NYC to 200k

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 2L from HYS here: from talking to a bunch of other rising 2Ls after a firm reception in NY earlier this week, the non-matching firms are slowly but surely lowering themselves in the eyes of biglaw-aspiring students creating their bidlists.

FYI, V5!


I'd roll my eyes at you but I'm laughing too hard.


Lol... What you essentially said "I'm an elite HYS student, and my HYS friends and I are not bidding non-190 firms, so they're going to drop in revenue substantially because us HYS'ers will not consider their firms!''


Elite law school kids are the lifeblood of top New York law firms. Look up the summer classes for firms like Davis, Cleary, Cravath, Debevoise, STB, Paul[,] Weiss. Three schools are 40 to 60% of the entire class. If graduates of HLS/CLS/NYU stop going to them, they're gonna be very upset. (They can't often get YLS/SLS grads.). Schools like Duke/Georgetown/Virginia matter much, much less.


NYU is not an elite law school. Try again.


Isn't NYU a public school?

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Wild Card

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Wild Card » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Rising 2L from HYS here: from talking to a bunch of other rising 2Ls after a firm reception in NY earlier this week, the non-matching firms are slowly but surely lowering themselves in the eyes of biglaw-aspiring students creating their bidlists.

FYI, V5!


I'd roll my eyes at you but I'm laughing too hard.


Lol... What you essentially said "I'm an elite HYS student, and my HYS friends and I are not bidding non-190 firms, so they're going to drop in revenue substantially because us HYS'ers will not consider their firms!''


Elite law school kids are the lifeblood of top New York law firms. Look up the summer classes for firms like Davis, Cleary, Cravath, Debevoise, STB, Paul[,] Weiss. Three schools are 40 to 60% of the entire class. If graduates of HLS/CLS/NYU stop going to them, they're gonna be very upset. (They can't often get YLS/SLS grads.). Schools like Duke/Georgetown/Virginia matter much, much less.


NYU is not an elite law school. Try again.


Grades matter more than law school rank anyway. Just lol @ thinking a median HLS student is gonna be better than a magna Cornell kid. The difference between a median HLS kid and a median UVA kid is like 0.1 uGPA and 2-3 pts on the LSAT.


You're trolling, but I will seize any chance to shit on farthest Cornell. The 75th percentile Cornell enrollee is 168/3.88. The median HLS enrollee is 173/3.86. Magna Cornell would be around median at HLS: I'd say that they're equal.

Magna NYU would be around cum laude HLS.

Bottom line, every law school is shit besides Yale. Honorable mention to SLS for its weather and fancy dorms.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:32 pm

ATL updated its S&C post.

UPDATE: Seniors may even be beating the market in some places — a class of ’09 associate reported $360K.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Somewhat but not nearly as bad as at NYU.


You think NYU fetishizes biglaw more than CLS? Just lol


That person must go to such a TTT he doesn't even know an NYU grad or a CLS grad. Rare to meet an NYU grad with a bad attitude, and rare to meet a CLS grad with a good one.


Funny, but I went to H/Y/S/Chicago (won’t say which one to protect anonymity) and summered at a V8 last summer, so I know plenty of grads from other schools.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby bruinfan10 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:50 pm

Now I understand why this thread is complete trash. You’re all baby law students.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:

Somewhat but not nearly as bad as at NYU.


You think NYU fetishizes biglaw more than CLS? Just lol


That person must go to such a TTT he doesn't even know an NYU grad or a CLS grad. Rare to meet an NYU grad with a bad attitude, and rare to meet a CLS grad with a good one.


Funny, but I went to Chicago .


There we go.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:16 pm

CLS grads angry they wasted their 3 year law school vacation in the middle of nowhere surrounded by awful people only to be rewarded with biglaw

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:CLS grads angry they wasted their 3 year law school vacation in the middle of nowhere surrounded by awful people only to be rewarded with biglaw


I almost feel bad that I coasted in college, took it relatively easy at a T40 law school, work less hours and make more than them working at TX firm. But then, I remember, I'm only middle class, so I shouldn't really feel bad for others. Haven't gotten to that level yet.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:CLS grads angry they wasted their 3 year law school vacation in the middle of nowhere surrounded by awful people only to be rewarded with biglaw


I almost feel bad that I coasted in college, took it relatively easy at a T40 law school, work less hours and make more than them working at TX firm. But then, I remember, I'm only middle class, so I shouldn't really feel bad for others. Haven't gotten to that level yet.


Oh no, we're in for the NY-has-bodegas conversation again.

In other news, I wonder when we'll hear from the Kirkland/Latham modeled firms. Sidley attorney wondering re bonus match here...

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:CLS grads angry they wasted their 3 year law school vacation in the middle of nowhere surrounded by awful people only to be rewarded with biglaw


I almost feel bad that I coasted in college, took it relatively easy at a T40 law school, work less hours and make more than them working at TX firm. But then, I remember, I'm only middle class, so I shouldn't really feel bad for others. Haven't gotten to that level yet.


Yeah but if you don't have prestige you have nothing. Aren't you embarrassed when you tell people where you went to school? Even the worst kid at Harvard gets auto-respect from 99% of the population.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:TBF I'd probably turn down Williams & Connolly for most V10 firms.

I'd take Keker/MTO/Susman over any V10 firm in a heartbeat. I'd take Bartlit Beck over any of those, not billing hours is GOAT.

These firms command top talent because law students can live off of prestige. And some pay above market. Kellogg's starting salary is 225k.

Also, what's with all the salty people ITT who couldn't get interviews/callbacks at lit boutiques lmao.


