What do we do now? SA strike-outs

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Anonymous User
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What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:12 am

Ok, let's say you struck out of all OCI options and you are now a 2L going into finals. What should we REALLY be doing now? All these threads say to apply to small and mid-size firms, but it seems they're all full or not accepting applications anymore. Do more of them open themselves up in the spring? Or has the private boat sailed?

If we are still hoping to get some private gig when we graduate, what gov't positions are most helpful meanwhile? Is the in-house move too risky? What really shuts us out of other options later?

Trying to realistically plan from now on...

Thanks!

Anonymous User
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:20 am

Anonymous User wrote:Ok, let's say you struck out of all OCI options and you are now a 2L going into finals. What should we REALLY be doing now? All these threads say to apply to small and mid-size firms, but it seems they're all full or not accepting applications anymore. Do more of them open themselves up in the spring? Or has the private boat sailed?

If we are still hoping to get some private gig when we graduate, what gov't positions are most helpful meanwhile? Is the in-house move too risky? What really shuts us out of other options later?

Trying to realistically plan from now on...

Thanks!


Maybe work on an externship next semester? AUSA's office? SEC Honors for the summer? Source your friends at other schools for Symplicity postings, maybe. I know my school still has a good chunk of boutiques available. I know people who interned with judges for 2L and ended up getting great rec letters for clerkships. Don't lose hope!

TTTTescapee
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby TTTTescapee » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:44 am

Great post as I’m in the same situation. Can’t really afford to work for free during the summer but those are the only positions I find.

Anonymous User
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:23 am

If you were even remotely interested in litigation, I would bust my ass getting good grades and try to apply for clerkships.

Anonymous User
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:53 pm

TTTTescapee wrote:Great post as I’m in the same situation. Can’t really afford to work for free during the summer but those are the only positions I find.


Same situation. Not sure if I should still mass mail, since most firms have already completed their hiring, even midlaws.

SomewhatLearnedHand
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you were even remotely interested in litigation, I would bust my ass getting good grades and try to apply for clerkships.


I was gunning for a firm gig and also struck out, so I know next to nothing about clerkships. Whats the hiring timeline like for these? If I were looking at trying to get one for this coming summer, is it too late at this point?

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:07 pm

SomewhatLearnedHand wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you were even remotely interested in litigation, I would bust my ass getting good grades and try to apply for clerkships.


I was gunning for a firm gig and also struck out, so I know next to nothing about clerkships. Whats the hiring timeline like for these? If I were looking at trying to get one for this coming summer, is it too late at this point?


Clerkships aren't summer jobs. Depending on when you want to start the clerkship, judges may be taking apps now. Most apps on OSCAR right now are for 2019 or 2020, but I've seen a few 2018 openings popping up.

SomewhatLearnedHand
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:31 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
SomewhatLearnedHand wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you were even remotely interested in litigation, I would bust my ass getting good grades and try to apply for clerkships.


I was gunning for a firm gig and also struck out, so I know next to nothing about clerkships. Whats the hiring timeline like for these? If I were looking at trying to get one for this coming summer, is it too late at this point?


Clerkships aren't summer jobs. Depending on when you want to start the clerkship, judges may be taking apps now. Most apps on OSCAR right now are for 2019 or 2020, but I've seen a few 2018 openings popping up.


How competitive is it to clerk for a district court judge? Say on the SDNY? Please excuse my ignorance.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:43 pm

Not trying to jump all over you, at all, but SDNY is probably the most competitive district court clerkship in the country, so you need top credentials. People will be able to give you a better idea of whether a clerkship is realistic if you give some sense of your grades/school, though don't feel you have to share that at all if you're not comfortable.

(The idea behind applying for clerkships if you strike out at OCI is that you get something lined up for graduation that looks great on your resume, is good experience, and gives you more time/another chance to line up biglaw, if that's what you want. A clerkship isn't an automatic ticket to a biglaw job, but it is another chance. Especially depending on why you struck out - if you have the grades/school pedigree for biglaw but maybe had some interviewing issues or bid poorly, then you will have a better chance at fixing your issues and getting into biglaw. If biglaw was always a stretch for you, a clerkship may not fix that, but it can help. I've also known a number of people who interned for judges their 2L summer, clerked, and went on to biglaw jobs, but this was in a smaller market than NYC so it may function differently.)

I don't personally have experience with biglaw/T14 hiring, so this may not apply, but based on my experience seeing people get non-biglaw firm jobs, things open up at various times - there isn't necessarily a predictable timeline. It's often based on when they decide they need someone, and stuff could open up between now and next summer.

SomewhatLearnedHand
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:51 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not trying to jump all over you, at all, but SDNY is probably the most competitive district court clerkship in the country, so you need top credentials. People will be able to give you a better idea of whether a clerkship is realistic if you give some sense of your grades/school, though don't feel you have to share that at all if you're not comfortable.

