Gift Giving

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Gift Giving

Poll ended at Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:01 pm

Gift Card
14
61%
Packaged Gift
5
22%
Some Packaged, some card
4
17%
 
Total votes: 23

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sublime

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby sublime » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:36 am

JFC, I hate this profession.

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:14 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:Godammit, every damn year this thread just makes me lose hope.

Here's an idea, learn to use your damn assistant because it'll make you a better lawyer. Stop by and exchange words once in a while because it'll make you a better person.

And this is not a "tip" (!!!), it is not part of their compensation package, it is a HOLIDAY GIFT for a person who is in your life. And yes, it is sort of expected, which is not all that weird because so are a lot of holiday gifts! And no, cash (or gift card) is not a "weird" gift, it's the best call for a lot of people outside your friends and immediate family, just like when you give your nephew $25 because who the hell knows what 11 year old boys want nowadays. Why is this so hard?!


I'm a senior associate who moved here from a European country, I have been here 3 years and I still struggle with this. Why is this so hard? Because this kind of "gifting" is completely alien to me. My family doesn't celebrate Christmas and there isn't anyone within my friends/family circle for whom I buy gifts of this value (at senior associate the standard is in the several hundreds for a secretary). Some PPs have mentioned pooling money for shared secretaries - I wish my firm did this; in fact, I wish my firm just said, "you need to pay $500 (or whatever) for assistant gifts" (a bit like my kids' schools have room parents who collect money for collective gifts for the teachers) because I feel like there is a huge range of what people at a more senior level give their secretaries; I'm probably at the lower end of it but I really don't know; and the whole idea of giving someone I work with a wad of cash at the end of the year is, for me, extremely awkward and odd. When the amount gets higher, it does start to feel like a bonus, and I think it's great if she gets a bonus but I can't see why I'd be responsible for paying that rather than the partners, and also for her sake why her bonus should be left up to me and the others she works for. I also don't use my secretary very much, though I don't feel like that is particularly relevant. Basically, I find it all really uncomfortable. Where I used to work, in my home country, you give your secretary a bottle of wine/box of chocolates and take her out for a nice lunch. Yes, I know that given the choice a secretary would probably choose to have the money instead of having to go out to lunch with a lawyer, but the point isn't to just pay her, but to treat her to something and to enjoy spending some time with her. And yes, I know I'm in a different country and culture now and I have to get used to it, but just offering my perspective.

nerd1

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby nerd1 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:25 pm

PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Godammit, every damn year this thread just makes me lose hope.

Here's an idea, learn to use your damn assistant because it'll make you a better lawyer. Stop by and exchange words once in a while because it'll make you a better person.

And this is not a "tip" (!!!), it is not part of their compensation package, it is a HOLIDAY GIFT for a person who is in your life. And yes, it is sort of expected, which is not all that weird because so are a lot of holiday gifts! And no, cash (or gift card) is not a "weird" gift, it's the best call for a lot of people outside your friends and immediate family, just like when you give your nephew $25 because who the hell knows what 11 year old boys want nowadays. Why is this so hard?!


It's really not, but our profession is filled with robotic sociopaths who don't understand basic societal norms


It's actually the opposite. This profession is filled with robots who blindly follow "basic societal norms" and are obsessed with fitting in.

There is nothing wrong with critically questioning fundamental societal norms. After all, so many of the things that we blindly do are irrational or inefficient if one thinks deep about them. I believe that no matter what we do for a living, we should keep thinking independently.


You're exactly the sociopathic nerd being referred to...I imagine social encounters often don't turn out well for you, considering you only make rational decisions.

Also, your point is just very interesting, because you want us to stop tipping secretaries, but you also somehow believe you're not upper class or poor or something, yet you work in Biglaw? Top 1%, sure, maybe not. But upper class (maybe just upper middle), especially by age group, certainly. Net worth doesn't necessarily affect your class level, because someone living in a $500,000 apartment that moved in yesterday has the same quality of life as their next door neighbor that's been living there for 50 years, though the neighbor will likely have a much higher net worth since neighbor has presumably paid off his mortgage balance and has equity. I'm sure society would not look at these 2 people and say one is upper class and one is destitute simply because of the person's negative net worth.


