People who like Biglaw

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:40 pm

Lacepiece23 wrote:I thought this thread was about people liking Biglaw? For anyone who cares, I'm in a secondary market and it isn't that bad. I hated it at first. Now, I don't mind it; there are just jobs I'd likely prefer. The money is good though.

Can I ask how you were able to get from hating it at first to it not being that bad? Just finishing up stub year here and I kinda sorta hate it.

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Desert Fox

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:42 pm

dabigchina wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.

4% withdrawal rate is based on Trinity Study, which assumes a 30 year withdrawal period IIRC. If you are trying to retire at 40, it's prob safer to assume 45 withdrawal period IMO. I wouldn't want to be in a position where I need to put a bullet in my head because I ran out of money at 70.


TBF, running out of cash after you 67 isn't a huge deal. Worst case you social security and live off your kids.

Though I'd probably do 3% just to be safe.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Lacepiece23 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:I thought this thread was about people liking Biglaw? For anyone who cares, I'm in a secondary market and it isn't that bad. I hated it at first. Now, I don't mind it; there are just jobs I'd likely prefer. The money is good though.

Can I ask how you were able to get from hating it at first to it not being that bad? Just finishing up stub year here and I kinda sorta hate it.


I'm in lit at a free market firm. I got pretty good experience off the bat, but didn't really know what I was doing. I was constantly stressed and thought I was going to be fired for making mistakes. Then, I got my reviews and they were good so I stopped stressing so much and everything kind of clicked. There is a lot of shit that I don't like still, but my hours are normally better and I know what I'm doing. And I make a lot less mistakes and rarely stress when I do. The combinations of these factors kind of make it enjoyable because the substance of what I do can be interesting sometimes.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:56 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.

4% withdrawal rate is based on Trinity Study, which assumes a 30 year withdrawal period IIRC. If you are trying to retire at 40, it's prob safer to assume 45 withdrawal period IMO. I wouldn't want to be in a position where I need to put a bullet in my head because I ran out of money at 70.


TBF, running out of cash after you 67 isn't a huge deal. Worst case you social security and live off your kids.

Though I'd probably do 3% just to be safe.


Partner/honorary counsel at my firm just turned 100. I always idly wonder whether I should plan to live that long, and if not, what happens if I run out of cash in my 90s or something.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.

4% withdrawal rate is based on Trinity Study, which assumes a 30 year withdrawal period IIRC. If you are trying to retire at 40, it's prob safer to assume 45 withdrawal period IMO. I wouldn't want to be in a position where I need to put a bullet in my head because I ran out of money at 70.


TBF, running out of cash after you 67 isn't a huge deal. Worst case you social security and live off your kids.

Though I'd probably do 3% just to be safe.


Partner/honorary counsel at my firm just turned 100. I always idly wonder whether I should plan to live that long, and if not, what happens if I run out of cash in my 90s or something.

Just make partner and you'll be fine you silly goose Anon

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:36 pm

i won't speak ill of the guy too much since someone aged 100 is squarely in the "GREATEST GENERATION" age bracket and not boomer territory but jfc at someone still "working" at that age.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:37 pm

My firm lets old clients come "work" at the firm. There is literally an old white guy wing. They just read the news paper and avoid their wives.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:39 pm

nealric wrote:One problem with simply discounting "posh suburbs and cities" is that those are precisely the places where one has the most potential to save up that kind of money at an early age (and where Biglaw has offices). While it's certainly possible to simply pack up and move to a place with a lower cost of living, that likely means abandoning friends and family. For many, proximity friends and family are far more important than money.


It doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning anyone. There is a world of options between Soho and a cabin on the Wyoming prairie. With that kind of spending permitted—and no need to save—you’d have no problem getting a $500-600k house, which is enough to have a decent-sized house in a nice district within an hour of downtown even in NYC. And again, that’s if you never worked any other job at all (which you would probably wind up doing).

But again, set the threshold for happiness wherever you please. Just be okay with all the extra bullshit you have to put up with to get to that level.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:49 pm

It’s pretty telling how quickly this thread devolved into strategies for retiring young


And by strategies I mean quibbling and nitpicking
Last edited by Mr. Peanutbutter on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby 1styearlateral » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:16 pm

pancakes3 wrote:i won't speak ill of the guy too much since someone aged 100 is squarely in the "GREATEST GENERATION" age bracket and not boomer territory but jfc at someone still "working" at that age.

You have to wonder what value they add.

ETA: Meaning when you start approaching 30-35 years of experience, any more than that the useful experience becomes marginal.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:29 pm

Jfc at the thought of 80+ straight years of biglaw...

