Dating life in big law

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Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:13 am

Wanted to get your take on dating while working a big law job. As someone who is almost 30 and currently single, how difficult is it to date and start a relationship while working big law (assuming you enter big law single)? Is it hard to have a social life and go out at least one or twice a month? Any thoughts from current junior associates appreciated.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:07 am

Ended a relationship as a junior associate and haven’t been particularly good at dating since then. It’s rough and a lot of JUNIOR PARTNERS are totally alone. No way to live.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby EliotAlderson » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:46 am

Tinder and Bumble are wonderful tools.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:49 am

I am in lit and have had not many problems. 95% of the time, I can count on having my Friday and Saturday nights free. Other times can be tricky, but I can usually make them work if I'm willing to sleep less. The biggest issue might be shedding the work stress and keeping your energy up and maintaining interesting hobbies, etc., so that you're fun to be around on your dates.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:01 pm

some people make it work. I have no idea how. good luck

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby jingosaur » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:33 pm

Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:44 pm

First year in V20 in NYC. Dating scene has been great for me. It is definitely possible but works out better when you are dating people who are understanding of your schedule (other lawyers/bankers/doctors) because there have been times when I go MIA on someone I'm seeing because of a deal coming through or the like. It's really just all about balance. ETA: I've worked until midnight almost every night this week, will be working all day today but have a date tonight with someone and a brunch date tomorrow with someone else. Just have to make time!

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:04 pm

When I was in biglaw, most people I knew who were married/ in a relationship met their SO before biglaw (e.g., in law school).

A friend met someone from OKC while he was in biglaw. But he was no longer in biglaw when he got married.

I see a lot of single, mid 30s+ women who have appeared to given up on the chance of ever having a family. For women, there's the bio clock concern and many seem to not care about giving up a family life for this shitty job. I don't understand it, but everyone has different priorities.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:27 pm

OP here, as a woman in her late 20's, sacrificing personal life for career is a big concern for me regarding big law. It makes me wonder whether it's worth considering other career opportunities that aren't as demanding with respect to hours. At the end of the day, I would say personally for me getting married and having a family is more important than a career and no family. Are these concerns valid to seriously consider other career opportunities?

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:36 pm

It depends on your hours. Not all biglaw associates work so much as most people imagine. I am a NYC biglaw associate doing M&A, and I would say for those doing M&A here in NYC, starting a relationship would be impossible unless we are talking about dating another associate in the same firm. Yeah there are slow periods in M&A too, but those are never long enough for one to be able to start a relationship.

If your work is such that you are generally billing 8~10 hours a day and have at least one day off during weekends, you should be able to find someone and start a relationship. Many biglaw associates do manage to find someone to love, because their hours are not too terrible.

However, if you are attractive enough, casual dating once in a while, like once or twice a month, is definitely possible.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???


Just wanted to second the calling out of this misogyny. As a female poster, the frequent, unchecked sexism on this board is very uncomfortable to me and has often made me consider whether it's worth posting here. While not directly relevant to this particular instance of misogyny, I also wanted to note that as a female senior associate, the assumption that many posters make that if we're discussing a "partner" or "senior associate," the person must be male, is equally misogynist and unwelcome. I would not be surprised to learn that the sexism on this board is one factor in making female members feel less welcome and less able to contribute. In this #metoo era - since this board appears to have a policy of not moderating sexist comments - I think the first step is for those of us (both male and female) who oppose bigotry to call out the offending comments and make clear they have no place here.

And to the OP's question, I'm posting from the office where I will be spending the rest of the weekend - including several hours that had been benchmarked for a seventh date tonight. Nor is this my first work-related cancellation as to this date. No word yet on whether they will be willing to overlook the latest. However, I am firmly committed to my career and am only willing to date someone who can accept that work-related cancellations are a relatively frequent fact of biglaw life; if this person can't, it's better that both of us figure that out now.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:05 pm

As much as I think some posters could use a slap upside the head for not understanding what sexism is, maybe an innocuous comment about dating isn't the hill you want to die on...

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???