I am doing well. Thank you. I never said I only make rational decisions. I think it's perfectly okay for people to discuss about social conventions. I don't want to make any personal accusation at you, because I am not interested in you.

About your second point, that's plain fucking stupid. I didn't go to law school on a full ride. My debt is huge. So my net worth is negative.
If we are talking about standard of living, I barely spend time at home and I barely spend much money. If this life is what you call upper class life, then the upper class life that I am thinking is super super super upper class life?

albanach

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby albanach » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I'm a senior associate who moved here from a European country, I have been here 3 years and I still struggle with this. Why is this so hard? Because this kind of "gifting" is completely alien to me.


I'm an immigrant. While I celebrate Christmas, I've never been in employment position where I'd tip a secretary a decent amount of cash. Guess what, it doesn't matter.

You should know by now that there are cultural differences. It still feels strange to ask for the check at the end of a meal in a restaurant, rather than the bill. I ask for the check because it's what the server expects and it makes the interaction go more smoothly. Think if this as just another cultural anomaly.

If someone genuinely was struggling to make this gift, I'd understand. But at least in biglaw circles, that situation would be exceptional. All the other comments are spot on - if you feel you don't know your secretary well enough after three months to make a gift, you're not being efficient. Using your secretary will make you a better lawyer.

PorscheFanatic

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby PorscheFanatic » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:58 pm

nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Godammit, every damn year this thread just makes me lose hope.

Here's an idea, learn to use your damn assistant because it'll make you a better lawyer. Stop by and exchange words once in a while because it'll make you a better person.

And this is not a "tip" (!!!), it is not part of their compensation package, it is a HOLIDAY GIFT for a person who is in your life. And yes, it is sort of expected, which is not all that weird because so are a lot of holiday gifts! And no, cash (or gift card) is not a "weird" gift, it's the best call for a lot of people outside your friends and immediate family, just like when you give your nephew $25 because who the hell knows what 11 year old boys want nowadays. Why is this so hard?!


It's really not, but our profession is filled with robotic sociopaths who don't understand basic societal norms


It's actually the opposite. This profession is filled with robots who blindly follow "basic societal norms" and are obsessed with fitting in.

There is nothing wrong with critically questioning fundamental societal norms. After all, so many of the things that we blindly do are irrational or inefficient if one thinks deep about them. I believe that no matter what we do for a living, we should keep thinking independently.


You're exactly the sociopathic nerd being referred to...I imagine social encounters often don't turn out well for you, considering you only make rational decisions.

Also, your point is just very interesting, because you want us to stop tipping secretaries, but you also somehow believe you're not upper class or poor or something, yet you work in Biglaw? Top 1%, sure, maybe not. But upper class (maybe just upper middle), especially by age group, certainly. Net worth doesn't necessarily affect your class level, because someone living in a $500,000 apartment that moved in yesterday has the same quality of life as their next door neighbor that's been living there for 50 years, though the neighbor will likely have a much higher net worth since neighbor has presumably paid off his mortgage balance and has equity. I'm sure society would not look at these 2 people and say one is upper class and one is destitute simply because of the person's negative net worth.


I am doing well. Thank you. I never said I only make rational decisions. I think it's perfectly okay for people to discuss about social conventions. I don't want to make any personal accusation at you, because I am not interested in you.

About your second point, that's plain fucking stupid. I didn't go to law school on a full ride. My debt is huge. So my net worth is negative.
If we are talking about standard of living, I barely spend time at home and I barely spend much money. If this life is what you call upper class life, then the upper class life that I am thinking is super super super upper class life?


That's alright. I'll just concede your point, accept that we have different mindsets, and yours makes you a scrooge. Sorry you made a bad choice to go to law school and are shocked that you have to service your debt AND tip your secretary $100, all while working these long hours with no money to spend on yourself, even though it wouldn't be rational to do so (you know, cause debt and the forced holiday tip). THE HORROR!!!

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:01 pm

It makes me irrationally angry y’all keep calling it a tip.

katxyz

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby katxyz » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:06 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It makes me irrationally angry y’all keep calling it a tip.


Well, but what is it then? It's not just a gift because I don't give cash gifts in an (unofficially) mandated amount to my family and friends. At a senior level, it's also a much higher amount than I'd give to my family and friends. So I think it's something else and a tip seems closer to the truth.

nerd1

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby nerd1 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:12 pm

PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Godammit, every damn year this thread just makes me lose hope.