(The idea behind applying for clerkships if you strike out at OCI is that you get something lined up for graduation that looks great on your resume, is good experience, and gives you more time/another chance to line up biglaw, if that's what you want. A clerkship isn't an automatic ticket to a biglaw job, but it is another chance. Especially depending on why you struck out - if you have the grades/school pedigree for biglaw but maybe had some interviewing issues or bid poorly, then you will have a better chance at fixing your issues and getting into biglaw. If biglaw was always a stretch for you, a clerkship may not fix that, but it can help. I've also known a number of people who interned for judges their 2L summer, clerked, and went on to biglaw jobs, but this was in a smaller market than NYC so it may function differently.)

I don't personally have experience with biglaw/T14 hiring, so this may not apply, but based on my experience seeing people get non-biglaw firm jobs, things open up at various times - there isn't necessarily a predictable timeline. It's often based on when they decide they need someone, and stuff could open up between now and next summer.


Ahh, gotcha- sorry, like I mentioned I know nothing about clerkships. I was top 15% at a T1 and transferred into the t13, but was unable to OCI at either school. Mass mail got me some big law call backs but ultimately no offer. Would a clerkship be advantageous to me given the circumstances? Would I even have a shot at something that would help with the possibility of Big law down the road? Ive been big law or bust up to this point and am looking for anything that might give me another shot.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:58 pm

Not being able to do OCI at either school is a terrible position to be in, I'm sorry. Personally I think a clerkship always helps more than it hurts (there's maybe some debate if you are diehard corporate/transactional or bust, since clerkships are way more applicable to lit). It sounds like you could have a shot but you would likely have to apply widely and it would probably also depend on your grades at the new school. Clerkships tend to be very grade picky, unless you make a connection that can get you an in with a judge. The other issue is that you will need letters of rec from profs so you will need to either contact profs from your 1L school or make connections with profs at your current school fairly quickly.

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:34 pm

The biggest thing you can do as a 2L without a job is knock it out of the park grade-wise.

A TON of jobs opened up for 2L summer during spring, including a lot of in-house gigs that paid $ (not $$$$), but $.

So go kick finals's ass.

BTW, some biglaw firms are disorganized and do hire late too. It can happen. Check indeed.com, linkedin, google searches and websites. There are a lot of city and state agencies too. Don't dispair. I promise that you will find a job! PROMISE.

If it gives you any hope, I found my biglaw 2L summer gig in January of 2L year. My firm's [satellite] office hired off-cycle. Do not give up hope.

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Pokemon
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Pokemon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:11 pm

If it gives anyone any hope I found my biglaw herb post-graduation. For the summer of 2l I worked at a boutique lit firm which I found in April or May.

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Nebby » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:33 pm

Biglaw herb, eh? I heard it's dank af

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:37 pm

Nebby wrote:Biglaw herb, eh? I heard it's dank af


hands down, dopest dope

cannonball
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby cannonball » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:34 pm

I've noticed that at my school (T50) some really cool opportunities tend to show up in February and March. I've noticed these positions pop up for both summer and post-graduation positions, so don't lose hope. Remain competitive academically and experientially and apply to these positions if you are interested. As it turns out most firms/companies don't think hiring two-years out is a great idea and some of these firms/companies really are great opportunities... go figure.

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:21 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not being able to do OCI at either school is a terrible position to be in, I'm sorry. Personally I think a clerkship always helps more than it hurts (there's maybe some debate if you are diehard corporate/transactional or bust, since clerkships are way more applicable to lit). It sounds like you could have a shot but you would likely have to apply widely and it would probably also depend on your grades at the new school. Clerkships tend to be very grade picky, unless you make a connection that can get you an in with a judge. The other issue is that you will need letters of rec from profs so you will need to either contact profs from your 1L school or make connections with profs at your current school fairly quickly.


Back to what the original poster above was asking about clerkships, how can you tell what is considered a "better" clerkship, over others? For example, is clerking at a district court in say Maryland considered mediocre to say DC? I'm assuming this would effect how future employers take into consideration your experience?

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The biggest thing you can do as a 2L without a job is knock it out of the park grade-wise.

A TON of jobs opened up for 2L summer during spring, including a lot of in-house gigs that paid $ (not $$$$), but $.

So go kick finals's ass.

BTW, some biglaw firms are disorganized and do hire late too. It can happen. Check indeed.com, linkedin, google searches and websites. There are a lot of city and state agencies too. Don't dispair. I promise that you will find a job! PROMISE.

If it gives you any hope, I found my biglaw 2L summer gig in January of 2L year. My firm's [satellite] office hired off-cycle. Do not give up hope.


You area a kind kind person for this. Hoping your luck rubs off

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not being able to do OCI at either school is a terrible position to be in, I'm sorry. Personally I think a clerkship always helps more than it hurts (there's maybe some debate if you are diehard corporate/transactional or bust, since clerkships are way more applicable to lit). It sounds like you could have a shot but you would likely have to apply widely and it would probably also depend on your grades at the new school. Clerkships tend to be very grade picky, unless you make a connection that can get you an in with a judge. The other issue is that you will need letters of rec from profs so you will need to either contact profs from your 1L school or make connections with profs at your current school fairly quickly.