Just wanted to second the calling out of this misogyny. As a female poster, the frequent, unchecked sexism on this board is very uncomfortable to me and has often made me consider whether it's worth posting here. While not directly relevant to this particular instance of misogyny, I also wanted to note that as a female senior associate, the assumption that many posters make that if we're discussing a "partner" or "senior associate," the person must be male, is equally misogynist and unwelcome. I would not be surprised to learn that the sexism on this board is one factor in making female members feel less welcome and less able to contribute. In this #metoo era - since this board appears to have a policy of not moderating sexist comments - I think the first step is for those of us (both male and female) who oppose bigotry to call out the offending comments and make clear they have no place here.

And to the OP's question, I'm posting from the office where I will be spending the rest of the weekend - including several hours that had been benchmarked for a seventh date tonight. Nor is this my first work-related cancellation as to this date. No word yet on whether they will be willing to overlook the latest. However, I am firmly committed to my career and am only willing to date someone who can accept that work-related cancellations are a relatively frequent fact of biglaw life; if this person can't, it's better that both of us figure that out now.


regardless of sex/gender, that's pretty sad.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:14 pm

(one of the prior anons who was troubled)

(And right on cue, we have a volunteer to tell us that a blatantly gendered comment implying that a woman in biglaw can't or shouldn't be picky about who she dates, while guys can pick the "girls" they want = not sexist. Thanks for being part of the problem.)

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???


Just wanted to second the calling out of this misogyny. As a female poster, the frequent, unchecked sexism on this board is very uncomfortable to me and has often made me consider whether it's worth posting here. While not directly relevant to this particular instance of misogyny, I also wanted to note that as a female senior associate, the assumption that many posters make that if we're discussing a "partner" or "senior associate," the person must be male, is equally misogynist and unwelcome. I would not be surprised to learn that the sexism on this board is one factor in making female members feel less welcome and less able to contribute. In this #metoo era - since this board appears to have a policy of not moderating sexist comments - I think the first step is for those of us (both male and female) who oppose bigotry to call out the offending comments and make clear they have no place here.

And to the OP's question, I'm posting from the office where I will be spending the rest of the weekend - including several hours that had been benchmarked for a seventh date tonight. Nor is this my first work-related cancellation as to this date. No word yet on whether they will be willing to overlook the latest. However, I am firmly committed to my career and am only willing to date someone who can accept that work-related cancellations are a relatively frequent fact of biglaw life; if this person can't, it's better that both of us figure that out now.


regardless of sex/gender, that's pretty sad.

Why?

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???


Just wanted to second the calling out of this misogyny. As a female poster, the frequent, unchecked sexism on this board is very uncomfortable to me and has often made me consider whether it's worth posting here. While not directly relevant to this particular instance of misogyny, I also wanted to note that as a female senior associate, the assumption that many posters make that if we're discussing a "partner" or "senior associate," the person must be male, is equally misogynist and unwelcome. I would not be surprised to learn that the sexism on this board is one factor in making female members feel less welcome and less able to contribute. In this #metoo era - since this board appears to have a policy of not moderating sexist comments - I think the first step is for those of us (both male and female) who oppose bigotry to call out the offending comments and make clear they have no place here.

And to the OP's question, I'm posting from the office where I will be spending the rest of the weekend - including several hours that had been benchmarked for a seventh date tonight. Nor is this my first work-related cancellation as to this date. No word yet on whether they will be willing to overlook the latest. However, I am firmly committed to my career and am only willing to date someone who can accept that work-related cancellations are a relatively frequent fact of biglaw life; if this person can't, it's better that both of us figure that out now.


regardless of sex/gender, that's pretty sad.


(prior poster) You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but biglaw is just one of many fields that has a "lifestyle" component that your partner has to accept. I suppose you may also consider it "sad" that a chef or theater actor needs their partner to understand that they have to work nights, weekends, and holidays, or someone committed to the military needs a significant other who can deal with deployments. But shockingly, people choose to be committed to those careers too. Personally, I find it "sad" when others feel the need to be judgmental of their choices, but your mileage clearly varies.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(one of the prior anons who was troubled)

(And right on cue, we have a volunteer to tell us that a blatantly gendered comment implying that a woman in biglaw can't or shouldn't be picky about who she dates, while guys can pick the "girls" they want = not sexist. Thanks for being part of the problem.)