Here's an idea, learn to use your damn assistant because it'll make you a better lawyer. Stop by and exchange words once in a while because it'll make you a better person.

And this is not a "tip" (!!!), it is not part of their compensation package, it is a HOLIDAY GIFT for a person who is in your life. And yes, it is sort of expected, which is not all that weird because so are a lot of holiday gifts! And no, cash (or gift card) is not a "weird" gift, it's the best call for a lot of people outside your friends and immediate family, just like when you give your nephew $25 because who the hell knows what 11 year old boys want nowadays. Why is this so hard?!


It's really not, but our profession is filled with robotic sociopaths who don't understand basic societal norms


It's actually the opposite. This profession is filled with robots who blindly follow "basic societal norms" and are obsessed with fitting in.

There is nothing wrong with critically questioning fundamental societal norms. After all, so many of the things that we blindly do are irrational or inefficient if one thinks deep about them. I believe that no matter what we do for a living, we should keep thinking independently.


You're exactly the sociopathic nerd being referred to...I imagine social encounters often don't turn out well for you, considering you only make rational decisions.

Also, your point is just very interesting, because you want us to stop tipping secretaries, but you also somehow believe you're not upper class or poor or something, yet you work in Biglaw? Top 1%, sure, maybe not. But upper class (maybe just upper middle), especially by age group, certainly. Net worth doesn't necessarily affect your class level, because someone living in a $500,000 apartment that moved in yesterday has the same quality of life as their next door neighbor that's been living there for 50 years, though the neighbor will likely have a much higher net worth since neighbor has presumably paid off his mortgage balance and has equity. I'm sure society would not look at these 2 people and say one is upper class and one is destitute simply because of the person's negative net worth.


I am doing well. Thank you. I never said I only make rational decisions. I think it's perfectly okay for people to discuss about social conventions. I don't want to make any personal accusation at you, because I am not interested in you.

About your second point, that's plain fucking stupid. I didn't go to law school on a full ride. My debt is huge. So my net worth is negative.
If we are talking about standard of living, I barely spend time at home and I barely spend much money. If this life is what you call upper class life, then the upper class life that I am thinking is super super super upper class life?


That's alright. I'll just concede your point, accept that we have different mindsets, and yours makes you a scrooge. Sorry you made a bad choice to go to law school and are shocked that you have to service your debt AND tip your secretary $100, all while working these long hours with no money to spend on yourself, even though it wouldn't be rational to do so (you know, cause debt and the forced holiday tip). THE HORROR!!!


What the. Did you even my read my posts? I said I did have contact with my assistants and so did make a gift (not $100 though, not that wealthy).

I said it's irrational (in my view, not wise) for those stub years who never had contact with and so do not know their assistants to give pay them a $100 "bonus" when those assistants haven't yet done anything for them. This is true for many stubs that started in November. I started earlier than that.

Mind your own business and read what I write before replying.

PorscheFanatic

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby PorscheFanatic » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:22 pm

nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Godammit, every damn year this thread just makes me lose hope.

Here's an idea, learn to use your damn assistant because it'll make you a better lawyer. Stop by and exchange words once in a while because it'll make you a better person.

And this is not a "tip" (!!!), it is not part of their compensation package, it is a HOLIDAY GIFT for a person who is in your life. And yes, it is sort of expected, which is not all that weird because so are a lot of holiday gifts! And no, cash (or gift card) is not a "weird" gift, it's the best call for a lot of people outside your friends and immediate family, just like when you give your nephew $25 because who the hell knows what 11 year old boys want nowadays. Why is this so hard?!


It's really not, but our profession is filled with robotic sociopaths who don't understand basic societal norms


It's actually the opposite. This profession is filled with robots who blindly follow "basic societal norms" and are obsessed with fitting in.

There is nothing wrong with critically questioning fundamental societal norms. After all, so many of the things that we blindly do are irrational or inefficient if one thinks deep about them. I believe that no matter what we do for a living, we should keep thinking independently.


You're exactly the sociopathic nerd being referred to...I imagine social encounters often don't turn out well for you, considering you only make rational decisions.

