Discouraged 3L

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anonanonny

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Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:02 pm

All the jobs I can find require experience. Any advice on finding jobs that don't require experience? I summered at a firm this past summer and rejected their offer. I'm feeling a bit uneasy with no back-up plan. I have a feeling I'll be unemployed as of graduation unless something happens to come up between now and then that doesn't require experience. Do more jobs become available come spring (I hope)? (Looking for JD Advantage jobs as well as attorney positions in areas I am actually interested in).

It just feels a little discouraging to have no idea what post-graduation holds. I'm excited to graduate but man this position is a scary one to be in. Some days I feel optimistic and other days I feel like I do today... Discouraged about the whole thing. *attends great law school with a full scholarship and ends up unemployed* is not what I envisioned as a 1L... but then again law school is nothing I envisioned.

Any other 3Ls in a similar boat feel free to jump in :D

I'm looking every single day for jobs, and right now it's hard to imagine being an adult with an actual job someday... Been in school way too long :shock:

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:12 pm

anonanonny wrote:Some days I feel optimistic and other days I feel like I do today...

Same here.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
anonanonny wrote:Some days I feel optimistic and other days I feel like I do today...

Same here.

Glad I'm not alone on this. I really feel like my whole life is ahead of me sometimes and like it doesn't even matter if I landed a job after graduating, but it's tough when so many classmates know what they're doing and I'm here like :?: I have no clue what I'm doing

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:24 pm

anonanonny wrote:I summered at a firm this past summer and rejected their offer.

Uhhhhh...

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Civilservant » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:32 pm

1styearlateral wrote:
anonanonny wrote:I summered at a firm this past summer and rejected their offer.

Uhhhhh...


:idea:

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:23 am

Civilservant wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:
anonanonny wrote:I summered at a firm this past summer and rejected their offer.

Uhhhhh...


:idea:

Before anyone gets too judgmental...

Pretty sure me saying it that way could be misleading... It isn't like I summered at a big law firm or even a mid-sized one. It was a small firm in a shitty area with shitty pay. I could handle those things if I enjoyed my summer at all, but I dreaded even going to it most of the time. It would not end well if I ended up going there so I decided to make my life harder short-term with the job search than being stuck somewhere I know that I won't like. And... I can take the bar exam for a state I actually want to be in rather than where my summer firm was.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby 1styearlateral » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:10 am

It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:26 am

1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby ernie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:41 am

Can you get school funding?

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 am

anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.


Not really sure what you expected?

Real talk: you put yourself in a really bad position. Not impossible, but really bad. Browse the vale of tears thread if you want advice for your situation but I wouldn't post there just yet. The basic take away will be this though: apply to everything and anything. Reconcile yourself to the idea that your first legal job may not be what you wanted when you went to law school. Think about applying for non-legal jobs. Start working every single contact that you have even if that connection seems thin. Talk to your professors about clerkships- remember that you're not above state ones at this point.

It sounds like you're k-jd and went to law school without a good idea of how the world works outside the academy. Nobody's going to care that you have decent grades from a decent school. The good news is that you can climb the ladder later, but you're going to have to fight to grab on to it.

anonanonny

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:00 am

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.


Not really sure what you expected?

Real talk: you put yourself in a really bad position. Not impossible, but really bad. Browse the vale of tears thread if you want advice for your situation but I wouldn't post there just yet. The basic take away will be this though: apply to everything and anything. Reconcile yourself to the idea that your first legal job may not be what you wanted when you went to law school. Think about applying for non-legal jobs. Start working every single contact that you have even if that connection seems thin. Talk to your professors about clerkships- remember that you're not above state ones at this point.

It sounds like you're k-jd and went to law school without a good idea of how the world works outside the academy. Nobody's going to care that you have decent grades from a decent school. The good news is that you can climb the ladder later, but you're going to have to fight to grab on to it.

After talking with my career services office, it doesn't sound like the decision I made was "really bad." They told me that the firm has a history of treating people poorly and a very high turnover rate (which makes me unsure of why they have them come to our campus...). They even said they think it was a good choice given what they know of the firm. I also fail to see how my position is any different from countless other 3Ls that didn't receive summer offers. I don't believe that all of us will simply be unemployed losers a year from now.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not the type to kick people when they're down, which is essentially what it's doing to tell someone "you fucked up" when they already made a decision. It's like the countless DUI posts on here asking about getting into law school or passing C+F where people respond with "you shouldn't have driven drunk." How helpful is that? Anyways, in law school, I've realized there are very few areas I would actually like to be involved in. If I could go back, I wouldn't attend law school. My OP said I'll be looking for JD Advantage jobs. In fact, I'd prefer it.

I was hoping to find someone with a similar background or story with some insight on how to move on. I know I can keep telling myself I fucked up but that doesn't help me now. TBH, 99% of the time I feel quite happy with my choice. I avoided what I know would have been a miserable position for me to be in. Anyways, thanks for your advice. I'll continue applying for everything.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:01 am

ernie wrote:Can you get school funding?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify?

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:03 am

anonanonny wrote:
ernie wrote:Can you get school funding?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify?


