NYC to 200k Forum

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:08 pm

im super jealous of all the people at covington with no hours requirement

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: Right? I'm sure most firms without requirements do so because it's next to impossible to not hit 1900 or 2000. Anon(s) that hates billable hours requirements: on average are you below 2k hours at year end?
There's a reason why most firms don't have that requirement any more. Too TTT
Great job answering the question. Arguing that something is TTT is perhaps the best way to counter a logical question.
You and some folks like billable hour requirements? No problem. Keep loving it!
I wouldn't want it in my life and I am pretty sure many others wouldn't want it. Hence, the trend among major firms has been to move away from that requirement.

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/associa ... d-bonuses/

Also, if you are in a firm with an assignment pooling system for juniors, juniors don't have much control over their hours. Still, a 1800 hours target definitely isn't particularly difficult to meet, especially if pro bono or marketing hours are included. But those requirements would still be a source of stress when you have absolutely no control over how much work you get.
Almost all of the Chicago-based firms, save Kirkland, and including most national firms with offices there (Skadden, Latham) have an hours requirement according to your list.

The associates don't love hours requirements but it's a stretch to say an hours requirement isn't in line with market practice for places like Chicago and Houston.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:12 pm

id personally rather be at a place that has a bonus threshold, but also pays out above market bonuses as you hit various thresholds. that seems preferable to billing 2800 at S&C to make less than some dickhead at cadwalader billing the same.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:14 pm

I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
im watching all three world cup games every day

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
im watching all three world cup games every day
No spoilers... I'm DVRing them for after work.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
At a firm with no billable requirement, you just don't think about hours at all. You are busy or you are not busy. That's all. Perhaps it's different for Wachtell, but there's no NYC firm that makes you work so much all the time that you literally have no life. There are some months where you absolutely have no life to be sure. But other times, it's not as bad and you do have some free time.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
At a firm with no billable requirement, you just don't think about hours at all. You are busy or you are not busy. That's all. Perhaps it's different for Wachtell, but there's no NYC firm that makes you work so much all the time that you literally no life. There are some months where you absolutely have no life to be sure. But other times, it's not as bad and you do have some free time.
I happen to agree with the first anon here because that's what I know. I'm going to be well over my minimum this year, so I have no shame in stepping out early when I can. Even so, sometimes I feel uneasy when others are more buy than me, so it's nice knowing that I'm meeting expectations. If I didn't have the threshold I think I'd be more nervous about what's expected of me (or if my work is being valued), even if it's unspoken.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by LaLiLuLeLo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:35 pm

No hours requirement here. Billed well under 2k. Full boneus.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:43 pm

Losing hope for OMM...

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Mayer Brown matched raises and bonuses. you need 1900 prorated hours by the end of June and if you don't hit it now but hit it end of year, they'll include it in your year-end bonus.
What about incoming associates? Will they be on the 180 or 190 scale?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:50 pm

Shut the fuck up.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:51 pm

At an hours requirement firm. Billed 1450 last year and got 90% bonus. Took all my vacation time.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Losing hope for OMM...
Welcome to the transcontinental pity party with all us DC associates.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At an hours requirement firm. Billed 1450 last year and got 90% bonus. Took all my vacation time.
Same. But got no bonused.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
At a firm with no billable requirement, you just don't think about hours at all. You are busy or you are not busy. That's all. Perhaps it's different for Wachtell, but there's no NYC firm that makes you work so much all the time that you literally have no life. There are some months where you absolutely have no life to be sure. But other times, it's not as bad and you do have some free time.
This is correct.

The average associate in nyc V5 is not billing 2400 in my experience. As an associate at S&C, we are shown figures by firm management that average associate hours are around 1700-1800 (which is less than average partner billables). I personally billed 1750 as a 3rd year and got full bonus, no comment at all about hours in reviews. This is not atypical. At Skadden I would have gotten no bonus, which would have sucked.