Also, your point is just very interesting, because you want us to stop tipping secretaries, but you also somehow believe you're not upper class or poor or something, yet you work in Biglaw? Top 1%, sure, maybe not. But upper class (maybe just upper middle), especially by age group, certainly. Net worth doesn't necessarily affect your class level, because someone living in a $500,000 apartment that moved in yesterday has the same quality of life as their next door neighbor that's been living there for 50 years, though the neighbor will likely have a much higher net worth since neighbor has presumably paid off his mortgage balance and has equity. I'm sure society would not look at these 2 people and say one is upper class and one is destitute simply because of the person's negative net worth.


I am doing well. Thank you. I never said I only make rational decisions. I think it's perfectly okay for people to discuss about social conventions. I don't want to make any personal accusation at you, because I am not interested in you.

About your second point, that's plain fucking stupid. I didn't go to law school on a full ride. My debt is huge. So my net worth is negative.
If we are talking about standard of living, I barely spend time at home and I barely spend much money. If this life is what you call upper class life, then the upper class life that I am thinking is super super super upper class life?


That's alright. I'll just concede your point, accept that we have different mindsets, and yours makes you a scrooge. Sorry you made a bad choice to go to law school and are shocked that you have to service your debt AND tip your secretary $100, all while working these long hours with no money to spend on yourself, even though it wouldn't be rational to do so (you know, cause debt and the forced holiday tip). THE HORROR!!!


What the. Did you even my read my posts? I said I did have contact with my assistants and so did make a gift (not $100 though, not that wealthy).

I said it's irrational (in my view, not wise) for those stub years who never had contact with and so do not know their assistants to give pay them a $100 "bonus" when those assistants haven't yet done anything for them. This is true for many stubs that started in November. I started earlier than that.

Mind your own business and read what I write before replying.


Sorry, scrooge in attitude, even if not in practice. You're literally complaining that a stub would have to give $100. That's absurd dude lol.

Danger Zone

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby Danger Zone » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:32 pm

Please stop quoting me in this godforsaken thread
Last edited by Danger Zone on Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EliotAlderson

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby EliotAlderson » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:38 pm

This thread makes me smile. Posters saying stay out of my business yet posting it on the interwebz. Others with a fascination with upper class cars (that or a midlife crisis car) knocking others over the definition of upper class. Though upper upper class would go with a Bentley

nerd1

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby nerd1 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:39 pm

PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
PorscheFanatic wrote:
nerd1 wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:
It's really not, but our profession is filled with robotic sociopaths who don't understand basic societal norms


It's actually the opposite. This profession is filled with robots who blindly follow "basic societal norms" and are obsessed with fitting in.

There is nothing wrong with critically questioning fundamental societal norms. After all, so many of the things that we blindly do are irrational or inefficient if one thinks deep about them. I believe that no matter what we do for a living, we should keep thinking independently.


You're exactly the sociopathic nerd being referred to...I imagine social encounters often don't turn out well for you, considering you only make rational decisions.

Also, your point is just very interesting, because you want us to stop tipping secretaries, but you also somehow believe you're not upper class or poor or something, yet you work in Biglaw? Top 1%, sure, maybe not. But upper class (maybe just upper middle), especially by age group, certainly. Net worth doesn't necessarily affect your class level, because someone living in a $500,000 apartment that moved in yesterday has the same quality of life as their next door neighbor that's been living there for 50 years, though the neighbor will likely have a much higher net worth since neighbor has presumably paid off his mortgage balance and has equity. I'm sure society would not look at these 2 people and say one is upper class and one is destitute simply because of the person's negative net worth.


I am doing well. Thank you. I never said I only make rational decisions. I think it's perfectly okay for people to discuss about social conventions. I don't want to make any personal accusation at you, because I am not interested in you.

About your second point, that's plain fucking stupid. I didn't go to law school on a full ride. My debt is huge. So my net worth is negative.
If we are talking about standard of living, I barely spend time at home and I barely spend much money. If this life is what you call upper class life, then the upper class life that I am thinking is super super super upper class life?


That's alright. I'll just concede your point, accept that we have different mindsets, and yours makes you a scrooge. Sorry you made a bad choice to go to law school and are shocked that you have to service your debt AND tip your secretary $100, all while working these long hours with no money to spend on yourself, even though it wouldn't be rational to do so (you know, cause debt and the forced holiday tip). THE HORROR!!!


