Havard/Stanford LP/RC

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Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:38 pm

I'm at one of the two above. I received one of the above grades. I'm under the impression this is extremely rare and, therefore, probably very damning. I'll be talking to career services soon, but I'd really appreciate any experience, insight, or comfort anyone on here can offer. In the absence of an otherwise stellar transcript, is finding even an okay big law job going to be a struggle? I'm basically giving up on the more competitive PI things I was interested in. I understand that I'm in a privileged position and the impulse to minimize this is valid given that, but please be sensitive to the fact that I feel as though my life was just changed quite drastically for the worse.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 pm

I work for a legal employer with Biglaw-equivalent hiring standards. Over the last couple years, we've hired at least one H/S alum with an LP/RC. It's not a scarlet letter. But you should overcorrect, and the short-run impacts will be highest.

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Mullens

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Mullens » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at one of the two above. I received one of the above grades. I'm under the impression this is extremely rare and, therefore, probably very damning. I'll be talking to career services soon, but I'd really appreciate any experience, insight, or comfort anyone on here can offer. In the absence of an otherwise stellar transcript, is finding even an okay big law job going to be a struggle? I'm basically giving up on the more competitive PI things I was interested in. I understand that I'm in a privileged position and the impulse to minimize this is valid given that, but please be sensitive to the fact that I feel as though my life was just changed quite drastically for the worse.


It’s closed fewer doors than you think. Sure it’s now highly unlikely you clerk for SCOTUS or work at Wachtell but it’s not the kiss of death or scarlet letter you think it is. Work your ass off this semester to figure out what went wrong and how to fix it. Of all the places to get a bad grade, you’re at one of the best two. You’ll be fine.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:54 pm

HYS grad currently clerking; I agree with the above posters. It's not fatal to your future. If you have good grades otherwise (i.e., not straight P's) I'm inclined to think a lot of employers will give you the benefit of the doubt and write it off as an aberration.

Now if you end up with more than one, it's probably a different story. But one won't ruin your life.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at one of the two above. I received one of the above grades. I'm under the impression this is extremely rare and, therefore, probably very damning. I'll be talking to career services soon, but I'd really appreciate any experience, insight, or comfort anyone on here can offer. In the absence of an otherwise stellar transcript, is finding even an okay big law job going to be a struggle? I'm basically giving up on the more competitive PI things I was interested in. I understand that I'm in a privileged position and the impulse to minimize this is valid given that, but please be sensitive to the fact that I feel as though my life was just changed quite drastically for the worse.


I know someone at one of Harvard/Stanford who got that grade in a 1L course and got an appellate clerkship on the DC Circuit, one of the most competitive and prestigious clerkship positions in the country. So don't despair! (Also, for what it's worth: don't think you don't get the material just because you got that grade. Grades don't necessarily indicate comprehension of the subject matter, as professors themselves admit.)

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Dcc617 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:11 am

I know it’s not a big deal for getting biglaw from Harvard. I know several people with LPs who got great jobs with great firms. Just make sure to bid intelligently (i.e. don’t bid exclusively DC).

I can’t speak to high prestige public interest, but I know that normal public interest work cares a lot more about demonstrated commitment. The school sort of speaks for itself.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:06 am

I received an LP for fall 1L, and followed it up with two more LPs my second semester of 1L (otherwise straight Ps...) and I (1) still got a big law job (k-jd, literally no special skills) and (2) have been able to successfully lateral. My thoughts focus on how to handle things if you don't knock it out of the park next semester - if you get a bunch of Hs or stop at just 1 LP total, you may not be in as poor of a position as you think, and I have no experience with actually doing well in law school so I can't give advice there :)

