Kirkland & Ellis

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LHS17

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby LHS17 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:48 pm

Anyone have insight on London office dynamics / culture?

Am aware they hire US JDs for corporate, good COLA still, nice offices in Gherkin, but seems Sidley is more popular.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:15 pm

By all accounts London office of K&E is a horrible place. The pros are they have good deals and lots of them. Cons are the people and the hours. I worked across from them on a few deals and they were just the worst - not just one partner either, but pretty much everyone.

One thing that everyone in the thread should be aware of is that, at least on the corporate side, people HATE working across from Kirkland. Clients hate it, other lawyers hate it. I know people who do work there and like it, but there is clearly something in the culture there to make K&E lawyers, on average, more abrasive and difficult. Not sure how that manifests if you do work there but something to keep in mind.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
+1

The type of people that make these generalizations are probably the ones who are so socially incompetent that they have a hard time actually talking to their peers and getting to know what they're like. I'm sure these types are lots of fun at parties.

Anonymous User wrote:It's really really dumb to make generalizations.


hmm...

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:39 pm

There are so many brave anons ITT shitting on Kirkland I can't even tell who's talking to who.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Really curious about Chi offices vs NYC and would appreciate if people said what offices positive anecdotes are from.


I work at KE Chicago. I like the people and culture here a lot. There’s a couple intense personalities but the free market system lets you avoid them and I’ve never heard anyone scream at an associate.

That being said, I would’ve gone elsewhere in NY over KE NY. I like the people in the NY office a lot less and found way more of them to be insufferable.


(Same anon who asked)

Thanks, that's what I'd assumed just because Chi is gonna Chi

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:lol yes I have it's super cringe-worthy (right here btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgSJUzYCGtc)

It was put out like 11 years ago though, but it continues to be a solid meme.


The video may be old, but I legitimately heard lines like that during my callback interviews. And a lot of hedging about what "balance" really means.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:56 am

but I heard Kirkland shatters dreams

Minnietron

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Minnietron » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:22 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:There are so many brave anons ITT shitting on Kirkland I can't even tell who's talking to who.

+1. I don't think any of these comments need anonymous protection. Weak KE trolling.

Anecdotally, two of the nicest students I've met are going to KE NYC.
Last edited by Minnietron on Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby umichman » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:48 am

Kirkland is a great firm. They do a couple things really well. Like any 2000 person firm, they have some great partners to work with, some not great ones. Some associates have great experiences there, some don't. there are nice and mean people. The partners have done a great job the past couple years at bringing in business, so nobody really lacks for work. Whether you think that is good or not depends on your goals. I think that there is probably only one other firm that is on par with them for bankruptcy, 4 or 5 that are on par for PE, and around the same for "mega firm" lit. It is not necessarily the "best" firm, but it is as close as any firm can be with 2000 lawyers. But i think generalizing any firm as best is unhelpful to incoming associates.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby SmokeytheBear » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:By all accounts London office of K&E is a horrible place. The pros are they have good deals and lots of them. Cons are the people and the hours. I worked across from them on a few deals and they were just the worst - not just one partner either, but pretty much everyone.

One thing that everyone in the thread should be aware of is that, at least on the corporate side, people HATE working across from Kirkland. Clients hate it, other lawyers hate it. I know people who do work there and like it, but there is clearly something in the culture there to make K&E lawyers, on average, more abrasive and difficult. Not sure how that manifests if you do work there but something to keep in mind.


I’ll show my face. None of these anons were me, but as I’ve said in other threads Kirkland attorneys are just dicks. I’ll give it to them that they are good at doing corporate work, but they are such massive assholes the whole phase of the deal for no reason. I’ve worked across from NY Chi LA on different deals and I was astounded by how uniformly they were dicks and also how uncoordinated their efforts were on deals.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:34 pm

Kirkland NYC corp here to give my 2 cents. It's honestly pretty funny how SO many people on TLS have such strong feelings/are so sure they have our firm pegged. There's just no way that all the posters here who talk about K&E have enough of a sample size of personal experience to warrant their claims. I'm sure that over time it became one of those things where posters saw a few people saying it and they just started spreading it like gospel with no personal knowledge themselves. I know of at least one very popular poster on TLS who went to my law school who likes to talk about how awful Kirkland is, but he was saying these negative things about K&E while he was still in school and I know for a fact he didn't even interview with them.