Back to what the original poster above was asking about clerkships, how can you tell what is considered a "better" clerkship, over others? For example, is clerking at a district court in say Maryland considered mediocre to say DC? I'm assuming this would effect how future employers take into consideration your experience?


dinged

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not being able to do OCI at either school is a terrible position to be in, I'm sorry. Personally I think a clerkship always helps more than it hurts (there's maybe some debate if you are diehard corporate/transactional or bust, since clerkships are way more applicable to lit). It sounds like you could have a shot but you would likely have to apply widely and it would probably also depend on your grades at the new school. Clerkships tend to be very grade picky, unless you make a connection that can get you an in with a judge. The other issue is that you will need letters of rec from profs so you will need to either contact profs from your 1L school or make connections with profs at your current school fairly quickly.


Back to what the original poster above was asking about clerkships, how can you tell what is considered a "better" clerkship, over others? For example, is clerking at a district court in say Maryland considered mediocre to say DC? I'm assuming this would effect how future employers take into consideration your experience?

There is a traditional hierarchy that floats around TLS (COA > district court; SDNY/EDNY > other district courts) but it depends to some extent on your goals - if you want to work in Maryland, clerking in Maryland is arguably actually better than clerking in DC, since you get to know the court in Maryland, which is more relevant to employers in Maryland than courts elsewhere. If you want to go to trial, a district court clerkship is arguably more valuable than a COA clerkship. And any clerkship is impressive; it's not going to look *bad* to employers to clerk anywhere; they're all fairly hard to get.

The thing is, for people who have struck out, part of the value of a clerkship is that it gives you a year to network and make connections with potential employers, so personally I think that 1) worrying about "better" clerkships is sort of a waste of time (to be blunt: beggars can't be choosers), and 2) being local to where you want to work is very helpful. (Of course if that's NYC biglaw, being local is going to be really tough given that the NYC clerkships are probably the most competitive, but I think given the nature of NYC biglaw being local/close personal connections aren't as important as if you're aiming for a different market. But I'm speculating a little about NYC - no personal experience with that.)

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:43 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Not being able to do OCI at either school is a terrible position to be in, I'm sorry. Personally I think a clerkship always helps more than it hurts (there's maybe some debate if you are diehard corporate/transactional or bust, since clerkships are way more applicable to lit). It sounds like you could have a shot but you would likely have to apply widely and it would probably also depend on your grades at the new school. Clerkships tend to be very grade picky, unless you make a connection that can get you an in with a judge. The other issue is that you will need letters of rec from profs so you will need to either contact profs from your 1L school or make connections with profs at your current school fairly quickly.


Back to what the original poster above was asking about clerkships, how can you tell what is considered a "better" clerkship, over others? For example, is clerking at a district court in say Maryland considered mediocre to say DC? I'm assuming this would effect how future employers take into consideration your experience?

There is a traditional hierarchy that floats around TLS (COA > district court; SDNY/EDNY > other district courts) but it depends to some extent on your goals - if you want to work in Maryland, clerking in Maryland is arguably actually better than clerking in DC, since you get to know the court in Maryland, which is more relevant to employers in Maryland than courts elsewhere. If you want to go to trial, a district court clerkship is arguably more valuable than a COA clerkship. And any clerkship is impressive; it's not going to look *bad* to employers to clerk anywhere; they're all fairly hard to get.

The thing is, for people who have struck out, part of the value of a clerkship is that it gives you a year to network and make connections with potential employers, so personally I think that 1) worrying about "better" clerkships is sort of a waste of time (to be blunt: beggars can't be choosers), and 2) being local to where you want to work is very helpful. (Of course if that's NYC biglaw, being local is going to be really tough given that the NYC clerkships are probably the most competitive, but I think given the nature of NYC biglaw being local/close personal connections aren't as important as if you're aiming for a different market. But I'm speculating a little about NYC - no personal experience with that.)


SO helpful, thank you!

1styearlateral
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby 1styearlateral » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:26 am

People clerking in the SDNY/EDNY are not striking out at OCI. They go there after already having a 2L biglaw internship and offer but defer a year or two to clerk, or don’t have an offer yet because they interned at an agency or some other public service knowing full well that they will be getting snatched up before the end of their clerkship. It’s extremely calculated, and anyone who can land a SDNY clerkship could land an offer at any of the top firms in the country.

Maybe other “lesser” clerkships in flyover states are options for those who strike out but I wouldn’t plan on nabbing NY or CA just to keep busy while job hunting.

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:34 am

SDNY is more competitive than a lot of CoA clerkships so it’s really never a fallback. Flyover district clerkships are much more attainable and with good enough grades, some strong recs/writing sample, and a healthy helping of luck, it’s not impossible.

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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:39 am

So, for 2L summer while you cross your fingers for a clerkship when you graduate what's the most ideal option meanwhile?

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: What do we do now? SA strike-outs

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:53 am

More options will open up throughout the spring. Keep MMing, keep watching symplicity, try doing some networking in desired markets.




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