People who like Biglaw

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Pizzaburger
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:56 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Pizzaburger » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:02 am

I think 90% of it is who you end up working with on a daily basis in your firm, which is obviously pretty difficult if not impossible to determine before starting as a first year at a given firm. From personal experience in NYC corporate, I kinda like the gig. Do the hours suck? Yes. Do you have certainty and flexibility around the holidays to make travel plans? Not really, but then again I have family members who work as nurses, engineers and in retail who are stuck working on or around the holidays as well, for a lot less pay. Aside from that, I don’t know if it’s the same reason why people run marathons and do those spartan races, but there is something to be said about finding satisfaction in the grind. But working with a good team where all the members buy into the grind makes a huge difference. On the opposite side of things, in my experience, when one or two people on transaction are not pulling their weight, that sucks because you have to do more and can ruin the dynamic for everyone. So, as has been said on this forum many times before, I think whether you enjoy big law is a combination of the people you work with and the mentality and expectations you take to the job in the first place.

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2651
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:35 am

RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.


FWIW, all my friends who did big4 washed out in like 1-2 years cause it was miserable. Big law friends, have on average, lasted longer.


Big 4 Analysts tend not to have 6 figure debts to pay.

User avatar
Catharsis&Crumpets
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:52 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Catharsis&Crumpets » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:41 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Vianco wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:You may not earn "fuck you" money, but over 50% of practicing lawyers never will either.

LOL


We need more scientific data like this on TLS.


Well we know that most lawyers don’t work at big firms or in fed positions, state/municipal governments only have so many chief counsel spots, and for every successful small firm or niche boutique there are likely several that aren’t. When you consider the vast oversupply of lawyers currently saturating the market, new graduates flooding in every year, and the seemingly permanent contraction of the legal market, to guess that over 50% of lawyers aren’t earning “fuck you” money is actually pretty conservative. But I’m actually feeling the snark, so keep it coming keyboard warriors.

jd20132013
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby jd20132013 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:03 am

i think you may have actually missed the snarky part of the post

User avatar
unlicensedpotato
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:16 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby unlicensedpotato » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:33 am

Winter is Coming wrote:Depending on how well the M&A people communicate, those groups often get "please turn comments ASAP" on documents they have very little context about seemingly out of nowhere.


+1. Still better than being in corporate, but this is one of the unpleasant parts.

User avatar
pancakes3
Posts: 6140
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:15 pm

to me, fuck you money is reaching financial escape velocity and i'd say about 1% of lawyers reach that stratum.

BL associates may be living that young thousandaire life but $40 seemless orders != fuck you money.

Vianco
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Vianco » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:15 pm

Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Vianco wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:You may not earn "fuck you" money, but over 50% of practicing lawyers never will either.

LOL


We need more scientific data like this on TLS.


Well we know that most lawyers don’t work at big firms or in fed positions, state/municipal governments only have so many chief counsel spots, and for every successful small firm or niche boutique there are likely several that aren’t. When you consider the vast oversupply of lawyers currently saturating the market, new graduates flooding in every year, and the seemingly permanent contraction of the legal market, to guess that over 50% of lawyers aren’t earning “fuck you” money is actually pretty conservative. But I’m actually feeling the snark, so keep it coming keyboard warriors.


I just think the term "fuck you" money is hilarious.

SomewhatLearnedHand
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:18 pm

Vianco wrote:
I just think the term "fuck you" money is hilarious.


+1. Laugh every time

User avatar
Mr. Peanutbutter
Posts: 9347
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:06 pm

I feel like being a wage earner means by definition you don’t have fuck you money.

User avatar
Yugihoe
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Yugihoe » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:10 pm

Us suckers in big law for 10 years saving away in those 401ks for FU money

1styearlateral
Posts: 692
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby 1styearlateral » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:46 pm

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:
EliotAlderson wrote:Go to niche/specialist practice area, profit, have a life.


It can be a crap shoot. Some of the specialist groups at my firm get severely understaffed from time to time. Also there are often like 3-5 partners firm wide. Some of these niche groups develop real hard working cultures and bill more hours than the general corporate side. I have also had to call them at 3:30 am to wake them up to review reps and disclosure schedules. Was told to just keep calling until they answered. So it's not all great.

Yeah, this is definitely true. Troutman's NYC super-niche construction group is like 4 associates and 1 partner and the associates bill like 2400-2600 hours/year.

jd20132013
Posts: 1253
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:41 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby jd20132013 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:50 pm

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I feel like being a wage earner means by definition you don’t have fuck you money.



Correct!

SomewhatLearnedHand
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:59 pm

jd20132013 wrote:
Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I feel like being a wage earner means by definition you don’t have fuck you money.



Correct!


I always associated fuck you money with c-suite, celebrities etc who are into the hundreds of millions. Basically when you can't be one-upped by someone richer than you save for your very few peers and billionaires.

User avatar
SmokeytheBear
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:08 pm

SomewhatLearnedHand wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I feel like being a wage earner means by definition you don’t have fuck you money.



Correct!


I always associated fuck you money with c-suite, celebrities etc who are into the hundreds of millions. Basically when you can't be one-upped by someone richer than you save for your very few peers and billionaires.