First, if you want biglaw, do everything you can to get your foot in the biglaw door for 2L summer - even if that means going to a market you aren't interested in. It was *really hard* to get that big law summer associate job with my terrible grades, and the career office was NOT helpful in forming my bid list (they allowed me to focus exclusively on DC, had me bidding at firms that I literally had no chance at, etc.). Assuming you don't turn things around this semester, you're going to want to bid for firms that have big classes, and get as many EIP/OCI interviews as you possibly can (but don't fill your schedule with "reach" firms - fill it with places that you actually have a shot at). Put yourself on the schedule at the end of the day for places you don't get. Do a ton of practice interviews. I had like 30 interviews and got one (ONE) summer associate offer and callback. Those were some dark days. That said, I was in law school during the recession, and things might be a little easier now on the job front. Express interest in firms early this summer, outside of OCI. I wish I had done better with that sort of thing, but I had no idea what I was doing and the career office literally didn't care.

Second, re: the long-term effects - there were a couple of firms when I was trying to lateral that just straight up wouldn't talk to me, even though I was otherwise exactly what they needed in a niche field, because I don't have the required GPA (I did get some Hs to balance out the LPs in 2L and 3L, but just barely). It is what it is - just recognize that if things don't turn around, some firms might not ever want to talk to you if you don't have a 3.50, and that's fine. No one at my new firm knows about and/or cares about my law school grades. You may not have *every* option open to you like you did before you got an LP, but you're still going to have tons of great options, particularly after you've been practicing for a couple of years.

Take a deep breath. You'll be fine. Seriously. Now isn't the time to panic - just focus on improving next semester, and then if you don't improve (and, maybe, even if you do), hustle like mad all summer.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I received an LP for fall 1L, and followed it up with two more LPs my second semester of 1L (otherwise straight Ps...) and I (1) still got a big law job (k-jd, literally no special skills) and (2) have been able to successfully lateral. My thoughts focus on how to handle things if you don't knock it out of the park next semester - if you get a bunch of Hs or stop at just 1 LP total, you may not be in as poor of a position as you think, and I have no experience with actually doing well in law school so I can't give advice there :)

First, if you want biglaw, do everything you can to get your foot in the biglaw door for 2L summer - even if that means going to a market you aren't interested in. It was *really hard* to get that big law summer associate job with my terrible grades, and the career office was NOT helpful in forming my bid list (they allowed me to focus exclusively on DC, had me bidding at firms that I literally had no chance at, etc.). Assuming you don't turn things around this semester, you're going to want to bid for firms that have big classes, and get as many EIP/OCI interviews as you possibly can (but don't fill your schedule with "reach" firms - fill it with places that you actually have a shot at). Put yourself on the schedule at the end of the day for places you don't get. Do a ton of practice interviews. I had like 30 interviews and got one (ONE) summer associate offer and callback. Those were some dark days. That said, I was in law school during the recession, and things might be a little easier now on the job front. Express interest in firms early this summer, outside of OCI. I wish I had done better with that sort of thing, but I had no idea what I was doing and the career office literally didn't care.

Second, re: the long-term effects - there were a couple of firms when I was trying to lateral that just straight up wouldn't talk to me, even though I was otherwise exactly what they needed in a niche field, because I don't have the required GPA (I did get some Hs to balance out the LPs in 2L and 3L, but just barely). It is what it is - just recognize that if things don't turn around, some firms might not ever want to talk to you if you don't have a 3.50, and that's fine. No one at my new firm knows about and/or cares about my law school grades. You may not have *every* option open to you like you did before you got an LP, but you're still going to have tons of great options, particularly after you've been practicing for a couple of years.

Take a deep breath. You'll be fine. Seriously. Now isn't the time to panic - just focus on improving next semester, and then if you don't improve (and, maybe, even if you do), hustle like mad all summer.