Or--and try to follow me on this one--the anon you quoted was a male associate who was speaking about the need for other men to not abandon standards when they date, perhaps perceiving (whether correctly or not) that women might be a in a better position to choose who they date.

But you're probably right, the three words you quoted were a clear marker of a blatantly sexist anonymous male, hellbent on furthering the patriarchy. That's not at all a ridiculous conclusion to draw based on nothing.

ETA: Also, super brave anon use in this thread.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here, as a woman in her late 20's, sacrificing personal life for career is a big concern for me regarding big law. It makes me wonder whether it's worth considering other career opportunities that aren't as demanding with respect to hours. At the end of the day, I would say personally for me getting married and having a family is more important than a career and no family. Are these concerns valid to seriously consider other career opportunities?
I'm also a woman in my late twenties—I've been married for several years already, but I ended up declining an offer after my SA (like, immediately after, not before getting another job), in part because I didn't think the firm lifestyle, at least at my firm, was compatible with the family life I wanted for myself—and I don't even really want kids.

That said, doing what I did was a big risk, and I got very lucky in ending up in a government honors program in my area of interest. Based on my admittedly limited experience, I don't really think that biglaw is the best environment in which to develop a relationship and/or start a family—but you still have time, and starting a career in biglaw is often the best/only way to get a job that DOES support a more flexible lifestyle. If you have other options, I think it's worth pursuing them, but it's probably not wise to take biglaw off the table without having something else lined up.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Milksteak » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:47 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(one of the prior anons who was troubled)

(And right on cue, we have a volunteer to tell us that a blatantly gendered comment implying that a woman in biglaw can't or shouldn't be picky about who she dates, while guys can pick the "girls" they want = not sexist. Thanks for being part of the problem.)


Or--and try to follow me on this one--the anon you quoted was a male associate who was speaking about the need for other men to not abandon standards when they date, perhaps perceiving (whether correctly or not) that women might be a in a better position to choose who they date.

But you're probably right, the three words you quoted were a clear marker of a blatantly sexist anonymous male, hellbent on furthering the patriarchy. That's not at all a ridiculous conclusion to draw based on nothing.

ETA: Also, super brave anon use in this thread.


So I'm the "???" guy. I am a man and I have no idea what that poster meant, but it is certainly gendered and seems sexist to suggest that men would need to be more selective about who they date.

Also, your hypothetical reasoning that women are "in a better position to choose" actually solidifies the comment as sexist. How are women in a better position to choose? What does it mean to abandon "standards"? Was the poster saying that big law women need to worry less, because there are a ton of quality men in the world, but big law men should worry more, because the world is full of mostly horrible women? So men need to be more selective because there are not that many good women out there? How is that not a sexist thing to say?

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby zhenders » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:48 pm

Since the above poster called out definitional sexism and asked for allies to step up and call it out, at least three different people jumped in to attack her, and one person actually tried to mansplain sexism to her. Whoa. Lame and offensive.

Can't speak to dating in biglaw; 3L currently. But dating advice that applies to men also applies to women and vice versa. There's no biological reason why it shouldn't, and to argue otherwise probably comes off as pretty demeaning to many women. How about we discuss dating in general human terms? People date all kinds of people of all genders and for different reasons, and any gender based assumptions must end up being unhelpful anyways.

ETA: happy to be scooped by the immediately preceding guy.
Last edited by zhenders on Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Put dates during the week on your work calendar so people think you're in a meeting when you're on the date. Use dating apps to meet girls and set up dates. Never go on a date with someone who doesn't know about biglaw. And be picky, especially if you're a guy.


???


Just wanted to second the calling out of this misogyny. As a female poster, the frequent, unchecked sexism on this board is very uncomfortable to me and has often made me consider whether it's worth posting here. While not directly relevant to this particular instance of misogyny, I also wanted to note that as a female senior associate, the assumption that many posters make that if we're discussing a "partner" or "senior associate," the person must be male, is equally misogynist and unwelcome. I would not be surprised to learn that the sexism on this board is one factor in making female members feel less welcome and less able to contribute. In this #metoo era - since this board appears to have a policy of not moderating sexist comments - I think the first step is for those of us (both male and female) who oppose bigotry to call out the offending comments and make clear they have no place here.