That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

People are always like "don't go to kirkland unless you want to be miserable," but I know of very very few people here who dislike being here. Sure, if someone were miserable they wouldn't be publicizing it, but its simply not some doom and gloom environment where people are just running around saying fuck my life. If you have decent interpersonal skills and are relatively confident, you will not hate it here.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:Kirkland NYC corp here to give my 2 cents. It's honestly pretty funny how SO many people on TLS have such strong feelings/are so sure they have our firm pegged. There's just no way that all the posters here who talk about K&E have enough of a sample size of personal experience to warrant their claims. I'm sure that over time it became one of those things where posters saw a few people saying it and they just started spreading it like gospel with no personal knowledge themselves. I know of at least one very popular poster on TLS who went to my law school who likes to talk about how awful Kirkland is, but he was saying these negative things about K&E while he was still in school and I know for a fact he didn't even interview with them.

That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

People are always like "don't go to kirkland unless you want to be miserable," but I know of very very few people here who dislike being here. Sure, if someone were miserable they wouldn't be publicizing it, but its simply not some doom and gloom environment where people are just running around saying fuck my life. If you have decent interpersonal skills and are relatively confident, you will not hate it here.


I hate to come down too hard on Kirkland but it really has a special place in my heart...

First, the poster here seems to imply that they know what it's like to work with 60 partners while questioning the credibility of others. Also, let me tell you, dear 1Ls, when you see a poster defending their own firm while admitting they can see why it gets its bad rep (and that bad rep is KE's rep) and that they would agree they may have more type As on average, you should probably avoid. Unless that really excites you. Then fine.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby EliotAlderson » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:Kirkland NYC corp here to give my 2 cents. It's honestly pretty funny how SO many people on TLS have such strong feelings/are so sure they have our firm pegged. There's just no way that all the posters here who talk about K&E have enough of a sample size of personal experience to warrant their claims. I'm sure that over time it became one of those things where posters saw a few people saying it and they just started spreading it like gospel with no personal knowledge themselves. I know of at least one very popular poster on TLS who went to my law school who likes to talk about how awful Kirkland is, but he was saying these negative things about K&E while he was still in school and I know for a fact he didn't even interview with them.

That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

People are always like "don't go to kirkland unless you want to be miserable," but I know of very very few people here who dislike being here. Sure, if someone were miserable they wouldn't be publicizing it, but its simply not some doom and gloom environment where people are just running around saying fuck my life. If you have decent interpersonal skills and are relatively confident, you will not hate it here.


NYC lockstep firm, average corporate hours south of 2000

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:36 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Kirkland NYC corp here to give my 2 cents. It's honestly pretty funny how SO many people on TLS have such strong feelings/are so sure they have our firm pegged. There's just no way that all the posters here who talk about K&E have enough of a sample size of personal experience to warrant their claims. I'm sure that over time it became one of those things where posters saw a few people saying it and they just started spreading it like gospel with no personal knowledge themselves. I know of at least one very popular poster on TLS who went to my law school who likes to talk about how awful Kirkland is, but he was saying these negative things about K&E while he was still in school and I know for a fact he didn't even interview with them.

That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

People are always like "don't go to kirkland unless you want to be miserable," but I know of very very few people here who dislike being here. Sure, if someone were miserable they wouldn't be publicizing it, but its simply not some doom and gloom environment where people are just running around saying fuck my life. If you have decent interpersonal skills and are relatively confident, you will not hate it here.


I hate to come down too hard on Kirkland but it really has a special place in my heart...

First, the poster here seems to imply that they know what it's like to work with 60 partners while questioning the credibility of others. Also, let me tell you, dear 1Ls, when you see a poster defending their own firm while admitting they can see why it gets its bad rep (and that bad rep is KE's rep) and that they would agree they may have more type As on average, you should probably avoid. Unless that really excites you. Then fine.


