latham hasn't matched yet


Same for Paul Hastings. Similar PPP, stronger profit growth over the last few years, better partner/associate leverage, and has around a third of the associates that Latham has (seems like it should be psychologically easier for PH management to make an $18MM raise/bonus decision than Latham management to make a $50MM decision).

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:09 pm

Latham might be at its summer retreat, no?



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