Obviously there are people who get crushed but remember sometimes it’s your fault if you don’t step off the treadmill. Being at a no minimum firm is highly, highly preferable.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At an hours requirement firm. Billed 1450 last year and got 90% bonus. Took all my vacation time.
Same. But got no bonused.
Anon from above. I would have been fine getting no bonus. Ask anyone here if they'd trade 20k of pre-tax comp for 550 less hours billed. Almost everyone would take it. Gonna weasel my way to lasting another year here and then gtfo of this awful industry.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
im watching all three world cup games every day
This. And I'll keep doing it until my TTT firm matches.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At an hours requirement firm. Billed 1450 last year and got 90% bonus. Took all my vacation time.
Same. But got no bonused.
I was just shy of bonus by ~50 hours and got zero.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:At an hours requirement firm. Billed 1450 last year and got 90% bonus. Took all my vacation time.
Same. But got no bonused.
I was just shy of bonus by ~50 hours and got zero.
Skadden’s state of the firm said average associate billables (including permitted marketing / pro bono etc) were 1750. Skadden’s bonus threshold is 1800. I think people here are underestimating how many people get screwed.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think that the best for associates is having a low hours requirement, like 1900. Super easy to hit, and if I am way over pace I can spend days or weeks with a light workload billing 3-4 hours a day and not feeling pressured to frantically search for more work. If there was no requirement, I think the expectation would be “why are you barely working? This is a work day do something.” But with a low requirement people are like “oh damn on pace for 2,300? Yeah, enjoy this slow time when you can!”

I’m totally speculating here, but that’s how I would picture it.
At a firm with no billable requirement, you just don't think about hours at all. You are busy or you are not busy. That's all. Perhaps it's different for Wachtell, but there's no NYC firm that makes you work so much all the time that you literally have no life. There are some months where you absolutely have no life to be sure. But other times, it's not as bad and you do have some free time.
This is correct.

The average associate in nyc V5 is not billing 2400 in my experience. As an associate at S&C, we are shown figures by firm management that average associate hours are around 1700-1800 (which is less than average partner billables). I personally billed 1750 as a 3rd year and got full bonus, no comment at all about hours in reviews. This is not atypical. At Skadden I would have gotten no bonus, which would have sucked.

Obviously there are people who get crushed but remember sometimes it’s your fault if you don’t step off the treadmill. Being at a no minimum firm is highly, highly preferable.
if u were at skadden, you coulda billed 50 to pro bono and got your bonus. for all intents and purposes, that's the same.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Losing hope for OMM...
OMM will match. I feel like OMM's rep has already lost some cache (my baby boomer FIL talks about OMM like it's Gibson Dunn or Latham). But PPP is still high even though declining. I just don't think OMM wants to resign itself to second-tier status.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Losing hope for OMM...
OMM will match. I feel like OMM's rep has already lost some cache (my baby boomer FIL talks about OMM like it's Gibson Dunn or Latham). But PPP is still high even though declining. I just don't think OMM wants to resign itself to second-tier status.
I think OMM views Latham and Gibson as peer firms, so I wouldn't be shocked if we see a match from OMM soon.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Losing hope for OMM...
OMM will match. I feel like OMM's rep has already lost some cache (my baby boomer FIL talks about OMM like it's Gibson Dunn or Latham). But PPP is still high even though declining. I just don't think OMM wants to resign itself to second-tier status.
I think OMM views Latham and Gibson as peer firms, so I wouldn't be shocked if we see a match from OMM soon.
I would be shocked to see a match from Latham soon. Where the hell are those guys?

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Re: NYC to 200k

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
This is correct.

The average associate in nyc V5 is not billing 2400 in my experience. As an associate at S&C, we are shown figures by firm management that average associate hours are around 1700-1800 (which is less than average partner billables). I personally billed 1750 as a 3rd year and got full bonus, no comment at all about hours in reviews. This is not atypical. At Skadden I would have gotten no bonus, which would have sucked.

Obviously there are people who get crushed but remember sometimes it’s your fault if you don’t step off the treadmill. Being at a no minimum firm is highly, highly preferable.
I get the feeling that reported averages include laterals, people who took time a large amount of time off (maternity leave or otherwise), people on part time arrangements, etc. Wonder if they even count stub years. I don't think they're at all representative of what a typical associate would bill over the course of 12 months.

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