What the. Did you even my read my posts? I said I did have contact with my assistants and so did make a gift (not $100 though, not that wealthy).

I said it's irrational (in my view, not wise) for those stub years who never had contact with and so do not know their assistants to give pay them a $100 "bonus" when those assistants haven't yet done anything for them. This is true for many stubs that started in November. I started earlier than that.

Mind your own business and read what I write before replying.


Sorry, scrooge in attitude, even if not in practice. You're literally complaining that a stub would have to give $100. That's absurd dude lol.


You talk like $100 is nothing. Well, my firm and many others pool money for giving a gift to assistants. No stub year, as far as I know, paid that much. In fact, $50 was the standard for all juniors (not just stub years). I've heard some donate $100 or more but they are not stub years.

If you are just rich and so think 100 is nothing, get out of your bubble. If you are a very altruistic person, good for you! Personally, I would rather give that much money to my parents or siblings.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It makes me irrationally angry y’all keep calling it a tip.


Well, but what is it then? It's not just a gift because I don't give cash gifts in an (unofficially) mandated amount to my family and friends. At a senior level, it's also a much higher amount than I'd give to my family and friends. So I think it's something else and a tip seems closer to the truth.


It’s a Christmas/end of year gift ffs. A tip is a gratuity. You are not giving your secretaries a gratuity. You don’t even have to give cash, but it’s far and away the preferred gift (I’d rather have $50 than a nice bottle of wine). Whether any of you degenerates like it or not, you are considered *supervisors* to secretaries and legal assistants and it is customary for gifts to flow down.

katxyz

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby katxyz » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:46 pm

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It makes me irrationally angry y’all keep calling it a tip.


Well, but what is it then? It's not just a gift because I don't give cash gifts in an (unofficially) mandated amount to my family and friends. At a senior level, it's also a much higher amount than I'd give to my family and friends. So I think it's something else and a tip seems closer to the truth.


It’s a Christmas/end of year gift ffs. A tip is a gratuity. You are not giving your secretaries a gratuity. You don’t even have to give cash, but it’s far and away the preferred gift (I’d rather have $50 than a nice bottle of wine). Whether any of you degenerates like it or not, you are considered *supervisors* to secretaries and legal assistants and it is customary for gifts to flow down.



You've givena synonym for "tip" but I'm not sure how it clarifies anything. A tip, or a gratuity, is a gift of money over and above payment due for service. That's exactly what this is. I'm very happy to give a gift and would always do so. A gift is a nice bottle of wine. A envelope with $500 is something else.

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TooMuchTuna

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby TooMuchTuna » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:48 pm

Way too much abuse of the Anon function here. Own your positions on gift giving TLSers!

ETA: Maybe it's just the same anon above me, repeatedly using the Anon function to argue semantics.
Last edited by TooMuchTuna on Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LaLiLuLeLo wrote:It makes me irrationally angry y’all keep calling it a tip.


Well, but what is it then? It's not just a gift because I don't give cash gifts in an (unofficially) mandated amount to my family and friends. At a senior level, it's also a much higher amount than I'd give to my family and friends. So I think it's something else and a tip seems closer to the truth.


It’s a Christmas/end of year gift ffs. A tip is a gratuity. You are not giving your secretaries a gratuity. You don’t even have to give cash, but it’s far and away the preferred gift (I’d rather have $50 than a nice bottle of wine). Whether any of you degenerates like it or not, you are considered *supervisors* to secretaries and legal assistants and it is customary for gifts to flow down.



You've givena synonym for "tip" but I'm not sure how it clarifies anything. A tip, or a gratuity, is a gift of money over and above payment due for service. That's exactly what this is. I'm very happy to give a gift and would always do so. A gift is a nice bottle of wine. A envelope with $500 is something else.


There are such things as cash gifts. Hell, I’m giving my niece cold hard cash for Christmas because I have no idea what to get her. Am I giving her a tip? I have no idea what to get my secretary and I know she’d appreciate cash a lot more than a bottle of wine. Is there a difference between a $500 bottle of wine and $500 cash? No, both are gifts.

