What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

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What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:25 pm

Recently graduated and took the bar. Waiting for results. Currently, I'm a law clerk at a shitlaw firm. It's pretty bad. They pay me a salary of $28,000 per year. What can I expect from a shitlaw firm like this? They said I'll obviously get a raise after passing the bar. Since I have about one year worth of experience in litigation, how much should I ask for? BTW, before graduation and bar, I was getting paid around $23,000.

I try to be grateful because I know there are many people interning for free and then there are those who remain unemployed.

sparty99

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby sparty99 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:Recently graduated and took the bar. Waiting for results. Currently, I'm a law clerk at a shitlaw firm. It's pretty bad. They pay me a salary of $28,000 per year. What can I expect from a shitlaw firm like this? They said I'll obviously get a raise after passing the bar. Since I have about one year worth of experience in litigation, how much should I ask for? BTW, before graduation and bar, I was getting paid around $23,000.

I try to be grateful because I know there are many people interning for free and then there are those who remain unemployed.


I WOULD QUIT IMMEDIATELY UPON FINDING NEW EMPLOYMENT. $28K? WHY EVEN BE A LAWYER FOR THAT PRICE. THEY SOUND CHEAP, SO $60 AT A MINIMUM.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:23 am

I am not a lawyer yet. Still waiting for bar results. That's why I was wondering what I can expect them to offer when I get licensed based on the shitty salary as a law clerk.

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jchiles

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby jchiles » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:04 am

Do you know what your billing rate is now/will be as an attorney? Your salary increase may be a function of this increase, I know that some small firms barely charge anything for law clerk time while others charge nearly as much as attorneys

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:39 am

They won't even tell me the billing rate. I tried asking yesterday. That won't be a factor anyway because my boss is cheap as hell. But I'll definitely get a raise once barred. I just don't know how much.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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kellyfrost

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby kellyfrost » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:48 am

Based upon the minimal information provided, it is going to be extremely difficult for anyone to estimate or try and guess an expected or realistic number.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jchiles

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby jchiles » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:They won't even tell me the billing rate. I tried asking yesterday. That won't be a factor anyway because my boss is cheap as hell. But I'll definitely get a raise once barred.


There is almost certainly a way you could find this out but it sounds like you aren't getting a great raise then so may be worth looking elsewhere.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:59 am

Yep, started looking seriously last week. I've been getting a few responses from prospective employers so trying to keep my hopes up.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby spud3000 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:30 am

There are some people who generally ascribe a "rule of thirds." Associate salary should be 1/3 of annual hours billed x hourly rate. 1/3 is reserved for overhead and 1/3 for "profits." Obviously this doesn't help you until you know your default hourly rate...

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:05 am

Yeah pretty sure that won't apply at this shit law firm. They bill the clients on an hourly rate but that has NOTHING to do with my salary as a law clerk or future associate. My salary will be fixed.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby spud3000 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:02 pm

I should have been more clear. That metric is based on an annual billable hour expectation. i.e. you are expected to bill 1800 at $125/hour so your fixed salary would be $75,000. It is, at the very least, a reasonable place to start a negotiation.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Wipfelder » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:36 pm

spud3000 wrote:I should have been more clear. That metric is based on an annual billable hour expectation. i.e. you are expected to bill 1800 at $125/hour so your fixed salary would be $75,000. It is, at the very least, a reasonable place to start a negotiation.


This seems way out of whack. That formula would put a BigLaw starting salary around 300k or so, right?

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby ur_hero » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:37 pm

You're being paid $14/hour post-law school. I know sometimes you don't have options (some people even do unpaid internships), but GET OUT ASAP.

At least in my opinion, it's an insult to pay a law graduate that much unless (1) you're a non-profit with a really good cause or they are (2) treating you VERY VERY VERY good and going above and beyond to teach, mentor, and integrate you into the team. Even then, I'd question whether I was being undervalued and they really had any interest at all.

Just my thoughts.

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LaLiLuLeLo

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby LaLiLuLeLo » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:56 pm

OP, a first year teacher in West Virginia makes more than you (and gets benefits), if that puts it in perspective. Obviously you know to GTFO but I hope you realize how fucked you've been. If anything, maybe negotiate for a % for cases you handle or something. Idk. Leave.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby lolwat » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:27 pm

I generally agree. The OP is still awaiting bar results so his salary is going to be lower. It definitely should not be $28k/year low, though.

I have no idea where OP is located but I would say $50-60k is probably a more appropriate number once licensed.

(Also, without knowing OP's stats/school/other credentials, even just having a job while awaiting bar results might actually be a good thing.)

This seems way out of whack. That formula would put a BigLaw starting salary around 300k or so, right?


With how many hours of associates' time are written off, probably not.

Love D.va

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Love D.va » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:27 am

Op, do you know anyone or have heard of anyone who were paid $28k as a law clerk then got a decent offer from the same firm after passing the bar? I haven't either.

Take what you can for now but as many others have said, keep looking.

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:29 pm

2L here w/ no real exp here so take with a grain of salt: but it interested me that you mentioned your boss is cheap as hell & also won't tell you billing rates. My point here I guess is, can you expect much of a raise? I think at $28k you'd probaly want at least another $20k after passing the bar...do you feel like that's what's going to happen? If not you should probably be develping a plan b

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby foregetaboutdre » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:45 pm

spud3000 wrote:There are some people who generally ascribe a "rule of thirds." Associate salary should be 1/3 of annual hours billed x hourly rate. 1/3 is reserved for overhead and 1/3 for "profits." Obviously this doesn't help you until you know your default hourly rate...

yikes.... i am under paid

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Re: What kind of salary should I expect/demand?

Postby spud3000 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:43 am

foregetaboutdre wrote:
spud3000 wrote:There are some people who generally ascribe a "rule of thirds." Associate salary should be 1/3 of annual hours billed x hourly rate. 1/3 is reserved for overhead and 1/3 for "profits." Obviously this doesn't help you until you know your default hourly rate...

yikes.... i am under paid


Of course supply/demand affects this and Biglaw doesn't use it because of massive overhead.



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