Lost

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Anonymous User
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Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:19 pm

I struck out at OCI (40+) interviews, not a single call back. I have emailed over 200+ firms and all rejections and no responses. My interviewing is fine, I got to top 10 law school but my gpa is all B's n B-'s. I find each and everyday harder and harder. I drag myself to class and its a struggle not to drop out every single day. I feel like I am on auto-pilot. I suppose I am writing this in hope that I am not alone. Putting the 150k+ and no job aside, its still hard to see your peers thrive and the looks of pity in there eyes when they hear you failed. I went from people being impressed or proud that i go to "X" law school to showing pity and worry because they know I have failed. And thats seperate from several other non-law school related issues i have. I am alone and everyday is a battle to press on, how far down the rabbit hole should i go before i give up. Idk whats the point of this besides to vent/ see if I truly am alone.

KM2016
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Re: Lost

Postby KM2016 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:32 pm

Keep pounding the pavement. There are still plenty of midlaw/gov't jobs that recruit into the spring.

And not to kick you while you're down, but you say you had 40+ interviews and no call backs, but your interviewing skill are fine. If that's the case, your interviewing skills are not fine. From your school range and with that volume of interviews, you should have netted at least a handful of callbacks.

Try reaching out to your CSO; they can help you find openings to apply to and a lot of them do mock interviews, which it sounds like could be helpful for you.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:38 pm

I have spoken to Career services almost weekly and I have had 8 or 9 mocks. little to no negative feed back. They said my interviewing was fine.

da.goat
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Re: Lost

Postby da.goat » Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:33 pm

I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:41 am

da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.

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lavarman84
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Re: Lost

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.


Dude, don't come on here, ask for advice, and then get upset when someone gives you advice in a respectful manner. You had 40+ interviews and got no callbacks. Something is off. It's not just grades.

The best advice anyone can give you is to rereview your application materials, practice your interviewing, and keep looking for opportunities. It's November. There are still plenty of opportunities for the summer (and beyond) even if biglaw looks highly unlikely.

da.goat
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Re: Lost

Postby da.goat » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.


Phew ok if this is how you interact with people irl that could also be affecting your interviews. Second stab at advice, you mention you have other personal issues going on; it could be possible you were mentally preoccupied with these personal problems during OCI and screeners felt like you weren't totally present. I have several friends who took advantage of our school's free counseling around OCI time because job pressure + ongoing personal issues caused increased stress/depression. Having someone help get your head in a better place goes a long way.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:57 am

lavarman84 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.


Dude, don't come on here, ask for advice, and then get upset when someone gives you advice in a respectful manner. You had 40+ interviews and got no callbacks. Something is off. It's not just grades.

The best advice anyone can give you is to rereview your application materials, practice your interviewing, and keep looking for opportunities. It's November. There are still plenty of opportunities for the summer (and beyond) even if biglaw looks highly unlikely.


My point was that it wasn't respectful. Additionally, I spoke to a few alums who went through similar situations and went into Public interest or consulting because of their grades.

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magnum_law
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Re: Lost

Postby magnum_law » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:18 am

He/she was being respectful, and in fact was trying to be helpful. Your situation is starting to make a lot of sense.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:22 am

OP, is your GPA above or below the 3.0 range? Unfortunately big firms tend to be unforgiving of averages below a 3.0. But anything above that, from a t10, can generally be overcome with a few strategic tactics!

albanach
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Re: Lost

Postby albanach » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP, is your GPA above or below the 3.0 range? Unfortunately big firms tend to be unforgiving of averages below a 3.0. But anything above that, from a t10, can generally be overcome with a few strategic tactics!


From my reading, if the grades are all B's and B-'s as stated, then the overall GPA had to be sub 3.0.

Do any T10 schools still grade to a B median?

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:OP, is your GPA above or below the 3.0 range? Unfortunately big firms tend to be unforgiving of averages below a 3.0. But anything above that, from a t10, can generally be overcome with a few strategic tactics!

Yea. The school doesn't tell you GPA but logically im 2.8ish.

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zhenders
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Re: Lost

Postby zhenders » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:37 am

1. Yes. There are lots of folks in your position; you're not alone.

2. Everyone who strikes out of OCI after 30+ screeners from a t-10 has at least one, and usually more than one, major issue that prevented them from callbacks/offers. Often it's a combination of grades and personality. I stress personality and not interviewing ability, because someone with a crummy personality can still "properly answer" interview questions, but that doesn't mean the interview will be a success.

