People who like Biglaw

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Catharsis&Crumpets
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:52 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Catharsis&Crumpets » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.


The low barrier to entry, significantly less debt to obtain the degree, and better long term job prospects/career longevity, particularly for those who manage to obtain a CPA. You may not earn "fuck you" money, but over 50% of practicing lawyers never will either. Besides, most legal work becomes tedious after you do it for more than a couple of years. Fact patterns become routine, you've got your standard complaint/answer/motion template that you tweak here and there with the occasional memorandum thrown in for spice, and over 90% of cases never go to trial.

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nealric
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby nealric » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.


There are interesting accounting problems just as there are interesting legal problems. But your average fresh out of undergrad Big4 analyst doesn't ever get to touch said problems. It can be reasonably interesting at the senior levels. The people you met probably did the accounting equivalent of biglaw first year work unless they were in public accounting for at least 5 years or so.

Anonymous User
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:43 pm

Former accountant here and now big law junior, and I regret going to law school. The three years I wasted just to get a job with terrible hours that won't even break me even for the next six years.

Anonymous User
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:51 pm

nealric wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.


There are interesting accounting problems just as there are interesting legal problems. But your average fresh out of undergrad Big4 analyst doesn't ever get to touch said problems. It can be reasonably interesting at the senior levels. The people you met probably did the accounting equivalent of biglaw first year work unless they were in public accounting for at least 5 years or so.


We should be comparing the first or second year levels of work. Both are boring but comparing my brief encounter with accounting back in college and law school with my current biglaw experience, biglaw is more interesting. It may involve some personal preference, but whereas comparing biglaw with finance makes sense, I would stick to biglaw any day over accounting. The pay is a lot lower for accounting largely because of the lower cost of entry. But for people who went to law school with little or no debt, that cost of entry talk is a non-starter. And accounting is definitely not that chill either in terms of hours.

EliotAlderson
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby EliotAlderson » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:54 pm

Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.

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Yugihoe
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Yugihoe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:21 pm

EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 pm

Now that we are on page four, can someone please let me know who ended up winning the pissing contest?

Anonymous User
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:57 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:Now that we are on page four, can someone please let me know who ended up winning the pissing contest?

Me obvi

hlsperson1111
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby hlsperson1111 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:59 pm

Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.

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pancakes3
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby pancakes3 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:06 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.


that's a twisted reading of "hedge your bids"

lagamemnon
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:13 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby lagamemnon » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:09 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:Now that we are on page four, can someone please let me know who ended up winning the pissing contest?


Well I pissed the most, but the boring, loveless people who like the job probably haven't changed their minds.

jd20132013
Posts: 1257
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby jd20132013 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:12 pm

hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.



I've been here for a while and I'm not sure id describe that as the received wisdom

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:20 pm

jd20132013 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.



I've been here for a while and I'm not sure id describe that as the received wisdom


Yes. That's what folks here have been telling law students not to do. NYC biglaw corporate.

cavalier1138
Posts: 4635
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:47 pm

This thread is the single best justification for bringing back JobVent. Or for using some of that sweet, sweet biglaw cash to get into therapy. Christ.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302686
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.



I've been here for a while and I'm not sure id describe that as the received wisdom


Yes. That's what folks here have been telling law students not to do. NYC biglaw corporate.


Yeah but for someone aiming for that sweet 40/hr a week in-house gig, isn’t it best to do nyc (or some other major market) trans work so that they can 1. Make some cash and 2. Exit as soon as possible?

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LaLiLuLeLo
Posts: 567
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.



I've been here for a while and I'm not sure id describe that as the received wisdom


Yes. That's what folks here have been telling law students not to do. NYC biglaw corporate.


Yeah but for someone aiming for that sweet 40/hr a week in-house gig, isn’t it best to do nyc (or some other major market) trans work so that they can 1. Make some cash and 2. Exit as soon as possible?


I think these days it’s best to do tech trans work (assuming in SV, could be wrong) if you want a sweet in house gig.

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glitched
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Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby glitched » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:15 pm

EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


What would you consider niche?

oblig.lawl.ref
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


Easier said than done


It's really not. The problem is that everyone follows the TLS received wisdom of going to a NYC biglaw firm to do transactional work (either because it is the most "prestigious" job or because it is the easiest job to obtain) and then complains that it's miserable. This whole thread underscores the importance of taking time early in your career (and in law school) to assess what you really want.



I've been here for a while and I'm not sure id describe that as the received wisdom


Yes. That's what folks here have been telling law students not to do. NYC biglaw corporate.


Yeah but for someone aiming for that sweet 40/hr a week in-house gig, isn’t it best to do nyc (or some other major market) trans work so that they can 1. Make some cash and 2. Exit as soon as possible?


I think these days it’s best to do tech trans work (assuming in SV, could be wrong) if you want a sweet in house gig.


Yeah you can exit in 1-2 years if you get lucky and are not at all picky. Probably can be picky and need less luck in 3. The problem is a lot of times, especially at larger companies, you are really just a commercial counsel. I wouldn't want to do purely commercial stuff. That sounds boring as all fuck.

I think SV corp is the best for going in house to a place you'd want to go.

oblig.lawl.ref
Posts: 284
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


It can be a crap shoot. Some of the specialist groups at my firm get severely understaffed from time to time. Also there are often like 3-5 partners firm wide. Some of these niche groups develop real hard working cultures and bill more hours than the general corporate side. I have also had to call them at 3:30 am to wake them up to review reps and disclosure schedules. Was told to just keep calling until they answered. So it's not all great.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302686
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:17 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
Yeah you can exit in 1-2 years if you get lucky and are not at all picky. Probably can be picky and need less luck in 3. The problem is a lot of times, especially at larger companies, you are really just a commercial counsel. I wouldn't want to do purely commercial stuff. That sounds boring as all fuck.

I think SV corp is the best for going in house to a place you'd want to go.


What’s the difference between commercial counsel and your run of the mill gc’s office type counsel?

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trebekismyhero
Posts: 782
Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 5:26 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby trebekismyhero » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


It can be a crap shoot. Some of the specialist groups at my firm get severely understaffed from time to time. Also there are often like 3-5 partners firm wide. Some of these niche groups develop real hard working cultures and bill more hours than the general corporate side. I have also had to call them at 3:30 am to wake them up to review reps and disclosure schedules. Was told to just keep calling until they answered. So it's not all great.


Agreed. At my firm, the folks in tax, real estate, patent, employee benefits are always super busy. They are almost always understaffed too because their partners don't bring in that many clients on their own so more service oriented. That said, the ppl I know at my firm in those niche areas do seem a little happier with their jobs on avg than the the general corp and lit associates.

Winter is Coming
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:51 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Winter is Coming » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm

Depending on how well the M&A people communicate, those groups often get "please turn comments ASAP" on documents they have very little context about seemingly out of nowhere.

RaceJudicata
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby RaceJudicata » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.


FWIW, all my friends who did big4 washed out in like 1-2 years cause it was miserable. Big law friends, have on average, lasted longer.

Vianco
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Vianco » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:59 am

Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:You may not earn "fuck you" money, but over 50% of practicing lawyers never will either.

LOL

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SmokeytheBear
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:17 am

Vianco wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:You may not earn "fuck you" money, but over 50% of practicing lawyers never will either.

LOL


We need more scientific data like this on TLS.




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