And the converse is also true. Decent grades aren't a free pass. I had decent grades my 1L (about half Hs), and I had VERY few callbacks. People with worse grades than me had 2-4 times the number of callbacks I had which was very tough for me. I mention this because employers genuinely care about your personality and interviewing skills. You are at a great school and you that makes a huge difference. In retrospect, I was very robotic in my firm interviews and only talked about cliche law school things which sunk me. You can overcome a bad grade or two with good personality skills.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:First, if you want biglaw, do everything you can to get your foot in the biglaw door for 2L summer - even if that means going to a market you aren't interested in. It was *really hard* to get that big law summer associate job with my terrible grades, and the career office was NOT helpful in forming my bid list (they allowed me to focus exclusively on DC, had me bidding at firms that I literally had no chance at, etc.). Assuming you don't turn things around this semester, you're going to want to bid for firms that have big classes, and get as many EIP/OCI interviews as you possibly can (but don't fill your schedule with "reach" firms - fill it with places that you actually have a shot at). Put yourself on the schedule at the end of the day for places you don't get. Do a ton of practice interviews. I had like 30 interviews and got one (ONE) summer associate offer and callback. Those were some dark days. That said, I was in law school during the recession, and things might be a little easier now on the job front. Express interest in firms early this summer, outside of OCI. I wish I had done better with that sort of thing, but I had no idea what I was doing and the career office literally didn't care.


This is really valuable, especially at NYC firms. A lot of my classmates who spent 1L summer in NYC came back with pre-OCI offers. I was K-JD/average interviewer/median grades and it was pretty hard for me to pick up callbacks. People expect it to be a cakewalk being at HYS, but firms will do 30 screeners for 10 callbacks and you're competing against other HYS students who have better grades/work experience/personality. Try to get an offer before OCI if you can.

Also, biglaw is really shitty. If you're at SLS, there's a ton of great companies nearby, some of which hire out of law school, especially if you get an internship over the school year. I wish I had explored those further instead of being satisfied with my OCI offer.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:04 pm

If I received an RC on a 1L fall Stanford course despite attending every class, being prepared for cold calls, and writing a dozen or so pages on the final, is there any way to appeal this? (I got an H in another course, so I’m not totally hopeless)

I’ve heard that RCs are given in very extreme cases, which I don’t feel that I fall into. Or did I just fall into the mistake in believing RCs are rarer than they are?

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:09 pm

talk to prof about the exam, I think they're rare but at the same time not as rare as people seemed to suggest

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:05 pm

Other than feedback for future exams, what could he expect from discussing it with him? I've heard rumors of two page exams getting P's, and the dean going back to revise an "unmerited RC." But don't know of anyone with firsthand experience.

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Other than feedback for future exams, what could he expect from discussing it with him? I've heard rumors of two page exams getting P's, and the dean going back to revise an "unmerited RC." But don't know of anyone with firsthand experience.

Mostly it will be feedback for future exams, but there is the occasional exceptional story of going to talk to the prof about an exam and finding out something like ExamSoft ate a page or two of it (I think ExamSoft is too plebeian for SLS, but you get the idea). It is very very unlikely that the prof is going to actually change their mind and decide the exam merits a better grade (especially since it fucks up the curve), but at least the anon would have some closure/peace of mind.

That said, avoid being like the guy in my class who was outraged - outraged! - at his torts grade and knew it couldn't possibly be correct because it was SO MUCH LOWER than all his other stellar grades!!! (Spoiler: it was correct.)

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Re: Havard/Stanford LP/RC

Postby nasra234 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm at one of the two above. I received one of the above grades. I'm under the impression this is extremely rare and, therefore, probably very damning. I'll be talking to career services soon, but I'd really appreciate any experience, insight, or comfort anyone on here can offer. In the absence of an otherwise stellar transcript, is finding even an okay big law job going to be a struggle? I'm basically giving up on the more competitive PI things I was interested in. I understand that I'm in a privileged position and the impulse to minimize this is valid given that, but please be sensitive to the fact that I feel as though my life was just changed quite drastically for the worse.


This response is admittedly belated, but in case you'd still like to speak to someone in order to get clarity about your current predicament, feel free to DM me.



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