ETA: apologies if giving a gift worth 0.2% of your salary is onerous :roll:
Last edited by LaLiLuLeLo on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

1styearlateral

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:53 pm

We gave cash out this year. Cash is king.

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landshoes

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby landshoes » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:38 pm

Of course your admin would PREFER cash. Everyone who has ever received a non-cash gift would prefer cash. Even if it's a gift you really like, you could have just bought it yourself if you had gotten cash. And if it's a gift you hate, well then it's a no brainer that cash would have been better. The only person who doesn't prefer cash is someone who thinks it was weird or insulting that they were given cash, and that is kind of the point.

But preferences be damned. I'd prefer to be 3 inches taller, but we can't always get what we want. Just because they'd like it better and/or it's the most convenient doesn't make it appropriate or socially acceptable. If it did, then giving cash would be acceptable as a gift in all situations, always. And it isn't.

So I will give my admin some very nice, non-cash gift. And if she doesn't like it, well, good thing she wasn't counting on it as part of her comp package.


No, people wouldn't prefer cash if it's socially unacceptable to gift/give cash. But they would prefer cash in this case, because it's both socially acceptable and generally more convenient for everyone for you to give cash.

If your argument is that it's socially unacceptable, so it doesn't matter if it's more convenient, fine, but that's not the situation here. It's socially acceptable to give cash, so just give cash like everyone else does and stop having a weird tantrum about it.

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landshoes

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby landshoes » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:47 pm

And who cares if it's a tip? So it's a tip. So what. I am in no way opposed to giving people tips for Christmas. Christmas is one of the few times of the year where you can buy people's affection and gratitude without looking like a condescending weirdo and I am fully in favor of taking advantage of that fact. Call it a tip, call it a cash gift, call it a gratuity, call it a bribe. I do not care. It is a mutually beneficial exchange of money for goodwill, which leaves no one worse off, and I am all about that.

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sublime

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby sublime » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:52 pm

Also, in the context of an associate making 205k a year (including a 15k bonus) $100 is nothing.

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:55 pm

landshoes wrote:
Of course your admin would PREFER cash. Everyone who has ever received a non-cash gift would prefer cash. Even if it's a gift you really like, you could have just bought it yourself if you had gotten cash. And if it's a gift you hate, well then it's a no brainer that cash would have been better. The only person who doesn't prefer cash is someone who thinks it was weird or insulting that they were given cash, and that is kind of the point.

But preferences be damned. I'd prefer to be 3 inches taller, but we can't always get what we want. Just because they'd like it better and/or it's the most convenient doesn't make it appropriate or socially acceptable. If it did, then giving cash would be acceptable as a gift in all situations, always. And it isn't.

So I will give my admin some very nice, non-cash gift. And if she doesn't like it, well, good thing she wasn't counting on it as part of her comp package.


No, people wouldn't prefer cash if it's socially unacceptable to gift/give cash. But they would prefer cash in this case, because it's both socially acceptable and generally more convenient for everyone for you to give cash.

If your argument is that it's socially unacceptable, so it doesn't matter if it's more convenient, fine, but that's not the situation here. It's socially acceptable to give cash, so just give cash like everyone else does and stop having a weird tantrum about it.


Same anon as before...

It's only "socially acceptable" in big law. It is not socially acceptable in any of the other industries I have worked in, and all of my friends who work in non legal white collar professions agree with me that giving your secretary cash is weird.

And I disagree with you. I think a senior associate giving me $100 cash is weird and inappropriate. I'd still prefer it as far as gifts go than something dumb they picked out for me that I don't want. But the point of gifts, contrary to what was suggested by someone else above, is not always receiver focused. It's often about the giver--to show someone you care; that you put in some effort/thought and took the time out of your day to do something for them.

Nothing says I couldn't be bothered to waste any more time on you than is humanly necessary than a few 100 dollar bills in an envelope. Unless you live in bumblefuck, your admin isn't going on a shopping spree with the couple hundred you give her. That's why it's not a bonus. It's an "I appreciate you gift."

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:58 pm

Is the 100 dollars a class year TLS/XO flame or what?

I'm 4th year and handing fat stacks of 20s seems weird as fuck. My old firm averaged ~50 a class year, but we had like 6-8 people to a secretary who would chip in.