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:12 am

I like the work, especially the bigger cases, except that there is way too much of it. Contrary to what I read, despite a less than favorable review, they still pile on the work. I reached my billable bonus quota before the end of Nov. so at least I can take a mini breather from the stress. As far as liking BL, Yes (with a caveat) when I work with partners I like.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby NewSouthernAssociate » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:26 am

I was miserable my first couple years at a large but significantly below market paying firm doing general litigation. I'm much happier now doing labor and employment at a large firm in the same market. The cases I work on are genuinely interesting, and I like the partners I work with. I'm on track for about 2,200 hours this year and have also been able to take almost all 4 weeks of vacation without any issues. Perhaps starting out in an underpaid position has also made me appreciate my current job more.

Additionally, I worked for several attorneys at my old firm. I find it easier to work only for a couple partners now, as they know what I have on my plate and can manage expectations/deadlines accordingly.

I'd encourage law students to look into labor and employment. If you can land at a big firm, you'll get the same amount of money while doing interesting work. There are also several in-house L&E positions for the future if that's of interest to you.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby RehnquistWasTheMan » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:41 pm

smokeylarue wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:Uhh... not sure if you're trolling. I think I'm getting trolled here. Or someone just had a small mental breakdown..

you're not getting trolled. it is objectively ridiculous to think that 80k a year is barely surviving. My family, in which I am 1 of 4 kids, lived on a single income of around 40,000 pretty comfortably. Admittedly it is a low cost of living area, but still, if you think you can't survive on 80k a year you are living in an extreme bubble.


LOL you cannot be serious. 40k for a family of 6 is close to poverty level. Honestly I have no clue where you lived that it provided a comfortable life, but most people here have no desire to live in North fuckin dakota.


Mind explaining what problem you have with people living in North Dakota? You can still travel by using airports you know...and not have to deal with metropolitan crazies (and just show off the $ per square foot for houses to make the NYC folks cry)

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby rahulg91 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:18 pm

RehnquistWasTheMan wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:
cdotson2 wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:Uhh... not sure if you're trolling. I think I'm getting trolled here. Or someone just had a small mental breakdown..

you're not getting trolled. it is objectively ridiculous to think that 80k a year is barely surviving. My family, in which I am 1 of 4 kids, lived on a single income of around 40,000 pretty comfortably. Admittedly it is a low cost of living area, but still, if you think you can't survive on 80k a year you are living in an extreme bubble.


LOL you cannot be serious. 40k for a family of 6 is close to poverty level. Honestly I have no clue where you lived that it provided a comfortable life, but most people here have no desire to live in North fuckin dakota.


Mind explaining what problem you have with people living in North Dakota? You can still travel by using airports you know...and not have to deal with metropolitan crazies (and just show off the $ per square foot for houses to make the NYC folks cry)


What is up with the idealization of North Dakota in this thread? There's not some binary from NYC to North Dakota. Dallas, Chicago, Houston, and a number of other cities have substantially lower cost-of-living with competitive salaries. Access to healthcare in states like North Dakota is severely limited. Not to mention that being a minority in North Dakota MIGHT not be as much fun, but I guess most people here haven't considered that. North Dakota isn't some great outcome. It blows for a number of reasons (other rural states as well).

Also $40K household income puts you approximately in the 40% percentile of households in North Dakota. So yeah that blows too. Not to mention for a family of 6 it would suck even more.

There's a lot of terrible arguments in this thread, just picked this one at random. Have a nice day y'all.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby TLSModBot » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:20 pm

At what year am I supposed to start hating Biglaw exactly

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Nebby » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:39 pm

RehnquistWasTheMan wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:LOL you cannot be serious. 40k for a family of 6 is close to poverty level. Honestly I have no clue where you lived that it provided a comfortable life, but most people here have no desire to live in North fuckin dakota.


Mind explaining what problem you have with people living in North Dakota? You can still travel by using airports you know...and not have to deal with metropolitan crazies (and just show off the $ per square foot for houses to make the NYC folks cry)

It will probably be difficult to explain because smokey said "most people here have no desire to live in North fuckin Dakota," and not "I have a problem with people living in North Dakota."

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby lagamemnon » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:40 pm

NewSouthernAssociate wrote:I was miserable my first couple years at a large but significantly below market paying firm doing general litigation. I'm much happier now doing labor and employment at a large firm in the same market. The cases I work on are genuinely interesting, and I like the partners I work with. I'm on track for about 2,200 hours this year and have also been able to take almost all 4 weeks of vacation without any issues. Perhaps starting out in an underpaid position has also made me appreciate my current job more.

Additionally, I worked for several attorneys at my old firm. I find it easier to work only for a couple partners now, as they know what I have on my plate and can manage expectations/deadlines accordingly.

