Working as interview?

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Working as interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:04 pm

Please don't quote, because this 100% identifies me.

3L looking for work. Recently, I had a good interview with a small specialty firm. Happy to PM people info about the firm if that impacts their answer, but it's about 50 attorney's and the practice group I interviewed for has 7. Expected to get an offer. Instead, they asked if I wanted to come in for a bit over break so that they can see my work-product. From some googling, it seems like in other fields asking someone to work as an interview is really suspicious and indicates that they need some extra work done, not that they really want to hire someone.

Is this a normal thing in law? What do people think? There was a suggestion that they would at least pay me expenses for staying in town, does that matter?

totesTheGoat

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby totesTheGoat » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:17 pm

I've never heard of something like that before. It sounds like they're looking for a contract attorney, but without the contract. If I were in your shoes, I'd tell them "no thanks." Of course they'll pay your expenses. They're getting $50+/hour work from you for free.

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Mullens

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Mullens » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:24 pm

Seems pretty shady (and possibly illegal if they aren’t paying you). If it’s somewhere you think you want to work post-grad then I’d try to feel it out a bit more and weigh the possibly you’re being used vs. the prospect of longer term employment.

tomwatts

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby tomwatts » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:31 pm

I once applied to a place that had, as its final step, a 24-hour writing sample (draft a 2-page letter brief to a judge on some specified topic, handed out at some time and due the same time the next day). This was a standard thing there, and it was a legitimate firm. I'd be suspicious of anything more than a day's work as part of an interview process, though.

jennyf

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby jennyf » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:44 pm

Did they tell you how long "a bit" would be? If it's more than one day, they should be paying you for that time, interview or no.

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2014

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby 2014 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:52 pm

This sounds shady but i think it depends on what your alternatives for that time are. If your worst case scenario is wasting a couple of days of time doing a trial run at a new gig and your best case scenario is a full time paying job, i'd just do it and hope they are being genuine - they could just be using this to check for major red flags since they won't have had the benefit of seeing you interact with legal work and humans in a professional environment as a summer. Your time as a 3L isn't worth a whole lot anyway if you are doing 3L properly.

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:53 pm

I follow an attorney on LinkedIn with their own legitimate firm (and who makes a lot of opinionated posts) and they constantly blog about how they prefer/do “working interviews” but I think he mentions he pays interviewees and puts them up in a hotel. It’s from what I can tell a legit firm (pollard llc I think in Miami).

tyroneslothrop1

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:43 pm

At a fifty lawyer firm I think it is somewhat less likely they are jerking you around or just want you to do some bullshit assignment they don't feel like doing themselves. If it is anymore than a day, they should/must pay you. It's a different context, but some judges require would be clerks to complete timed, mock opinions to gauge writing ability.

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Please don't quote, because this 100% identifies me.

3L looking for work. Recently, I had a good interview with a small specialty firm. Happy to PM people info about the firm if that impacts their answer, but it's about 50 attorney's and the practice group I interviewed for has 7. Expected to get an offer. Instead, they asked if I wanted to come in for a bit over break so that they can see my work-product. From some googling, it seems like in other fields asking someone to work as an interview is really suspicious and indicates that they need some extra work done, not that they really want to hire someone.

Is this a normal thing in law? What do people think? There was a suggestion that they would at least pay me expenses for staying in town, does that matter?


I mean, honestly, do you have anything better going on? If it gives you a shot at a full time job, I say go for it.

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jchiles

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby jchiles » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:27 pm

tyroneslothrop1 wrote:At a fifty lawyer firm I think it is somewhat less likely they are jerking you around or just want you to do some bullshit assignment they don't feel like doing themselves. If it is anymore than a day, they should/must pay you. It's a different context, but some judges require would be clerks to complete timed, mock opinions to gauge writing ability.


Yeah I agree that the size of the firm makes it less likely they are trying to scam you out of some work. Also the fact they are willing to pay expenses weighs in favor of this being legit.

I think this is kind of extreme for an interview and don't think I would be willing to do more than a day ( I read "a bit" as like an afternoon) but on the other hand it shows that they are probably serious about hiring you. if you like the place, they'll cover and expenses, and you don't have anything better to do its probably worth your time.

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Lincoln

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Lincoln » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:39 pm

How does this not jeopardize client confidentiality?

mcmand

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby mcmand » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I follow an attorney on LinkedIn with their own legitimate firm (and who makes a lot of opinionated posts) and they constantly blog about how they prefer/do “working interviews” but I think he mentions he pays interviewees and puts them up in a hotel. It’s from what I can tell a legit firm (pollard llc I think in Miami).