3. Even here, you're coming across as a defensive and thin-skinned grump. That doesn't bode well for point 2 above. If you want advice, then swallow your pride and don't get offended when people suggest that maybe your having struck out has something to do with you. Because it does. If you still want employment, then you should be doing everything you can do identify what your X factors are. If you don't want advice, then say so; that's fine. But I definitely wouldn't want to work with you if your attitude in real life is anything like what you've shown here. If I saw even a hint of that as an interviewer I'd have dinged you without a second thought.

I understand that it really stinks. People didn't comment here to crap on you; they only responded to your reaching out for condolence and advice. Try to be chill. Good luck on the job search.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Lost

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:43 am

OP, from reading TLS for way too many years, you’re not alone - there are other people in your position, even if it doesn’t feel like they’re at your school, and there’s still a lot of time between now and next summer to get something decent lined up.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:51 pm

zhenders wrote:2. Everyone who strikes out of OCI after 30+ screeners from a t-10 has at least one, and usually more than one, major issue that prevented them from callbacks/offers. Often it's a combination of grades and personality. I stress personality and not interviewing ability, because someone with a crummy personality can still "properly answer" interview questions, but that doesn't mean the interview will be a success.
...
I understand that it really stinks. People didn't comment here to crap on you; they only responded to your reaching out for condolence and advice. Try to be chill. Good luck on the job search.


You are right that personality may be an issue but my interview critics were that I am too relax/chill. I should show more energy but it is difficult to change your personality. That being said its not a crummy personality just hard to connect with me I suppose. I do appreciate people giving advice and understanding. I just disagreed with the manner in which one person gave advice.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:55 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:OP, from reading TLS for way too many years, you’re not alone - there are other people in your position, even if it doesn’t feel like they’re at your school, and there’s still a lot of time between now and next summer to get something decent lined up.


Thanks, I am fortunate that it isn't all bad because the in-house position last summer offered that I can return but they wouldn't hire me after graduation. Additionally, career services said they give subsidized employment for people like me if I graduate without a job but its just a huge life altering mistake.

youmadbro
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Re: Lost

Postby youmadbro » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.


dude you're the one who is rude. They are trying to help you out. Maybe that's why you didn't get any callbacks!

cavalier1138
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Re: Lost

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You are right that personality may be an issue but my interview critics were that I am too relax/chill. I should show more energy but it is difficult to change your personality. That being said its not a crummy personality just hard to connect with me I suppose. I do appreciate people giving advice and understanding. I just disagreed with the manner in which one person gave advice.


It is difficult to change your personality, but it isn't all that difficult to pretend to be interested in someone for 15-30 minutes at a time. And yes, appearing to be disengaged, apathetic, or otherwise checked out is a "crummy personality" for interview purposes.

Since you're working in a client-centric industry, this seems like a pretty crucial skill to master. It's also pretty vital, because if this is the underlying problem, you're looking at bigger issues than just striking out at OCI.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:15 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You are right that personality may be an issue but my interview critics were that I am too relax/chill. I should show more energy but it is difficult to change your personality. That being said its not a crummy personality just hard to connect with me I suppose. I do appreciate people giving advice and understanding. I just disagreed with the manner in which one person gave advice.


It is difficult to change your personality, but it isn't all that difficult to pretend to be interested in someone for 15-30 minutes at a time. And yes, appearing to be disengaged, apathetic, or otherwise checked out is a "crummy personality" for interview purposes.

Since you're working in a client-centric industry, this seems like a pretty crucial skill to master. It's also pretty vital, because if this is the underlying problem, you're looking at bigger issues than just striking out at OCI.


I didn't mean I'm uninterested, just not higher energy. I have always done well in all interviews before law firm interviews. To overcome my poor grades I need to be more charismatic which is hard for my personality. Many interviews went exceptionally well but didn't translate into callbacks. Every non-law firm interview I have done in my life I have received offers, it just requires a little extra connection I suppose. That is true I have bigger issues in life that just striking out but I am where I am and need to move forward. Thanks for the advice, its true.

da.goat
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Re: Lost

Postby da.goat » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:01 pm

youmadbro wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
da.goat wrote:I don't mean for this to come off rudely, but have you double checked your application materials for typos? Your first post has several grammar errors/misspellings (e.g. "seperate", "there/their")
and yes it's just TLS so that obviously isn't necessarily reflective of your real life grammar, but it's worth having others take a second look at your materials if you haven't already


Well you are coming off that way. I wrote that on my phone and did not reread. If you believe I went to through OCI, 8 mock interviews, Summer employment, and meeting with career services every week or two without a "second look" that is ridiculous. If you truly wanted to give honest advice why not say, "hey idk if you tried but it might help to have others take a second look" not point out my mistakes and (e.g.) them. quite unnecessary.


dude you're the one who is rude. They are trying to help you out. Maybe that's why you didn't get any callbacks!


