Bonus Speculation

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Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:26 am

STB is out and it's market

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:35 am

Anonymous User wrote:STB is out and it's market

DPW management committee sprinting to “Send” button

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby SmokeytheBear » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:STB is out and it's market

DPW management committee sprinting to “Send” button


I hate feeling disappointed that I'm barely making a third million dollars this year. Like the extra $10,000 that I thought I was going to get was going to do something for me.

Who the hell says "I've made a third million dollars"?

My black grandfather who had to work on a railroad just to afford college would backhand me right now if he were alive.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:59 pm

anonnymouse wrote:Today is the day Skadden becomes the new market compensation leader. The New New Deal promises a cheese plate on every table and an 8-ball in every desk drawer!

Nope.

h2go
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby h2go » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:49 pm

Well, this has been disappointing.

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rpupkin
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby rpupkin » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:57 pm

h2go wrote:Well, this has been disappointing.

Disappointing and perplexing. As was pointed out on the first page of this thread, "stagnant bonuses would be very bad for associate morale." What happened? Do you think this year's flat bonus structure portends a shift to prioritizing profits over associate morale?

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Mr. Peanutbutter
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:33 pm

rpupkin wrote:
h2go wrote:Well, this has been disappointing.

Disappointing and perplexing. As was pointed out on the first page of this thread, "stagnant bonuses would be very bad for associate morale." What happened? Do you think this year's flat bonus structure portends a shift to prioritizing profits over associate morale?

:lol:

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Capitol_Idea » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:34 pm

Well I for one will be implementing a work slowdown to show them a thing or two. They won't get a minute over 2400 hours out of me this year

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JenDarby
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby JenDarby » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:40 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:Well I for one will be implementing a work slowdown to show them a thing or two. They won't get a minute over 2400 hours out of me this year

You're going to want to stay on pace ahead of your peers so when they considering raising bonuses in 2020, you're the FIRST associate that comes to mind!

anonnymouse
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby anonnymouse » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:47 pm

rpupkin wrote:
h2go wrote:Well, this has been disappointing.

Disappointing and perplexing. As was pointed out on the first page of this thread, "stagnant bonuses would be very bad for associate morale." What happened? Do you think this year's flat bonus structure portends a shift to prioritizing profits over associate morale?

Could this be the watershed moment that prompts associates to unionize? All signs point to YES.

jd20132013
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby jd20132013 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:33 pm

rpupkin wrote:
h2go wrote:Well, this has been disappointing.

Disappointing and perplexing. As was pointed out on the first page of this thread, "stagnant bonuses would be very bad for associate morale." What happened? Do you think this year's flat bonus structure portends a shift to prioritizing profits over associate morale?

179

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zhenders
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby zhenders » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:33 pm

I suppose I'm not very surprised, given raises last summer. I mean, granting that it's definitely shitty, I guess I would have expected most associates to assume that the managing partner mindset last and this year (and possibly even next year) would be, "we just gave raises after nearly a decade--so we're probably good to keep bonuses flat for at least a few years." What am I missing? Was this legitimately a surprise this year (again, granting that surprise or not it sucks)?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:49 pm

zhenders wrote:I suppose I'm not very surprised, given raises last summer. I mean, granting that it's definitely shitty, I guess I would have expected most associates to assume that the managing partner mindset last and this year (and possibly even next year) would be, "we just gave raises after nearly a decade--so we're probably good to keep bonuses flat for at least a few years." What am I missing? Was this legitimately a surprise this year (again, granting that surprise or not it sucks)?

Nah I think if you read the first few pages of the thread you get a general sense of the sentiment.

2014 wrote:My assessment of the odds is:

10% - Meaningful (generally >$10k) increase
15% - Nominal (generally $5-10k) increase
74.5% - Stagnant
0.5% - Decrease

Partners have said my firm is having a "very good year" but I don't work at Cravath and I suspect they set market again this year.


Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
jd20132013 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:bonuses are not moving. let's not fucking kid ourselves


Is gamgling prohibited on TLS? If not, I'd invite an over/under prop bet on bonuses.


I'm declaring lines open at -300 for stagnation, +200 for a weighted net increase, and +5000 for a weighted net decrease.

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LaLiLuLeLo
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:55 pm

The problem is most firms are followers and bonuses aren't really based on firm performance. Even if a firm has an amazing year, if they aren't one of a handful of leaders (firms that pay non-market bonuses notwithstanding) the bonuses won't reflect their profitability. It's kind of silly if you think about it - a bonus is meant to reflect performance, after all.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:19 am

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:The problem is most firms are followers and bonuses aren't really based on firm performance. Even if a firm has an amazing year, if they aren't one of a handful of leaders (firms that pay non-market bonuses notwithstanding) the bonuses won't reflect their profitability. It's kind of silly if you think about it - a bonus is meant to reflect performance, after all.


Yes exactly. Big law management and big law business model defy any kind of rational business operations or logic. Reality is going to catch up soon. Get while the gettin's good.

liam31
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby liam31 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:11 am

Has Kirkland announced yet?

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:22 am

liam31 wrote:Has Kirkland announced yet?


They don't "announce." They give individual bonuses to people based on hours and merit (in theory) and tell associates individually sometime in December. ATL has to cobble together individual anecdotes to give a sense of where they come in.

One can only hope that another market SHATTER will shame the more preftigous institutions after some blue collar Midwest firm bests their "market setting" bonuses again.