And to the OP's question, I'm posting from the office where I will be spending the rest of the weekend - including several hours that had been benchmarked for a seventh date tonight. Nor is this my first work-related cancellation as to this date. No word yet on whether they will be willing to overlook the latest. However, I am firmly committed to my career and am only willing to date someone who can accept that work-related cancellations are a relatively frequent fact of biglaw life; if this person can't, it's better that both of us figure that out now.


regardless of sex/gender, that's pretty sad.


(prior poster) You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but biglaw is just one of many fields that has a "lifestyle" component that your partner has to accept. I suppose you may also consider it "sad" that a chef or theater actor needs their partner to understand that they have to work nights, weekends, and holidays, or someone committed to the military needs a significant other who can deal with deployments. But shockingly, people choose to be committed to those careers too. Personally, I find it "sad" when others feel the need to be judgmental of their choices, but your mileage clearly varies.


I don't think its fair to compare chefs, actors, and soldiers to lawyers with regard to how sad it is when they let their jobs get in the way of their personal lives. I'm sure they get more out of their job (enjoyment, personal satisfaction) than the paper pushing cog in the biglaw machine.

I just think it's sad to let personally meaningless work get in the way of your life. Work to live--not live to work.

I'm gonna stick it out until I can't balance it anymore, once that's reached, I'm out.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:51 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(one of the prior anons who was troubled)

(And right on cue, we have a volunteer to tell us that a blatantly gendered comment implying that a woman in biglaw can't or shouldn't be picky about who she dates, while guys can pick the "girls" they want = not sexist. Thanks for being part of the problem.)


Or--and try to follow me on this one--the anon you quoted was a male associate who was speaking about the need for other men to not abandon standards when they date, perhaps perceiving (whether correctly or not) that women might be a in a better position to choose who they date.

But you're probably right, the three words you quoted were a clear marker of a blatantly sexist anonymous male, hellbent on furthering the patriarchy. That's not at all a ridiculous conclusion to draw based on nothing.

ETA: Also, super brave anon use in this thread.

I think anon's reading makes way more sense, though, and it was a stupid and crappy thing to say. And I don't think it's appropriate to yell at a woman poster for calling out a weirdly gendered comment. Saying a particular comment was misogynist is not the same as calling a person blatantly sexist and hellbent on furthering the patriarchy, which you're smart enough to know.

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:58 pm

zhenders wrote:Since the above poster called out definitional sexism and asked for allies to step up and call it out, at least three different people jumped in to attack her, and one person actually tried to mansplain sexism to her. Whoa. Lame and offensive.

Can't speak to dating in biglaw; 3L currently. But dating advice that applies to men also applies to women and vice versa. There's no biological reason why it shouldn't, and to argue otherwise probably comes off as pretty demeaning to many women. How about we discuss dating in general human terms? People date all kinds of people of all genders and for different reasons, and any gender based assumptions must end up being unhelpful anyways.

ETA: happy to be scooped by the immediately preceding guy.


Do you find it sexist that men are generally expected to pay for dates?

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Re: Dating life in big law

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:04 pm

I find it odd that my comment is being singled out as yelling, when it was literally a one-sentence reply to a two-paragraph rant about misogyny based on five words: "especially if you're a guy."

Just to be clear on what those words imply, and it's not unreasonable: women are often in a much better position to be picky about who they date. It has nothing to do with an abundance of "quality men" (whatever the fuck that means), and more to do with how gender roles usually work out in dating. In the heterosexual dating world, guys tend to be expected to take the initiative on getting dates, which means they're usually in the position to get shot down more often. I'm not endorsing that, but it's currently the way of the world. So it doesn't seem all that strange to me to point out that men shouldn't feel desperate to just get a date--any date--while stuck in a tough job.

But even more importantly, the original post said "especially if you're a guy." Especially. Women were not precluded from being equally picky. It's kind of like saying, "All Trump supporters are idiots, especially white men." It doesn't preclude his white female supporters from being idiots; it just means that there's not a perfectly symmetrical experience between the sexes. And isn't acknowledging those imbalances part of feminist theory still? Or are we not doing that anymore?

I'm not even sure how you get to a more aggressive reading of that post, but if people think this is the place to make the stand, go for it.

P.S. Disagreeing with people's interpretations of things isn't "mansplaining." It's just disagreement.



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