Some schools will sponsor recent graduates to work in public service positions for a year to rig their employment numbers help them get their careers going.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby kykiske » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:53 pm

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
ernie wrote:Can you get school funding?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify?


Some schools will sponsor recent graduates to work in public service positions for a year to rig their employment numbers help them get their careers going.


Some schools do "bridge fellows" too. I believe they'll send recent graduates to work as a fellow for a judge for a couple months, or some other public service position.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:17 pm

OP, do you have any idea about what you actually want to do as a career?

I'm a 3L about to be in a similar position (anonymous because I haven't pulled the trigger yet) but I have specific jobs/fellowships that I want, which I'm actively applying and trying to get funding for. Are you just looking for more law firm work?

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby 1styearlateral » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:24 pm

anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.

B. Unicorn pretty much summed up any response I would have given. I guess I'm a little confused as to why you waited so long to look for a job. What was wrong with mass-mailing during the summer? Also, lawyering skills are transferable. If you're doing real estate litigation, you'll have an ok time trying to jump to commercial litigation (or vise versa). Experience is experience. But you did what you did and now you'll have to hustle. Start mass mailing.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:37 pm

1styearlateral wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.

B. Unicorn pretty much summed up any response I would have given. I guess I'm a little confused as to why you waited so long to look for a job. What was wrong with mass-mailing during the summer? Also, lawyering skills are transferable. If you're doing real estate litigation, you'll have an ok time trying to jump to commercial litigation (or vise versa). Experience is experience. But you did what you did and now you'll have to hustle. Start mass mailing.

I'm unsure why you don't think I've been looking for a job. I mass mailed like you wouldn't believe during the summer, and I am looking for jobs every single day. Mass mailing has got me no where (yet).

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby anonanonny » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP, do you have any idea about what you actually want to do as a career?

I'm a 3L about to be in a similar position (anonymous because I haven't pulled the trigger yet) but I have specific jobs/fellowships that I want, which I'm actively applying and trying to get funding for. Are you just looking for more law firm work?

The only areas I have found interesting in school have been estate planning and property-related courses.

I'm really not too interested in working at a law firm. If my summer experience is at all indicative of what firm life is like I really want no part. I've also been looking for any jobs that relate to gift planning or compliance. I recognize that I sound lost, but TBH I am a little lost lol. I've found a lot of what I don't like and only a little that I think I do like. Good for you! I'm glad you have an idea of what you want to do. I really wish I had more of a clue!

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:01 am

anonanonny wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, do you have any idea about what you actually want to do as a career?

I'm a 3L about to be in a similar position (anonymous because I haven't pulled the trigger yet) but I have specific jobs/fellowships that I want, which I'm actively applying and trying to get funding for. Are you just looking for more law firm work?

The only areas I have found interesting in school have been estate planning and property-related courses.

I'm really not too interested in working at a law firm. If my summer experience is at all indicative of what firm life is like I really want no part. I've also been looking for any jobs that relate to gift planning or compliance. I recognize that I sound lost, but TBH I am a little lost lol. I've found a lot of what I don't like and only a little that I think I do like. Good for you! I'm glad you have an idea of what you want to do. I really wish I had more of a clue!

Reach out to financial advisers/planners in your area maybe you can team up with one of them. Those guys do tons of wills, trusts, estate planning, etc.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby sparty99 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:25 am

anonanonny wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, do you have any idea about what you actually want to do as a career?

I'm a 3L about to be in a similar position (anonymous because I haven't pulled the trigger yet) but I have specific jobs/fellowships that I want, which I'm actively applying and trying to get funding for. Are you just looking for more law firm work?

The only areas I have found interesting in school have been estate planning and property-related courses.

I'm really not too interested in working at a law firm. If my summer experience is at all indicative of what firm life is like I really want no part. I've also been looking for any jobs that relate to gift planning or compliance. I recognize that I sound lost, but TBH I am a little lost lol. I've found a lot of what I don't like and only a little that I think I do like. Good for you! I'm glad you have an idea of what you want to do. I really wish I had more of a clue!


You sound picky and if your focus is on estate planning or XYZ law be prepared to be unemployed. Beggars cannot be chooser. You will most likely graduate unemployed unless you open up your search and start applying for Law Clerk positions and hope those become full-time. A law student should not be myopic and focus their job search on a single area, state, or sector. The goal should be to find employment by graduation. I landed employment as a 3L at graduation by applying to anything and everything. I started doing corporate work which I did not like and after a year, I went to a new state and became a litigator. Even when I did corporate work, I was looking for litigation opportunities across the country. I flew to New York for some career fair and had interviews as a prosecutor. I also flew to DC and had some firm interviews at another career fair that was focused on an affinity group that I was not a part of. I say this because if you want a job, you must hustle and be creative. I was below median at a T50 but was not picky. I've seen so many people at decent firms who started at shit firms, but they gained a year to 2 years experience and left for the better pay, name, and opportunity.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Subban_Fan » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:56 pm

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.