Not only does Kellogg pay 225k but their clerk bonus is 175k. I imagine productivity dropped in many chambers besides ours when that recruitment letter arrived, at least until everyone realized they didn’t really have a shot anyway.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:00 pm

When are flood gates going to open, or are matches just going to trickle in for weeks?

I feel like only 3 matches isn't much for 2 days after the Cravath announcement.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:CLS grads angry they wasted their 3 year law school vacation in the middle of nowhere surrounded by awful people only to be rewarded with biglaw


I almost feel bad that I coasted in college, took it relatively easy at a T40 law school, work less hours and make more than them working at TX firm. But then, I remember, I'm only middle class, so I shouldn't really feel bad for others. Haven't gotten to that level yet.

No, you'd be middle class in NY, but you're almost certainly upper-middle class in TX.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:When are flood gates going to open, or are matches just going to trickle in for weeks?

I feel like only 3 matches isn't much for 2 days after the Cravath announcement.


I'm not sure why the V10 isn't moving faster. I feel like firms further down the rankings (and profitability scale) are trying to wait to see where the cutoff for summer bonuses ends up. Or maybe just waiting until after June 29 so that the problem solves itself.

ternarydaemon

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby ternarydaemon » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm

As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:41 pm

ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).


TLDR: CLS alumni are elitist, TX sucks and should get paid less, and Bodegas are awesome. WHERE'S OUR MONEY

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:48 pm

ternarydaemon wrote:As other posters have already told so, the relationship between big-law and the top 14 schools is still quite stable in number of job openings vs amount of graduates. This 190k is basically for one year of training and talent retention; thus, considering that these firms bill hundreds of millions, and some billions of dollars a year, 190k is just another cost.

If you factor in inflation from 2016, when it went to 180k from 160k in 2007, salaries have barely kept up, and have not increased nominally in 11 years. Of course, this 190k per year is only applicable to a niche of the legal profession, and not in general.

Of course, a 26 year old just out of post-graduate school is not worth 190k per year. If you extrapolate it to the rest of the legal market, in reality these people are working three 65k jobs in a year. In order to get to 2000 or more billable hours, you need to work 12 hours per day, almost every day of the year. So in reality, big-law junior associates are indeed worth more than the average 40k per year, cookie-cuter junior associate from the rest of the 200 or so schools; worth double actually, though they are forced to work harder and longer than almost everybody else.

In the real world, there are dozens of alternative legal providers that offer (almost) the same service at a fraction of the cost, but the value that people adscribe to things is not always logical. This is why people still buy gold, jewelry, designer clothing and Swiss watches: these items range from completely useless to easily replaceable by cheaper, practical and more durable goods. Big law is the same, except for the very top white-shoe areas of the very, very top firms (clue: the top 15, not the other 75 or so big law firms).


I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 pm

Westchester county and southern connecticut is in the house here for sure

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.


You god damn monster. Of course we deserve weekends.

70% conversion rate as a first year is really good for some groups. It really is group dependent.

It's better to look at Midlevels. Most midlevels, hopefully, get to around 85-90% conversion rate, especially in this economy. The real key comes in how you deal with your procrastination because no one can stay attentive 24/5 all week every second for years at a time. If you fail at this, your conversion rate will plummet.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm sure others will poke holes in the rest of your argument, but I'm really confused as to how 12 hours per day is required to hit 2k hours. Even assuming that this hypothetical first year takes a month of vacation, that's still (11/12)*365*12=4,015 hours a year. I can't imagine first years are at only 50% conversion of hours to billables. Even if you're assuming they take weekends too, that's still (11/12)*(5//7)*365*12=2,868 hours a year. That's assuming a 70% conversion rate which is still low to get to your 2k hours.

Anecdotally, I'm a first year at a V30 that's billing at a rate of >2300 a year and has only worked two or three weekends this year (and I've taken a vacation!). I spend 12 or so hours a day in the office 3-4 days a week, but this is a far cry from your 12 hours a day almost every day of the year.


You god damn monster. Of course we deserve weekends.

70% conversion rate as a first year is really good for some groups. It really is group dependent.

It's better to look at Midlevels. Most midlevels, hopefully, get to around 85-90% conversion rate, especially in this economy. The real key comes in how you deal with your procrastination because no one can stay attentive 24/5 all week every second for years at a time. If you fail at this, your conversion rate will plummet.


Original first year anon here. I'll get my conversion rate up if... NYC GOES TO $200K LETS GO SKADDEN/LATHAM/KIRKLAND!!!

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:02 am

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


ur trolling

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Great question, and your sincerity is obvious so no need to worry that others will regard your post as unserious.

The TL;DR is that associates as a group widely expect 200k and corresponding raises up the seniority scale and anything less will invariably be viewed as a middle finger to the middle class working folk grinding away at these firms.

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Re: NYC to 200k

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****

Has anyone been monitoring this thread from page 1? My firm's Chief Operating Officer just emailed me and asked for a max 1,500 word summary of the key points by 8AM tomorrow for a meeting. Hoping to get this done in the next hour and a half. Obviously I'll include the list of firms that raised and matched, along with any differences in the group. Are there any other points I should include? TYIA.

If you're not able to reply by 1:30AM please share your thoughts nonetheless I'll recheck at 6:30AM tomorrow.

This is not flame.

*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****PLEASE READ*****


Tell him to prioritize hiring Yale/Columbia grads and to cut TX office salaries to fund your raise for your high CoL offices (SF/NYC/DC).


I am not to editorialize in any way. He just wants the key points from this thread for his meeting. I'm flipping through it and think I'm getting most things.



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