I would love to hear the ad hom and inevitably biased reason as to why kirkland has a "special place in your heart" :) please do advance my argument for me. I assume you're at least speaking wrt an experience with the NY office right? I'm only here speaking of my experience with the NY office. I'm obviously not here to defend 10+ offices with people I've never met. You're also misquoting me/making a flawed extrapolation, as I didn't say I understand why Kirkland has a bad rep, I said I understand why Kirkland has a rep. Unfortunately, you make this mistake twice. Saying I would be a little intimidated to work with 2 of the roughly 60 partners in our corporate group =/= saying I've worked with all 60 partners. Wasn't something like this tested on the LSAT?

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby dabigchina » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

Median 2100 seems high, given that in any given year there will be a solid cohort of people who are on leave/checked out because they are leaving/etc. But what do Iknow? I don't work at Kirkland so I'm not allowed to talk about it.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

Median 2100 seems high, given that in any given year there will be a solid cohort of people who are on leave/checked out because they are leaving/etc. But what do Iknow? I don't work at Kirkland so I'm not allowed to talk about it.


It could have been average (I only went to that meeting for the food). In any case, that's certainly fair, as my intent was not to say that people don't work hard here, because they do. My only intent was to dispel the notion that everyone should "expect" to bill 2400 hours if they work at K&E. However, I would be surprised if the number for other V10 NYC corp firms were significantly lower. If it is then that's great and I'm legitimately happy for those people.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I knew a few people going to Kirkland from ny school and they were insufferable strivers.


FWIW, my school sends out for OCI a directory of who summered at which firms, and of the 10 or 11 people that I know who summered at Kirkland, only one is even remotely close to an insufferable striver. The rest are mostly pleasant people, and one of them is actually the exact opposite of a striver (notorious for coasting).

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby stephcurry » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I knew a few people going to Kirkland from ny school and they were insufferable strivers.


FWIW, my school sends out for OCI a directory of who summered at which firms, and of the 10 or 11 people that I know who summered at Kirkland, only one is even remotely close to an insufferable striver. The rest are mostly pleasant people, and one of them is actually the exact opposite of a striver (notorious for coasting).


Accidental anon.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby AspiringAspirant » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Kirkland NYC corp here to give my 2 cents. It's honestly pretty funny how SO many people on TLS have such strong feelings/are so sure they have our firm pegged. There's just no way that all the posters here who talk about K&E have enough of a sample size of personal experience to warrant their claims. I'm sure that over time it became one of those things where posters saw a few people saying it and they just started spreading it like gospel with no personal knowledge themselves. I know of at least one very popular poster on TLS who went to my law school who likes to talk about how awful Kirkland is, but he was saying these negative things about K&E while he was still in school and I know for a fact he didn't even interview with them.

That being said, I can kind of see why K&E may have a rep but it's still pretty massively overblown. Yes, I'd mostly agree that on average we might have more type A's than most other big law firms, but I definitely don't agree that we have a ton of dicks or strivers. Most people here, though confident, are also quite friendly, social, and chill. I'm aware of one screamer (though he/she is in lit). Out of the roughly 60 partners (including non-shares) in the M&A group, there are 2-3 partners (really like 2.5) that I find a little scary/intimidating, but it is very easy to never work with them if I don't want to. If you guys at other firms are sporting ratios much better than 2.5/60, then *shrug, but to me thats a perfectly fine number. I've also seen people say stuff like expect to bill 2400+ hours every year if you go to K&E, but this is so grossly exaggerated. If you're doing restructuring then yes you'll probably be around 2400 or more, but the median for our corporate group this past year was just just under 2100 hours.

People are always like "don't go to kirkland unless you want to be miserable," but I know of very very few people here who dislike being here. Sure, if someone were miserable they wouldn't be publicizing it, but its simply not some doom and gloom environment where people are just running around saying fuck my life. If you have decent interpersonal skills and are relatively confident, you will not hate it here.


I hate to come down too hard on Kirkland but it really has a special place in my heart...

First, the poster here seems to imply that they know what it's like to work with 60 partners while questioning the credibility of others. Also, let me tell you, dear 1Ls, when you see a poster defending their own firm while admitting they can see why it gets its bad rep (and that bad rep is KE's rep) and that they would agree they may have more type As on average, you should probably avoid. Unless that really excites you. Then fine.