MillllerTime
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby MillllerTime » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:27 am

zhenders wrote:I suppose I'm not very surprised, given raises last summer. I mean, granting that it's definitely shitty, I guess I would have expected most associates to assume that the managing partner mindset last and this year (and possibly even next year) would be, "we just gave raises after nearly a decade--so we're probably good to keep bonuses flat for at least a few years." What am I missing? Was this legitimately a surprise this year (again, granting that surprise or not it sucks)?


The issue for me is that my firm and a handful of other top firms held presentations or sent out marketing-type materials showing how this year was the firm's best year ever (by 10%+). Pretty shitty to rub that in associates' faces and then give the same bonus for the third year in a row. Almost like they're not reading our posts on associate morale.

On the Kirkland question: no, typically they hold a presentation in mid-December and we get an individual email shortly thereafter. But they're usually just based on a multiple of the Ballard Spahr scale, so the market announcement tells us 90% of what we need to know.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:24 am

when I stopped thinking of a bonus as a bonus and as part of your compensation they hold back to make sure you come sufficiently close to destroying your social life and health then the way they're distributed make sense

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2014
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby 2014 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:27 am

MillllerTime wrote:
zhenders wrote:I suppose I'm not very surprised, given raises last summer. I mean, granting that it's definitely shitty, I guess I would have expected most associates to assume that the managing partner mindset last and this year (and possibly even next year) would be, "we just gave raises after nearly a decade--so we're probably good to keep bonuses flat for at least a few years." What am I missing? Was this legitimately a surprise this year (again, granting that surprise or not it sucks)?


The issue for me is that my firm and a handful of other top firms held presentations or sent out marketing-type materials showing how this year was the firm's best year ever (by 10%+). Pretty shitty to rub that in associates' faces and then give the same bonus for the third year in a row. Almost like they're not reading our posts on associate morale.

On the Kirkland question: no, typically they hold a presentation in mid-December and we get an individual email shortly thereafter. But they're usually just based on a multiple of the Ballard Spahr scale, so the market announcement tells us 90% of what we need to know.

For better or worse it's abundantly clear that law firm bonuses have nothing to do individual firm or even really market performance. They exist purely for retention at this point.

Anonymous User
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:05 pm

Why is this not bigger news? Cadwalader coming in at 120% above market bonus essentially. 2200 hours is a fairly reasonable bar. It seems like with enough hype this could still have some potential to push DPW or SullCrom up to that level as the market bonus without the billable requirement tho. 18 out of 180 is such a nice round 10%. It just makes sense. So thanks Cadwalader for at least putting it on the table. I know it's not much, but we should push for this!

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/11/finally ... ath-scale/

Abovethelaw: if you are reading this, I say put the Cadwalader story as the cover story for bonuses, replacing the Cravath one. This should be treated as a legitimate beating with no quotes. Although technically for high performers, 2200 hours is pretty common, so I think it's fair to give it the limelight. That's the pressure we need now and give Cadwalader more credit where credit is due. Do it for us associates!
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why is this not bigger news? Cadwalader coming in at 120% above market bonus essentially. 2200 hours is a fairly reasonable bar. It seems like with enough hype this could still have some potential to push DPW or SullCrom up to that level as the market bonus without the billabe requirement tho. 18 of 180 is such a nice round 10%. It just makes sense. So thanks cadwalader for at least putting it on the table. I know it's not much, but we should push for this!

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/11/finally ... ath-scale/


The problem is that firms like S&C, DPW, Milbank, etc don't have hours requirements, so they're not going to pay out extra for extra hours.

But I may be wrong. Other firms might not have hours requirements and pay out extra.

Who knows at this point. There is no logic to how this works, as noted several times above.

charliekelly33
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby charliekelly33 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why is this not bigger news? Cadwalader coming in at 120% above market bonus essentially. 2200 hours is a fairly reasonable bar. It seems like with enough hype this could still have some potential to push DPW or SullCrom up to that level as the market bonus without the billable requirement tho. 18 out of 180 is such a nice round 10%. It just makes sense. So thanks Cadwalader for at least putting it on the table. I know it's not much, but we should push for this!

https://abovethelaw.com/2017/11/finally ... ath-scale/

Abovethelaw: if you are reading this, I say put the Cadwalader story as the cover story for bonuses, replacing the Cravath one. This should be treated as a legitimate beating with no quotes. Although technically for high performers, 2200 hours is pretty common, so I think it's fair to give it the limelight. That's the pressure we need now and give Cadwalader more credit where credit is due. Do it for us associates!


I agree on this. Who at Cravath isn't billing 2,200?

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rpupkin
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby rpupkin » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why is this not bigger news? Cadwalader coming in at 120% above market bonus essentially. 2200 hours is a fairly reasonable bar. It seems like with enough hype this could still have some potential to push DPW or SullCrom up to that level as the market bonus without the billable requirement tho.

Are you tempted to leave your current market-paying firm for Cadwalader? Me neither. That's one reason this is not big news.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Bonus Speculation

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:25 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Why is this not bigger news? Cadwalader coming in at 120% above market bonus essentially. 2200 hours is a fairly reasonable bar. It seems like with enough hype this could still have some potential to push DPW or SullCrom up to that level as the market bonus without the billable requirement tho.

Are you tempted to leave your current market-paying firm for Cadwalader? Me neither. That's one reason this is not big news.


Seconded.




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