I always though of it as more subjective. Like, if someone at my job told me to do something and i didnt want to do it I could say "fuck you" and leave and quit and know that I have enough money cushion that not having the job for a bit wouldn't matter. But I guess that's because a job is what is the biggest impediment in my world.

PorscheFanatic
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby PorscheFanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:14 pm

I feel like FU money is just enough that on any given day if you feel like it, you could say f**k you, quit your job and walk out with 0 stress because you have enough saved to maintain your current lifestyle for years to come.

Anonymous User
Posts: 302599
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:35 pm

I feel like it's not hard to have a cushion saved for at least a couple of years, especially if you move to a low cost-of-living place. The issue is that a resume gap or break generally seems to be career suicide, unless you have a socially acceptable reason (like raising kids for a few years, etc.).

User avatar
SmokeytheBear
Posts: 856
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I feel like it's not hard to have a cushion saved for at least a couple of years, especially if you move to a low cost-of-living place. The issue is that a resume gap or break generally seems to be career suicide, unless you have a socially acceptable reason (like raising kids for a few years, etc.).


getting blitzed on pills on Ko Pha-ngan for a year is socially acceptable if you ask me.

User avatar
Yugihoe
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Yugihoe » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:58 pm

Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.

User avatar
pancakes3
Posts: 6140
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:49 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:02 pm

minimum financial escape velocity is usually cited at between $7.5-10 mil in assets.

dabigchina
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:22 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby dabigchina » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:30 pm

Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.

4% withdrawal rate is based on Trinity Study, which assumes a 30 year withdrawal period IIRC. If you are trying to retire at 40, it's prob safer to assume 45 withdrawal period IMO. I wouldn't want to be in a position where I need to put a bullet in my head because I ran out of money at 70.

dabigchina
Posts: 1172
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:22 am

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby dabigchina » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
nealric wrote:
Catharsis&Crumpets wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:So, does anyone actually LIKE biglaw?

Or have you accepted the shitty lifestyle because you’re willing to accept the sacrifices for the money?


Sure as fuck beats shitlawl with the same amount of sacrifice for less money, so I get why most don't complain. The bigger questions is whether anyone outside of government practice and niche boutiques actually enjoys the practice of law. Not the academic exercise of practicing law, mind you, but the day in and day out. But that's beyond the scope of this thread.


The broader question is who enjoys working in the first place? Most jobs involve some unpleasantness.


True, but I don't know too many accountants getting midnight phone calls from clients regarding their clients' latest, "urgent" brain fart.


On the topic of enjoying a job, who in the world truly enjoys accounting? Accounting has to be the most tedious field. What I hear from people who did accounting before law school is that big 4 accountants work long hours for a lot less pay. The job is absolutely boring, the hours/pay mix is worse.. I don't know what's better about accounting.

I was a fairly senior big4 accountant. It had its ups and downs. Overall, I'd say it probably has the about the same level of shittiness as law. Like law, there is enough variation in experiences where one guy can absolutely have a great experience in accounting, while another guy, who started at the same time, in the same office, at the same firm, in the same practice group can get absolutely destroyed.

tl;dr. No, accounting isn't that much better.

User avatar
smokeylarue
Posts: 488
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby smokeylarue » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:10 pm

Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.


Dude that is not FU money. That is more like minimum needed to survive.

SomewhatLearnedHand
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:14 pm

smokeylarue wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.


Dude that is not FU money. That is more like minimum needed to survive.


I didn't think so either but I had to google and it seems like FU money just means you are financially secure enough you can tell anyone to fuck off (i.e. your employer) and be fine. I always thought it was someone who was so rich they could just do whatever the fuck they wanted.

PorscheFanatic
Posts: 81
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:19 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby PorscheFanatic » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:24 pm

SomewhatLearnedHand wrote:
smokeylarue wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.


Dude that is not FU money. That is more like minimum needed to survive.


I didn't think so either but I had to google and it seems like FU money just means you are financially secure enough you can tell anyone to fuck off (i.e. your employer) and be fine. I always thought it was someone who was so rich they could just do whatever the fuck they wanted.


Yes, google's definition is different from the definitions in the media. Ex: the show Billions, "what's the point of having FU money if you don't get to say FU."

Obviously, that show is referring to more than just financial security, they define it more as "runs a large hedge fund and owns the biggest house in all of the hamptons" kind of money

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 2042
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: People who like Biglaw

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:05 pm

smokeylarue wrote:
Yugihoe wrote:Fuck you money is having enough saved where you can live off the safe withdrawl rate from your investments without needing a job (I.e. Where the principal balance does not decrease). Some people say the rate is 4% (plus inflation). So I'd need 2million, though that amount varies for other people.


Dude that is not FU money. That is more like minimum needed to survive.


A 4% return—which is conservative—is $80k a year, with no supplemental income from something you might actually like, without ever touching the principal.

If you “need” $80k a year to “survive” despite having no job-related constraints on where to live, you’re the kind of person who’s bound to keep working in the vain hope that the next financial milestone will finally lift you from your misery. But it never will. So congrats on making service partner.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.