It sounds like you're k-jd and went to law school without a good idea of how the world works outside the academy. Nobody's going to care that you have decent grades from a decent school. The good news is that you can climb the ladder later, but you're going to have to fight to grab on to it.


Best post of 2017.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Nebby » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:03 pm

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
ernie wrote:Can you get school funding?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify?


Some schools will sponsor recent graduates to work in public service positions for a year to rig their employment numbers help them get their careers going.

It's not "rigged" if it's transparently reported, as required by ABA.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:13 pm

I graduated in May and had an offer that fell through about a year ago. Prepare for the worst period of your life. Hope your career services office is good, mine has been worse than useless. I thought I'd be able to get a job after my offer fell through too. I was at a top 30 school with good grades and a patent background, it didn't and still doesn't mean shit. I spend every day wishing I was dead, so that's what you have to look forward to.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:19 pm

Nebby wrote:
BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
ernie wrote:Can you get school funding?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you clarify?


Some schools will sponsor recent graduates to work in public service positions for a year to rig their employment numbers help them get their careers going.

It's not "rigged" if it's transparently reported, as required by ABA.


uh-huh

But yeah I suppose that the big caveat to all my posts ITT is that not having a job lined up 3L isn't necessarily a big deal if it's part of your plan to, say, work in PI or the government as long as you know what you're doing. To be honest, that does not sound like a good description of OP.

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Re: Discouraged 3L

Postby Nagster5 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:22 pm

anonanonny wrote:
BlendedUnicorn wrote:
anonanonny wrote:
1styearlateral wrote:It's (almost) always easier to get a job when you're already employed. Not even considering the fact that any amount of money is better than $0, weeks of unemployment can easily slip into months.

I doubt that I will slip into months of unemployment given that I'm at a good school with decent grades, but thanks for that encouragement. I know that it's possible, but I can think of very few recent grads from my school in that position. I didn't want to take the bar for a state I don't want to be in. I would be immediately looking for another job--in a state I wouldn't have taken the bar in--which doesn't make much sense. Not to mention the challenges I would face having experience in an area that I don't want to pursue. Anyways, I'm done explaining myself now. Given that my decision to reject is done, I'm not sure what your purpose is in telling me this. The title literally includes "discouraged." Your aim seems to be to tell me that I made a poor decision, which is fair on your part to believe, but it's unproductive given my post.


Not really sure what you expected?

Real talk: you put yourself in a really bad position. Not impossible, but really bad. Browse the vale of tears thread if you want advice for your situation but I wouldn't post there just yet. The basic take away will be this though: apply to everything and anything. Reconcile yourself to the idea that your first legal job may not be what you wanted when you went to law school. Think about applying for non-legal jobs. Start working every single contact that you have even if that connection seems thin. Talk to your professors about clerkships- remember that you're not above state ones at this point.

It sounds like you're k-jd and went to law school without a good idea of how the world works outside the academy. Nobody's going to care that you have decent grades from a decent school. The good news is that you can climb the ladder later, but you're going to have to fight to grab on to it.

After talking with my career services office, it doesn't sound like the decision I made was "really bad." They told me that the firm has a history of treating people poorly and a very high turnover rate (which makes me unsure of why they have them come to our campus...). They even said they think it was a good choice given what they know of the firm. I also fail to see how my position is any different from countless other 3Ls that didn't receive summer offers. I don't believe that all of us will simply be unemployed losers a year from now.

I get what you're saying, but I'm not the type to kick people when they're down, which is essentially what it's doing to tell someone "you fucked up" when they already made a decision. It's like the countless DUI posts on here asking about getting into law school or passing C+F where people respond with "you shouldn't have driven drunk." How helpful is that? Anyways, in law school, I've realized there are very few areas I would actually like to be involved in. If I could go back, I wouldn't attend law school. My OP said I'll be looking for JD Advantage jobs. In fact, I'd prefer it.

I was hoping to find someone with a similar background or story with some insight on how to move on. I know I can keep telling myself I fucked up but that doesn't help me now. TBH, 99% of the time I feel quite happy with my choice. I avoided what I know would have been a miserable position for me to be in. Anyways, thanks for your advice. I'll continue applying for everything.


Your DUI analogy is off because people in those threads don't say they're going to keep driving drunk. You, however, seem to not realize the bad things you done and are liable to continue committing the same types of mistakes as a result. Not taking the offer is not bad because it would have been a good job, it was bad because it's easier to get a job when you already have an offer, and you poo-pooed a fall-back/stop-gap plan for no reason. I'll echo what others are saying, you're being too picky. Your situation gets much worse as you get closer to graduation, and you don't seem to grasp the gravity of that fact given your statements about wanting to do X work and not wanting to work in Y, and saying you'll be fine because good school/good grades. Panic is not the right word, but your posts lack the sense of urgency they should. You need to focus on getting A job, and then you can start looking for a job you like. If you hold out for something you'll be happy with off the bat, you're liable to end up being an unemployed law school grad, which will make it much harder to find a job than it is as an unemployed 3L (which is hard as it is). That's what people are saying. If you're okay with that, that's fine too. Just be aware that's the situation you're in.



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