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby lawhopeful100 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is the 100 dollars a class year TLS/XO flame or what?

I'm 4th year and handing fat stacks of 20s seems weird as fuck. My old firm averaged ~50 a class year, but we had like 6-8 people to a secretary who would chip in.

I'm at a firm with about 25 attorneys and starting my second year. My assistant also works for two other attorneys, one who is about a fifth year, other maybe seventh year. We just gave one card with cash, they each gave $100 and I gave $50. Most people at my office did similar pools. All the firm's associates also did a pool for the paralegals.

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landshoes

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby landshoes » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
landshoes wrote:
Of course your admin would PREFER cash. Everyone who has ever received a non-cash gift would prefer cash. Even if it's a gift you really like, you could have just bought it yourself if you had gotten cash. And if it's a gift you hate, well then it's a no brainer that cash would have been better. The only person who doesn't prefer cash is someone who thinks it was weird or insulting that they were given cash, and that is kind of the point.

But preferences be damned. I'd prefer to be 3 inches taller, but we can't always get what we want. Just because they'd like it better and/or it's the most convenient doesn't make it appropriate or socially acceptable. If it did, then giving cash would be acceptable as a gift in all situations, always. And it isn't.

So I will give my admin some very nice, non-cash gift. And if she doesn't like it, well, good thing she wasn't counting on it as part of her comp package.


No, people wouldn't prefer cash if it's socially unacceptable to gift/give cash. But they would prefer cash in this case, because it's both socially acceptable and generally more convenient for everyone for you to give cash.

If your argument is that it's socially unacceptable, so it doesn't matter if it's more convenient, fine, but that's not the situation here. It's socially acceptable to give cash, so just give cash like everyone else does and stop having a weird tantrum about it.


Same anon as before...

It's only "socially acceptable" in big law. It is not socially acceptable in any of the other industries I have worked in, and all of my friends who work in non legal white collar professions agree with me that giving your secretary cash is weird.

And I disagree with you. I think a senior associate giving me $100 cash is weird and inappropriate. I'd still prefer it as far as gifts go than something dumb they picked out for me that I don't want. But the point of gifts, contrary to what was suggested by someone else above, is not always receiver focused. It's often about the giver--to show someone you care; that you put in some effort/thought and took the time out of your day to do something for them.

Nothing says I couldn't be bothered to waste any more time on you than is humanly necessary than a few 100 dollar bills in an envelope. Unless you like in bumblefuck, your admin isn't going on a shopping spree with the couple hundred you give her. That's why it's not a bonus. It's an "I appreciate you gift."


Ok so what's your point? It's socially acceptable. I don't care about your friends in other fields. We are in this field. So what's the problem? It sounds like you think it shouldn't be socially acceptable because you should care more/know more about your secretary. And you argue that recipients prefer purchased gifts over cash. But you yourself have argued that recipients prefer cash at all times. (Not true, but you yourself said it). You also already said that you don't care enough about your secretary's subjective preference for cash to comply with that preference. How could it be more thoughtful to give someone a gift that they prefer less? You're not even planning to give a cash gift plus something that shows you care. Instead, you plan to bypass the recipient's preferences entirely. So your assertion that your distaste for the practice is about the recipient's feelings seems specious.

In fact, given the wide range of arguments that you are forwarding here, which are contradictory, it seems like you have no rational reason for disliking this practice. Instead, your issue stems from a totally irrational personal distaste for this particular practice.

It's fine for you to have a personal distaste for this practice. I, personally, do not care how you feel about it. You do you. But where you err is when you try to twist your personal distaste into some kind of reasoned moral argument against the practice. The reality is that cash is valued highly as a gift in this scenario because it's both socially acceptable and convenient for the recipient. Your personal feelings about it are completely irrelevant to its acceptability as a practice. Furthermore, to the extent that you plan to deprive your secretary of his/her preferred gift, and instead replace it with something that you think he/she should want, you're being kind of a dick.

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sublime

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Re: Gift Giving

Postby sublime » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is the 100 dollars a class year TLS/XO flame or what?

I'm 4th year and handing fat stacks of 20s seems weird as fuck. My old firm averaged ~50 a class year, but we had like 6-8 people to a secretary who would chip in.


That's the expectation at the large NYC firm I am at. And then half that to your backup admin.



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