Saying I would be a little intimidated to work with 2 of the roughly 60 partners in our corporate group =/= saying I've worked with all 60 partners. Wasn't something like this tested on the LSAT?


You didn't say that you worked with all 60 partners, and no one accused you of saying that, making your reply a quintessential straw man (I think that's on the LSAT too). The critique was that since you haven't worked with all 60 partners, you giving ratios like 2.5/60 really doesn't mean anything, since you don't actually know what it's like to work with those 60 partners. In that way, you're generalizing much like the posters that you were criticizing.

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zhenders

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby zhenders » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:06 pm

Please stop being neurotic, people. Biglaw isn't magic. Firms don't have jerkface magnets. Big firms are made up of people. Some people are cool; others suck. You wanna talk about LSAT logical fallacies? Talking about law firms as though they are culturally monolithic is some seriously 135-level shit.

This thread has gotten silly. It should stop.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby cron1834 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:46 pm

zhenders wrote:Please stop being neurotic, people. Biglaw isn't magic. Firms don't have jerkface magnets. Big firms are made up of people. Some people are cool; others suck. You wanna talk about LSAT logical fallacies? Talking about law firms as though they are culturally monolithic is some seriously 135-level shit.

This thread has gotten silly. It should stop.

A 3L has spoken; we can all rest easy now.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:26 pm

Seems like a pretty social place with a lot of strong personalities. A lot of my classmates with above-average attractiveness/social-IQ but mediocre academics summered there. They actually participate in group plans and trips and activities with their coworkers beyond showing up to work. Seems like a good place to date (or maintain an active sex life with) people at work if you’re similarly calibrated.

I’ve heard some of the stories about miserable environment. Doesn’t seem to stick compared to similarly prestigious firms. Maybe if you’re an introvert, idk. It doesn’t attract top performers in law school (except the Chicago and DC offices) but I don’t really understand why since the firm is incredibly lucrative, has interesting work, and pays a little above market.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like a pretty social place with a lot of strong personalities. A lot of my classmates with above-average attractiveness/social-IQ but mediocre academics summered there. They actually participate in group plans and trips and activities with their coworkers beyond showing up to work. Seems like a good place to date (or maintain an active sex life with) people at work if you’re similarly calibrated.

I’ve heard some of the stories about miserable environment. Doesn’t seem to stick compared to similarly prestigious firms. Maybe if you’re an introvert, idk. It doesn’t attract top performers in law school (except the Chicago and DC offices) but I don’t really understand why since the firm is incredibly lucrative, has interesting work, and pays a little above market.


Why are law students even responding in this thread?

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:29 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like a pretty social place with a lot of strong personalities. A lot of my classmates with above-average attractiveness/social-IQ but mediocre academics summered there. They actually participate in group plans and trips and activities with their coworkers beyond showing up to work. Seems like a good place to date (or maintain an active sex life with) people at work if you’re similarly calibrated.

I’ve heard some of the stories about miserable environment. Doesn’t seem to stick compared to similarly prestigious firms. Maybe if you’re an introvert, idk. It doesn’t attract top performers in law school (except the Chicago and DC offices) but I don’t really understand why since the firm is incredibly lucrative, has interesting work, and pays a little above market.


Why are law students even responding in this thread?


Anon you are quoting

Use of “classmates” was ambiguous, I should have said former classmates. I’m several years out if law school.

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Re: Kirkland & Ellis

Postby rahulg91 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like a pretty social place with a lot of strong personalities. A lot of my classmates with above-average attractiveness/social-IQ but mediocre academics summered there. They actually participate in group plans and trips and activities with their coworkers beyond showing up to work. Seems like a good place to date (or maintain an active sex life with) people at work if you’re similarly calibrated.

I’ve heard some of the stories about miserable environment. Doesn’t seem to stick compared to similarly prestigious firms. Maybe if you’re an introvert, idk. It doesn’t attract top performers in law school (except the Chicago and DC offices) but I don’t really understand why since the firm is incredibly lucrative, has interesting work, and pays a little above market.


Why are law students even responding in this thread?


Anon you are quoting

Use of “classmates” was ambiguous, I should have said former classmates. I’m several years out if law school.


Don't worry about it, Smokey is insufferable in all contexts.



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