Thanks man, this anon's angry reaction was a little surprising. Especially since there was much harsher (but all very helpful) advice given here lol

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, is your GPA above or below the 3.0 range? Unfortunately big firms tend to be unforgiving of averages below a 3.0. But anything above that, from a t10, can generally be overcome with a few strategic tactics!

Yea. The school doesn't tell you GPA but logically im 2.8ish.


No need to delve into OP's psyche, etc. This right here is the issue. I work at a V50 and have done OCI for the firm a few times. We have a hard 3.0 GPA floor. I've interviewed many candidates who were good interviewers, personable, etc. but their resume was immediately put into the "Reject" pile because their GPA was sub-3.0. We have no wiggle room on that.

OP - I don't know what 40 firms you targeted through OCI, but if they were all V100s, you probably struck out because of GPA floors. I would suggest you start contacting firms outside the V100 and if your interviewing is as good as you say I don't think you'll have a problem getting an offer.

Anonymous User
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Re: Lost

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
No need to delve into OP's psyche, etc. This right here is the issue. I work at a V50 and have done OCI for the firm a few times. We have a hard 3.0 GPA floor. I've interviewed many candidates who were good interviewers, personable, etc. but their resume was immediately put into the "Reject" pile because their GPA was sub-3.0. We have no wiggle room on that.

OP - I don't know what 40 firms you targeted through OCI, but if they were all V100s, you probably struck out because of GPA floors. I would suggest you start contacting firms outside the V100 and if your interviewing is as good as you say I don't think you'll have a problem getting an offer.


Yes, like you said many interviews went well but I was immediately rejected. The same is true with mass emailing. My OCI list was generally in V100 and career services reviewed my list three times. I wish career services would be more realistic with you sometimes but that is neither here nor there. I have contacted mid-sized firms in my local secondary market but no progress so far. Thanks for the advice.

PorscheFanatic
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Re: Lost

Postby PorscheFanatic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:10 pm

Poster above, I think I completely agree with you. Grades are likely the factor (maybe overcomeable at T3, but not always at T10).

OP, we may have been at same school, since I was also a T10 that didn't give a GPA (Penn, but maybe there are others too). I was a sub 3.0 GPA. Everyone told me that I was an excellent interviewer, and I think I'm a pretty good people-person and have a good personality for cocktail and networking events, and believe I sold myself well in OCI interviews.

That said, with my sub 3.0 GPA, I did about 65 screeners. Got 5 total CBs and 2 offers targeting v100 firms. GPA was very, very difficult to overcome, and I think I got very lucky because of really good interviews, and think I could have easily struck out as well (even after summering at my firm that I chose to accept, the hiring partner said that I barely got through because of my ability to talk to people in interviews, and they essentially had to make an exception for my grades, which they don't typically do).

So, keep working hard, keep networking, and if you're a strong interviewer you just have to convince someone to take a chance on you.

Damage Over Time
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Re: Lost

Postby Damage Over Time » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:No need to delve into OP's psyche, etc. This right here is the issue. I work at a V50 and have done OCI for the firm a few times. We have a hard 3.0 GPA floor. I've interviewed many candidates who were good interviewers, personable, etc. but their resume was immediately put into the "Reject" pile because their GPA was sub-3.0. We have no wiggle room on that.


Out of curiosity, why do firms with hard GPA floors bother interviewing people who are below their GPA cutoff? If you have no wiggle room, it strikes me as a big waste of resources to interview someone that you're forced to reject no matter what. Is this in case they wow you and then reapply after improving their GPA?

PorscheFanatic
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Re: Lost

Postby PorscheFanatic » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:05 pm

I know specifically at Penn, our OCI process doesn't allow firms to pre-screen. When they see us in screeners through OCI, it's their first time seeing our resumes/transcripts. It's a Penn thing, not sure if other top schools do it as well.

Generally though, the career services people will review bid lists and tell you which firms you're not a strong candidate for. But that doesn't always stop people from interviewing anyway. There's a story every year of someone walking into a Wachtell screener without the requisite grades and basically being asked how they'd like to spend the next 20 minutes (because they won't be considering them for the position).




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