firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 325805
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:24 am

Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.

mvp99

Silver
Posts: 1426
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:00 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby mvp99 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:47 am

I think all firms are perpetually searching for juniors. Its the nature of the system. Would need more details to maybe conclude that it is a red flag like the size of the office.

User avatar
2014

Platinum
Posts: 6028
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby 2014 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:51 am

Doesn't strike me as any more or less of a red flag than big law generally.

Employment practices are often some of the most busy at firms and can also be highly technical so it's tough to find enough people with genuine interest to fill chairs. It's why they tend to be very lateral heavy groups even at full service firms. Don't think that makes the practice necessarily bad i'd just know what you are getting into (a code-based, high volume, high stress (employment disputes are often very sensitive) practice with what i assume at this firm is a large litigation component).

Anonymous User
Posts: 325805
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:31 pm

Idk, as a counter-example, CWT seems to eternally be hiring capital markets associates, and it's not a secret why. (Highly leveraged group, terrible QoL).

KM2016

Bronze
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:20 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby KM2016 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:37 pm

If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.

sparty99

Gold
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.

tyroneslothrop1

Bronze
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:23 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.


Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.

RaceJudicata

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:29 pm

tyroneslothrop1 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.


Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.


Plenty of firms require big law hours for non big law pay. Red flag? I guess, but not unique to Lewis brisbois (have no clue what this firm is like/anything about them)

User avatar
LaLiLuLeLo

Silver
Posts: 644
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:54 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:54 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
tyroneslothrop1 wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.


Lewis Brisbois pay is extremely low for what is essentially biglaw hours.


Plenty of firms require big law hours for non big law pay. Red flag? I guess, but not unique to Lewis brisbois (have no clue what this firm is like/anything about them)


It’s basically a grinder firm where hours are high because insurance is paying to defend employment suits. Definitely not ideal, but probably among the best you could do for employment defense. Alternatively, stick it out making shit money doing plaintiffs work and then strike out on your own/join a small firm. Certainly has the potential to be lucrative.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325805
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:55 pm

KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.


It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?

Anonymous User
Posts: 325805
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:57 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.


Ogletree. I didn't want to make unfair comments against the firm if it is in fact a reputable firm.

sparty99

Gold
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.


It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?


Lewis Brisbois is insurance defense and the majority of insurance defense firms require 2,100 billable hours. Although, 2,100 insurance defense billing is a little difference billing then Big Law because there is usually actual work to do from 8 am to 06 pm so while it seems high (it is) it is not necessairly as if you are working 8 am to 10 pm because you usually have that work available to keep you busy all day.

Moreover, Lewis Brisbois will actually give you hands on litigation experience. You will do depositions, go to court, prepare litigation reports, position statements. I would probably work there 1-3 years then try to go to Seyfarth or Littler or the employment group of a big law firm. But I would join Lewis Brisbois employment if that's what I wanted to do. I don't know the pay, but 70-90k starting is decent if you don't get big law and you need to work 1 to 3 years and then try getting the big pay.

Also, Ogletree Deakins is one of the preeminent labor and employment firms.

Not to mention, it is so easy to go in-house if you have labor and employment experience. Additionally, almost every government agency does employment law so it is transferable to a lot of legal positions.

sparty99

Gold
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby sparty99 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:55 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
KM2016 wrote:If you're talking about Lewis Brisbois, everything about that firm is a red flag.


It wasn't that firm but I am curious to know because I was thinking about applying there. Can you please share your insight (and potentially save me) into why Lewis Brisbois is bad and if there's something particularly bad with their LA office?


Lewis Brisbois is insurance defense and the majority of insurance defense firms require 2,100 billable hours. Although, 2,100 insurance defense billing is a little difference billing then Big Law because there is usually actual work to do from 8 am to 06 pm so while it seems high (it is) you are not always working 8 am to 10 pm because you usually have that work available to keep you busy all day.

Moreover, Lewis Brisbois will actually give you hands on litigation experience. You will do depositions, go to court, prepare litigation reports, position statements. I would probably work there 1-3 years then try to go to Seyfarth or Littler or the employment group of a big law firm. But I would join Lewis Brisbois employment if that's what I wanted to do. I don't know the pay, but 70-90k starting is decent if you don't get big law and you need to work 1 to 3 years and then try getting the big pay.

Also, Ogletree Deakins is one of the preeminent labor and employment firms.

Not to mention, it is so easy to go in-house if you have labor and employment experience. Additionally, almost every government agency does employment law so it is transferable to a lot of legal positions.

barkschool

Silver
Posts: 967
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:05 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby barkschool » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


Skadden hires new associates every year, some say for menial and mind numbing work, potential red flag

RaceJudicata

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby RaceJudicata » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:47 pm

barkschool wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


Skadden hires new associates every year, some say for menial and mind numbing work, potential red flag


No, no, no. Drafting sig pages for BILLION dollar deals > than actually getting hands on experience on million dollar deals.

hlsperson1111

Bronze
Posts: 383
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:10 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Some of you in the So Cal market might know which firm I am talking about, but it's a large employment defense firm.

As far as I know, since like 2016, this one particular firm has been advertising the same position for 2 years straight. And it's not the same ad they forgot to take down. It's renewed with new dates and description. It is taken down sometimes for about 4 months but I'd see it pop up again. Is this a red flag? Seems like either high turn over or nobody wants to join.


This is a stupid post. Why wouldn't you just name the firm? Moreover, if it Lewis Brisbois, that is a good firm to do employment litigation. They have active files and you will get good experience for 1-3 years.


Ogletree. I didn't want to make unfair comments against the firm if it is in fact a reputable firm.


Ogletree is a very good employment defense firm (along with Littler and Seyfarth). I don't know anything about what it's like to work there, but I've used them as local counsel before and they seemed pretty easy to get along with.

lolwat

Silver
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:30 pm

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby lolwat » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:29 pm

Ogletree is solid as far as reputation goes. Lewis Brisbois... well, let's just say there are worse places you can go to if you couldn't get a biglaw gig, or if you really, really wanted to do insurance defense. Their pay is horrible, the quality of their lawyers is, with some exceptions, generally mediocre, and so on. The partners I've worked with there have been generally good to work with, but everyone's kind of friendly when you're on the same side.

If you want substantive experience I would look more towards trying to get into a high-end boutique firm doing the kind of work you want to do.

But back to the original topic, firms perpetually looking for junior associates isn't necessarily a red flag. Some firms don't do summer associate programs because it's expensive and total bullshit, so the way they get associates is to hire juniors with a year or two worth of experience instead. No idea if that's what Ogletree's doing.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325805
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: firm perpetually looking for junior associate? red flag?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:26 pm

lolwat wrote:Ogletree is solid as far as reputation goes. Lewis Brisbois... well, let's just say there are worse places you can go to if you couldn't get a biglaw gig, or if you really, really wanted to do insurance defense. Their pay is horrible, the quality of their lawyers is, with some exceptions, generally mediocre, and so on. The partners I've worked with there have been generally good to work with, but everyone's kind of friendly when you're on the same side.

If you want substantive experience I would look more towards trying to get into a high-end boutique firm doing the kind of work you want to do.

But back to the original topic, firms perpetually looking for junior associates isn't necessarily a red flag. Some firms don't do summer associate programs because it's expensive and total bullshit, so the way they get associates is to hire juniors with a year or two worth of experience instead. No idea if that's what Ogletree's doing.


That's what Ogletree in my market normally does.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.