White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

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White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:28 pm

Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


So I can only speak to Kirkland, but during a recession they will put you in restructuring to make up your hours. I imagine Weil is the same. KE also has super high revenue per lawyer, which means you'll probably be more profitable, and less likely to be fired during a recession. I'd personally take the V10. Others may think differently.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Lincoln » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


So I can only speak to Kirkland, but during a recession they will put you in restructuring to make up your hours. I imagine Weil is the same. KE also has super high revenue per lawyer, which means you'll probably be more profitable, and less likely to be fired during a recession. I'd personally take the V10. Others may think differently.


You do know that this is basically just a function of high billable hours per associate, right?

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


Congrats on two offers, would you mind sharing your story about how you got two offers as a 3L? did you summer at one of these firms as a 2L?

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby deepseapartners » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:45 pm

Really depends on the V10. Each firm has their own culture and some are worse than others, so if you are functionally making a choice between culture and headline prestige, that depends on (a) what the other culture is and (b) what you want to get out of your time in Biglaw.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:04 pm

Lincoln wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


So I can only speak to Kirkland, but during a recession they will put you in restructuring to make up your hours. I imagine Weil is the same. KE also has super high revenue per lawyer, which means you'll probably be more profitable, and less likely to be fired during a recession. I'd personally take the V10. Others may think differently.


You do know that this is basically just a function of high billable hours per associate, right?


My mentor was a senior associate in the Chicago office. He estimated about 2200 hours average for M&A, 2000 for everyone else, including himself and his group. (I'm sure the NYC office bills more). Obviously people often bill more whether by choice or not, but it's hardly just pure billable hours, it's also a higher rate for those hours. I highly doubt Kirkland, which has revenue per lawyer of 1.5 million, is billing 80 percent more per lawyer than White & Case, at 835,000 RPL. And when you're at the exact same salary at both firms, being at the firm where you're bringing in more revenue makes you more likely to keep your job, which is OP's concern.

I'll add the caveat that your argument is far more accurate comparing KE to peer firms like DPW or GDC. Those firms have RPL's about 200,000 lower, and since billable rates are almost certainly not that different, it probably means you're going to bill less at Davis Polk or Gibson compared to Kirkland. It's not a great comparison when it comes to a firm like White & Case.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:44 pm

Congratulations. Would you mind sharing your stats or any tips you may have for a fellow 3L?

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:51 pm

If i'm not mistaken, I've always understood Kirkland's RPL strength to stem from its model with respect to non-equity partners. If they're gunning to make equity partner, then they may be going above and beyond on hours, and the firm can bill them out as partners.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby magnum_law » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:17 am

I may be totally out of line here, but I've always heard that White & Case is generally a shitty place to work -- equated to the likes of Cadwalader or Dechert. Might be worth looking into?

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby cookiejar1 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:If i'm not mistaken, I've always understood Kirkland's RPL strength to stem from its model with respect to non-equity partners. If they're gunning to make equity partner, then they may be going above and beyond on hours, and the firm can bill them out as partners.


Isn’t it just a function of how RPL is calculated? Kirkland’s leverage numbers are actually really good because NSPs are considered “partners” by AmLaw. As such, it probably means that AmLaw is taking Kirkland’s revenue and just dividing it among the number of associates (i.e., only 5th year associates and below). NSPs bill just like associates do but they’re not counted in the denominator.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby spha12 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


If "think-Kirkland/Weil" means it is Kirkland or Weil then go with that. If it means another place then I don't know. I doubt White and Case "diversity" is better than those firms other than maybe more of an international flavor in the work you'd get. In terms of a recession, it's nothing you can really plan for, but I'd say this -- when the next recession happens bankruptcy will be on the rise and Kirkland and Weil will profit.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:04 am

cookiejar1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If i'm not mistaken, I've always understood Kirkland's RPL strength to stem from its model with respect to non-equity partners. If they're gunning to make equity partner, then they may be going above and beyond on hours, and the firm can bill them out as partners.


Isn’t it just a function of how RPL is calculated? Kirkland’s leverage numbers are actually really good because NSPs are considered “partners” by AmLaw. As such, it probably means that AmLaw is taking Kirkland’s revenue and just dividing it among the number of associates (i.e., only 5th year associates and below). NSPs bill just like associates do but they’re not counted in the denominator.


Pretty sure revenue per lawyer is all lawyers, partners + counsel + associates.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Graybrow » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:07 am

spha12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi Everyone, I'm a 3L currently choosing between offers for an entry-level position at White & Case (NY) or a V10 (NYC-think Kirkland/Weil). I'm mainly interested in transactional work, specifically m&a, private equity, and real estate. What would people choose? I liked the diversity at White & Case, but the rankings, deal volume, and "prestige" all point to the other firm. Moreover, I'm concerned about a future recession. White & Case did layoff hundreds in the 08 recession, and they have this plan to grow a lot by 2020, which I'm worried could lead to big layoffs if a recession comes along.
Thanks!


If "think-Kirkland/Weil" means it is Kirkland or Weil then go with that. If it means another place then I don't know. I doubt White and Case "diversity" is better than those firms other than maybe more of an international flavor in the work you'd get. In terms of a recession, it's nothing you can really plan for, but I'd say this -- when the next recession happens bankruptcy will be on the rise and Kirkland and Weil will profit.


This

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:15 pm

.

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:17 pm

magnum_law wrote:I may be totally out of line here, but I've always heard that White & Case is generally a shitty place to work -- equated to the likes of Cadwalader or Dechert. Might be worth looking into?



Can anyone speak to this?

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Re: White & Case (NYC) vs. V10 (NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:53 am

Def V10.



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