do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:39 pm

BernieTrump wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:
star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.


Do you ever get to see each other?



Most dual biglaw couples don't see one another. There is a person in my dept who sits near me and fights with his wife loudly on phone every. single. night. about who will go send the nanny home, and how neither of them can do that (at 830pm!) because their work will keep them there all night. These fights are sometimes on speakerphone, and his wife sobs a lot during these bouts.


lol what losers. They have the choice to leave, but alas, neither of them have done it.

Mr. Peanutbutter

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:34 am

anyriotgirl wrote:
AntipodeanPhil wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"


why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

I wondered the same. The Of Counsels I know have it pretty good by big law standards—they make what senior associates make (or more) but without the partner-track/up-and-out pressures that plague senior associates.

Same at my firm. They make $400k+, don't have to worry about business development, etc, and probably don't bill crazy hours - the ones I know are extremely good at delegating. I would honestly prefer that to partner.


my firm has of counsels, which are basically semi-retired partners, and special counsels, a few of whom have carved out a niche and have it semi-good, but more of whom are working insane hours and never going to make partner or are gunning to try to claw their way up to partner

This is the exact opposite of what I’ve observed in my group. All but one special counsel have carved out their specialties/value add, and none of them seem to have any interest at all in transitioning to partner.
Last edited by Mr. Peanutbutter on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mr. Peanutbutter

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:37 am

I’ll prob wash out befor esenior associate status, and yeah I constantly look at them and marvel at their resilience. Most of them are generally good people and are pleasant to work with despite their completely unrealistic lifestyles


Then again by the time I’ve been doing this for five years and get good at it and am still hopelessly single and only have my own bad habits to tend to I guess I could see myself giving in to the only people in my life who seem to care take me under biglaw
Last edited by Mr. Peanutbutter on Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:59 am

As an actual senior associate in NY big law... it’s kind of the best job I’ve had yet (and I worked outside of law first)? So long as you’re busy enough, no one really cares if you bill 2200 or 2400 or 2800 because you’re not getting made or not-made based on an extra $500K of revenue. Better yet, I mostly work directly with clients so normally don’t have to work late because someone else didn’t get me a markup until 9pm or whatever.

It has its own new set of stresses - trying (and failing) to convince clients to build a relationship when you’re just an associate is a pain, networking is a pain, making sure not to piss anyone off is a pain. But my hours are probably slightly lower and certainly way more regular, there’s less busy work and less being ordered around. And the pay is twice as high.

I can see why someone might not like it, though. There’s a lot more thinking involved and a lot less clear guidelines on what to do. Being a junior is plug and play - show up and do the 9 things you’ve been told. Being a senior is like showing up to work with a blank pad on the table. It can be scary.

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby jd20132013 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:30 am

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I’ll prob wash out befor esenior associate status, and yeah I constantly look at them and marvel at their resilience. Most of them are generally good people and are pleasant to work with despite their completely unrealistic lifestyles


Then again by the time I’ve been doing this for five years and get good at it and am still hopelessly single and only have my own bad habits to tend to I guess I could see myself giving in to the only people in my life who seem to care take me under biglaw


embrace the dark

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby JenDarby » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:58 am

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I’ll prob wash out befor esenior associate status, and yeah I constantly look at them and marvel at their resilience. Most of them are generally good people and are pleasant to work with despite their completely unrealistic lifestyles


Then again by the time I’ve been doing this for five years and get good at it and am still hopelessly single and only have my own bad habits to tend to I guess I could see myself giving in to the only people in my life who seem to care take me under biglaw

I better be back in NYC by the time you make partner
Last edited by JenDarby on Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jd20132013

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby jd20132013 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:29 am

BernieTrump wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:
star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.


Do you ever get to see each other?



Most dual biglaw couples don't see one another. There is a person in my dept who sits near me and fights with his wife loudly on phone every. single. night. about who will go send the nanny home, and how neither of them can do that (at 830pm!) because their work will keep them there all night. These fights are sometimes on speakerphone, and his wife sobs a lot during these bouts.



Jesus Christ

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby SplitMyPants » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:15 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"


why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

I wondered the same. The Of Counsels I know have it pretty good by big law standards—they make what senior associates make (or more) but without the partner-track/up-and-out pressures that plague senior associates.

Same at my firm. They make $400k+, don't have to worry about business development, etc, and probably don't bill crazy hours - the ones I know are extremely good at delegating. I would honestly prefer that to partner.


all through law school i always joked about wanting to get on that "of counsel"-track...

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby gregfootball2001 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:10 pm

anyriotgirl wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote:
star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.


Do you ever get to see each other?

Sure. She puts the kiddo to bed around 8, and I get home pretty soon after that, so we see each other till we go to bed. Plus breakfast in the morning most days, and of course weekends. I'm in midlaw, not biglaw, so my weekends are typically 90%+ free.

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As an actual senior associate in NY big law... it’s kind of the best job I’ve had yet (and I worked outside of law first)? So long as you’re busy enough, no one really cares if you bill 2200 or 2400 or 2800 because you’re not getting made or not-made based on an extra $500K of revenue. Better yet, I mostly work directly with clients so normally don’t have to work late because someone else didn’t get me a markup until 9pm or whatever.

It has its own new set of stresses - trying (and failing) to convince clients to build a relationship when you’re just an associate is a pain, networking is a pain, making sure not to piss anyone off is a pain. But my hours are probably slightly lower and certainly way more regular, there’s less busy work and less being ordered around. And the pay is twice as high.

I can see why someone might not like it, though. There’s a lot more thinking involved and a lot less clear guidelines on what to do. Being a junior is plug and play - show up and do the 9 things you’ve been told. Being a senior is like showing up to work with a blank pad on the table. It can be scary.


Your clients are very different than mine.

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anyriotgirl

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby anyriotgirl » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:56 pm

Mr. Peanutbutter wrote:I’ll prob wash out befor esenior associate status, and yeah I constantly look at them and marvel at their resilience. Most of them are generally good people and are pleasant to work with despite their completely unrealistic lifestyles


Then again by the time I’ve been doing this for five years and get good at it and am still hopelessly single and only have my own bad habits to tend to I guess I could see myself giving in to the only people in my life who seem to care take me under biglaw


I don't know how they do it. I can already tell that I'm going to become a monster if I last more than a couple of years
Last edited by anyriotgirl on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby MaxMcMann » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:As an actual senior associate in NY big law... it’s kind of the best job I’ve had yet (and I worked outside of law first)? So long as you’re busy enough, no one really cares if you bill 2200 or 2400 or 2800 because you’re not getting made or not-made based on an extra $500K of revenue. Better yet, I mostly work directly with clients so normally don’t have to work late because someone else didn’t get me a markup until 9pm or whatever.

It has its own new set of stresses - trying (and failing) to convince clients to build a relationship when you’re just an associate is a pain, networking is a pain, making sure not to piss anyone off is a pain. But my hours are probably slightly lower and certainly way more regular, there’s less busy work and less being ordered around. And the pay is twice as high.

I can see why someone might not like it, though. There’s a lot more thinking involved and a lot less clear guidelines on what to do. Being a junior is plug and play - show up and do the 9 things you’ve been told. Being a senior is like showing up to work with a blank pad on the table. It can be scary.


If this wouldn't out you, what practice area are you in? I get the feeling a non M&A transactional practice.

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Re: do you ever just look at the stuff the senior associates have to do and think

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:00 pm

Mostly private M&A, with some finance sprinkled in. I guess most folks would call what I do ‘corporate’.



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