I'd encourage law students to look into labor and employment. If you can land at a big firm, you'll get the same amount of money while doing interesting work. There are also several in-house L&E positions for the future if that's of interest to you.



The way you ignored the prompt in your answer says a lot about why you wound up at a below-market firm in the first place.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby RehnquistWasTheMan » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:50 pm

lagamemnon wrote:
NewSouthernAssociate wrote:I was miserable my first couple years at a large but significantly below market paying firm doing general litigation. I'm much happier now doing labor and employment at a large firm in the same market. The cases I work on are genuinely interesting, and I like the partners I work with. I'm on track for about 2,200 hours this year and have also been able to take almost all 4 weeks of vacation without any issues. Perhaps starting out in an underpaid position has also made me appreciate my current job more.

Additionally, I worked for several attorneys at my old firm. I find it easier to work only for a couple partners now, as they know what I have on my plate and can manage expectations/deadlines accordingly.

I'd encourage law students to look into labor and employment. If you can land at a big firm, you'll get the same amount of money while doing interesting work. There are also several in-house L&E positions for the future if that's of interest to you.



The way you ignored the prompt in your answer says a lot about why you wound up at a below-market firm in the first place.


Let the fireworks begin (or continue...)

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:01 pm

RehnquistWasTheMan wrote:
lagamemnon wrote:
NewSouthernAssociate wrote:I was miserable my first couple years at a large but significantly below market paying firm doing general litigation. I'm much happier now doing labor and employment at a large firm in the same market. The cases I work on are genuinely interesting, and I like the partners I work with. I'm on track for about 2,200 hours this year and have also been able to take almost all 4 weeks of vacation without any issues. Perhaps starting out in an underpaid position has also made me appreciate my current job more.

Additionally, I worked for several attorneys at my old firm. I find it easier to work only for a couple partners now, as they know what I have on my plate and can manage expectations/deadlines accordingly.

I'd encourage law students to look into labor and employment. If you can land at a big firm, you'll get the same amount of money while doing interesting work. There are also several in-house L&E positions for the future if that's of interest to you.



The way you ignored the prompt in your answer says a lot about why you wound up at a below-market firm in the first place.


Let the fireworks begin (or continue...)

oh, are people still engaging with OP at this point? i stopped reading his posts around page 2.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:03 pm

lagamemnon wrote:


I don't know if you've already mentioned this, but do you do corp or lit?

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smokeylarue

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby smokeylarue » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:27 am

bruinfan10 wrote:
RehnquistWasTheMan wrote:
lagamemnon wrote:
NewSouthernAssociate wrote:I was miserable my first couple years at a large but significantly below market paying firm doing general litigation. I'm much happier now doing labor and employment at a large firm in the same market. The cases I work on are genuinely interesting, and I like the partners I work with. I'm on track for about 2,200 hours this year and have also been able to take almost all 4 weeks of vacation without any issues. Perhaps starting out in an underpaid position has also made me appreciate my current job more.

Additionally, I worked for several attorneys at my old firm. I find it easier to work only for a couple partners now, as they know what I have on my plate and can manage expectations/deadlines accordingly.

I'd encourage law students to look into labor and employment. If you can land at a big firm, you'll get the same amount of money while doing interesting work. There are also several in-house L&E positions for the future if that's of interest to you.



The way you ignored the prompt in your answer says a lot about why you wound up at a below-market firm in the first place.


Let the fireworks begin (or continue...)

oh, are people still engaging with OP at this point? i stopped reading his posts around page 2.


Had no idea he was even the OP, truly no one gave a shit about his original post lol

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nealric

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby nealric » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:39 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
nealric wrote:One problem with simply discounting "posh suburbs and cities" is that those are precisely the places where one has the most potential to save up that kind of money at an early age (and where Biglaw has offices). While it's certainly possible to simply pack up and move to a place with a lower cost of living, that likely means abandoning friends and family. For many, proximity friends and family are far more important than money.


It doesn’t necessarily mean abandoning anyone. There is a world of options between Soho and a cabin on the Wyoming prairie. With that kind of spending permitted—and no need to save—you’d have no problem getting a $500-600k house, which is enough to have a decent-sized house in a nice district within an hour of downtown even in NYC. And again, that’s if you never worked any other job at all (which you would probably wind up doing).

But again, set the threshold for happiness wherever you please. Just be okay with all the extra bullshit you have to put up with to get to that level.


For me, living an hour (as opposed to 10 or 15 minutes) from friends and family is a big deal. You can't casually pop over for dinner or to say hi- it's a big ordeal- especially if you were talking NYC area where train and traffic problems can easily turn an hour trip into two or more. Of course, I'm not saying any of this has to apply to everyone.

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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Nebby » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:33 am

Lol "friends and family" and "biglaw"



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