Classes

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Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:23 am

As a 2L picking classes right now... how much do potential summer employers care what I take? Do they want to see a full semester or do they not really care? Should I just focus on what's best for my GPA?

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UVA2B

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Re: Classes

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:24 am

Nope, they don't care.

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Re: Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:29 am

UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests

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UVA2B

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Re: Classes

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.

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Re: Classes

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:54 am

I think the only exception to the "no one cares" rule is that I've heard of multiple federal judges wanting to see Fed Courts and Evidence (or hear that you're taking them in 3L).

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CaptainLeela

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Welcome to TLS

Postby CaptainLeela » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:33 pm

Welcome to TLS

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Mullens

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Re: Classes

Postby Mullens » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:03 pm

I’m a junior corporate/transactional attorney in biglaw. While the firm as a whole doesn’t care what you take, it’s very helpful/somewhat expected for you to have taken securities regulation in law school if you want to do any capital markets work. It’s just such a big learning curve where having learned the basics in law school is almost necessary. I also place corporations and fed income tax in that category for M&A.

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BaiAilian2013

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Re: Classes

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:05 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.

Another exception to this is that a knowledge-heavy niche group like tax, ECEB, or T&E might be mildly pleased to see relevant courses. And in the unusual situation where I as the interviewer happen to know that your school has lots of relevant courses, I personally would be put off if your schedule is filled up with a bunch of random other shit. For any of this to matter, someone in that group would have to be interviewing you (or on the hiring committee), but that's fairly likely at the callback stage if you've expressed an interest.

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Re: Classes

Postby Mullens » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:13 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.

Another exception to this is that a knowledge-heavy niche group like tax, ECEB, or T&E might be mildly pleased to see relevant courses. And in the unusual situation where I as the interviewer happen to know that your school has lots of relevant courses, I personally would be put off if your schedule is filled up with a bunch of random other shit. For any of this to matter, someone in that group would have to be interviewing you (or on the hiring committee), but that's fairly likely at the callback stage if you've expressed an interest.


I also want to clarify that this and my post above are more applicable to 3L hiring, post-grad hiring, and what the attorneys you work with will expect when you start. No one cares during 2L OCI what you took as your one or two 1L electives except to the extent it explains or is Part of your narrative of why you want to work in a niche practice group.

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Re: Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:51 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.


So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?

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Re: Classes

Postby UVA2B » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.


So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?


I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.

mcmand

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Re: Classes

Postby mcmand » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:05 am

Just based on my first few months working at a firm, it helped to take a couple classes related to my practice groups. Not because anyone cared but because the learning curve is steep as it is, and having a passing familiarity makes getting up to speed less painful.

You don't need to stack your schedule though. A couple relevant classes will do. Everything else can be whatever you want.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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pancakes3

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Re: Classes

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:58 am

upperclass course selection is art, not science.

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Re: Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:37 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.


So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?


I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.


Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?

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Re: Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.


So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?


I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.


Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?


^ bump (for T13)

sparkytrainer

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Re: Classes

Postby sparkytrainer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Nope, they don't care.


How do we feel about classes totally random to your career interests


If we're talking Big firm hiring, then just take the number of credits required to graduate on time. They won't care that you took classes somehow related to the practice group you think you might be joining.


So you're saying firms don't mind if you take several seminars that are graded more easily than lectures?


I mean, it at least partly depends on the practice area, as you saw in the other responses. It's unlikely firms will care that the seminars you take are graded easier, but there is at least marginal value in taking classes that are in the vein of the practice area you want to break in. It has nothing to do with the grades or how easily it's graded. Most of the doctrinal courses you can take that will be informative in major practice areas (cap markets: securities, corporate tax: tax, etc.) will hopefully give you the vocabulary for that practice area more than any amount of expertise. It allows you to adapt to the learning curve for the actual practice area when you get there.


Does this apply to 3L OCI as well?


^ bump (for T13)


3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.

runinthefront

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Re: Classes

Postby runinthefront » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:15 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.

This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.

3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sparkytrainer

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Re: Classes

Postby sparkytrainer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:24 pm

runinthefront wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.

This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.

3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"


have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l oci

runinthefront

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Re: Classes

Postby runinthefront » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:29 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.

This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.

3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"


have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l oci

I've seen enough over the past two years from my rather small T13 to know that a person's shot is not essentially 0%

It's uncommon to land a biglaw job after not summering as a 2L. But 3L OCI is not rare enough to claim that "it's no longer a thing." If a person has the grades (and the school), they can land interviews and offers.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mcmand

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Re: Classes

Postby mcmand » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:37 pm

Out of the four first years (including me) at my firm, three were 3L hires. It's not impossible. It's just unpredictable.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Classes

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:38 pm

runinthefront wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:3L OCI isn't a thing anymore unfortunately. The chances of getting a biglaw gig from "3L OCI" if you didn't have a summer associate job as a 2L is essentially 0%. There are rare cases where it happens, but yeah its no longer a thing.

This isn't true, but yet this still gets repeated over and over on TLS.

3L hiring for large firms is a crapshoot, but not summering at a firm your 2L year does not render your shot "essentially 0%"


have you seen much 3L oci hiring the last 2 years? Because there hasn't been. There used to be in the past, but over the last 2 years with smaller classes, it is a rare exception to get a biglaw gig from 3l oci

I've seen enough over the past two years from my rather small T13 to know that a person's shot is not essentially 0%

It's uncommon to land a biglaw job after not summering as a 2L. But 3L OCI is not rare enough to claim that "it's no longer a thing." If a person has the grades (and the school), they can land interviews and offers.


Would having 8/26 credits in seminars for 2L year look slack for 3L OCI? I haven't done a survey of my T13, but it seems like 8 credits in either some easy-curve clinic/practical work or seminar is the norm for 2L anyway so I don't see that a firm would mind but just wanna double check

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pancakes3

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Re: Classes

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:46 pm

clinic is by no means easy. the grade is cush but you're signing up for a shit ton of work.

same goes for writing classes. if you think cramming for an exam is bad - trying to pull 40 pages out of your ass is twice as bad, if not worse.

this isn't to say that there aren't easy electives but you should ask around a little bit before jumping to conclusions.



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