That guy constantly blogs about everything. He's another one of those LinkedIn types who make those "inspirational" posts that are really just about themselves and their self-aggrandizement. Usually there are line breaks for every sentence and a dramatic opening. It's the LinkedIn equivalent of clickbait.

(Sorry for derailing your thread OP, I say just go for it and see what happens. If it gets shady when you're there you can always walk out.)

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:04 pm

mcmand wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I follow an attorney on LinkedIn with their own legitimate firm (and who makes a lot of opinionated posts) and they constantly blog about how they prefer/do “working interviews” but I think he mentions he pays interviewees and puts them up in a hotel. It’s from what I can tell a legit firm (pollard llc I think in Miami).


That guy constantly blogs about everything. He's another one of those LinkedIn types who make those "inspirational" posts that are really just about themselves and their self-aggrandizement. Usually there are line breaks for every sentence and a dramatic opening. It's the LinkedIn equivalent of clickbait.

(Sorry for derailing your thread OP, I say just go for it and see what happens. If it gets shady when you're there you can always walk out.)


I totally agree and sometimes think the guy is insane and posts pure crap.(I’m who you quoted). But I just wanted to add that he does have a legit firm and does “working interviews” which I find incredibly bizarre tbh.

lolwat

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby lolwat » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:39 pm

I also lean towards this being legit and not a scam.

I disagree that this is somehow extreme or unreasonable though. But then again, I personally think the usual hiring process is dumb. It's literally just randomly picking from a bunch of people all with similar paper credentials (none of which tells you whether they're capable of actual legal work), and then having a series of 30-minute conversations (where you still learn literally nothing about whether they'd be able to do legal work).

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:54 am

lolwat wrote:I also lean towards this being legit and not a scam.

I disagree that this is somehow extreme or unreasonable though. But then again, I personally think the usual hiring process is dumb. It's literally just randomly picking from a bunch of people all with similar paper credentials (none of which tells you whether they're capable of actual legal work), and then having a series of 30-minute conversations (where you still learn literally nothing about whether they'd be able to do legal work).


Isn’t that the process for almost every single job?

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pancakes3

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:08 am

sounds more like a soft offer as opposed to another round of interviews...

what position were you interviewing for?

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RedGiant

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby RedGiant » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:21 am

Lincoln wrote:How does this not jeopardize client confidentiality?


THIS. THIS. THIS. Also, you are not on their malpractice insurance. Tell them you are happy to do a short assignment, but that your are not comfortable with the arrangement from a conflicts and malpractice perspective.

I'd like to give a shoutout to Andre at Silicon Law Group for Tom Sawyering me into doing a real client assignment but pretending it was just a fake one, back when I was a paralegal, interviewing in 2009. He gave me the assignment and no deadline to return it. I I figured out from the names of the people involved (it was a short assignment to do consents and prep option agreements) that they were indeed real employees of the client at issue. Separately, I took about 48 hours to get it to him because I was visiting my 90-something year old grandpa at the time, who had no internet. He got angry it was "late" when, in theory, if it was a test and just for interviewing purposes, 48 hours wouldn't be a big deal. It was "late" because it was real work!!!

It was so smarmy and unprofessional that I didn't want to to work there. Do not say yes to this. Don't. It's not right.

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Roy McAvoy

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Re: Working as interview?

Postby Roy McAvoy » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:55 am

RedGiant wrote:
Lincoln wrote:How does this not jeopardize client confidentiality?


THIS. THIS. THIS. Also, you are not on their malpractice insurance. Tell them you are happy to do a short assignment, but that your are not comfortable with the arrangement from a conflicts and malpractice perspective.

I'd like to give a shoutout to Andre at Silicon Law Group for Tom Sawyering me into doing a real client assignment but pretending it was just a fake one, back when I was a paralegal, interviewing in 2009. He gave me the assignment and no deadline to return it. I I figured out from the names of the people involved (it was a short assignment to do consents and prep option agreements) that they were indeed real employees of the client at issue. Separately, I took about 48 hours to get it to him because I was visiting my 90-something year old grandpa at the time, who had no internet. He got angry it was "late" when, in theory, if it was a test and just for interviewing purposes, 48 hours wouldn't be a big deal. It was "late" because it was real work!!!

It was so smarmy and unprofessional that I didn't want to to work there. Do not say yes to this. Don't. It's not right.


Holy shit, this is what I'd be worried about if I were OP. Sadly, I bet situations like this are a lot more common that we all expect.



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