Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:43 pm

The OP doesn't owe anyone any more info than they're comfortable giving, you ghouls. (I get that it's a really weird situation and people want to know what's behind it but don't badger them to give revealing information.)

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby 1styearlateral » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:49 pm

State clerkship or AIII? Regardless, if you do a good job the judge might hook you up and grades might be irrelevant. So no, your career isn't shot.

Although I must agree with the other posters in that an F in law school is generally reserved for the people who don't show up to the exam, write nonsensical answers, or fail to write anything down on the exam at all. Something else is up if you showed up for the exam, wrote SOMETHING down (even if you missed > 50% of the issues), and still received an F. I know people who made up issues that weren't there but still received points if they explained why they thought it was an issue.

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grand inquisitor

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby grand inquisitor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:53 pm

agree that there are missing details that make giving advice more difficult. my guess is there were some aberrations with your exam that were suspicious and you agreed to take an f and retake the course. given that, i think your career is certainly salvageable, but realize that the large questions raised by your answers in this thread are likely going to occur to employers who ask for an explanation for your performance in law school.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:56 pm

1styearlateral wrote:State clerkship or AIII? Regardless, if you do a good job the judge might hook you up and grades might be irrelevant. So no, your career isn't shot.

Although I must agree with the other posters in that an F in law school is generally reserved for the people who don't show up to the exam, write nonsensical answers, or fail to write anything down on the exam at all. Something else is up if you showed up for the exam, wrote SOMETHING down (even if you missed > 50% of the issues), and still received an F. I know people who made up issues that weren't there but still received points if they explained why they thought it was an issue.


State clerkship.

I showed up for the exam and wrote answers responsive to the questions.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:58 pm

grand inquisitor wrote:agree that there are missing details that make giving advice more difficult. my guess is there were some aberrations with your exam that were suspicious and you agreed to take an f and retake the course. given that, i think your career is certainly salvageable, but realize that the large questions raised by your answers in this thread are likely going to occur to employers who ask for an explanation for your performance in law school.


I did not commit any misconduct in the course of the exam, as I stated earlier.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby albanach » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:02 pm

So if it's an MBE subject, there's a good chance it's Criminal Procedure or Evidence, since Torts, Contracts, Property and Con Law would typically be knocked out in first year.

If it's evidence, fashion yourself as transactional. If it's Crim, focus only on civil law. Then tell employers what you told us - that it was unexpected and the school went into radio silence.

Also, do everything you can to excel in this clerkship. A glowing judicial reference can blow away a solitary F. In hiring, I would certainly ask what happened. But if you said you honestly didn't know and accompany that with a great reference from a judge, I think you could get beyond it.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby pancakes3 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:04 pm

all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby kellyfrost » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:16 pm

pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:20 pm

kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:38 pm

grand inquisitor wrote:agree that there are missing details that make giving advice more difficult. my guess is there were some aberrations with your exam that were suspicious and you agreed to take an f and retake the course. given that, i think your career is certainly salvageable, but realize that the large questions raised by your answers in this thread are likely going to occur to employers who ask for an explanation for your performance in law school.

Yeah, to be fair, I do realize that employers are likely to ask the same questions people are asking here.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby IExistedOnceBefore » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:46 pm

mexicayotl wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.



Employers are going to want to know why you didn’t press the issue and get specifics. You can’t even really explain why it was justified. Did you ask to go over your exam and get shown why? Employers are going to wonder why you just took the silence and justification.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:47 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
grand inquisitor wrote:agree that there are missing details that make giving advice more difficult. my guess is there were some aberrations with your exam that were suspicious and you agreed to take an f and retake the course. given that, i think your career is certainly salvageable, but realize that the large questions raised by your answers in this thread are likely going to occur to employers who ask for an explanation for your performance in law school.

Yeah, to be fair, I do realize that employers are likely to ask the same questions people are asking here.



How would you suggest answering the question? Just say that the F was an aberration and not consistent with my performance in other classes/on the job?

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:48 pm

IExistedOnceBefore wrote:
mexicayotl wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.



Employers are going to want to know why you didn’t press the issue and get specifics. You can’t even really explain why it was justified. Did you ask to go over your exam and get shown why? Employers are going to wonder why you just took the silence and justification.


I emailed and the prof and she didn't respond. The Dean confirmed that there was not clerical error and that the grade was intentional, though.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:48 pm

mexicayotl wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.


And you weren't accused of misconduct, even if those accusations weren't actually justified, right?

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby IExistedOnceBefore » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:50 pm

mexicayotl wrote:
IExistedOnceBefore wrote:
mexicayotl wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.



Employers are going to want to know why you didn’t press the issue and get specifics. You can’t even really explain why it was justified. Did you ask to go over your exam and get shown why? Employers are going to wonder why you just took the silence and justification.


I emailed and the prof and she didn't respond. The Dean confirmed that there was not clerical error and that the grade was intentional, though.


Why didn’t you follow up? Forgetting the grade, the fact that you just let it go is bad form. Are you going to let client issues go when you send one email and no one answers you?

You need to find out exactly why so that you can explain it. The outlier performance is not a good answer for an F. It’s a good answer for a C. You need to call the dean and your professor and you need to get a specific answer.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:52 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
mexicayotl wrote:
kellyfrost wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:all people are saying is that the F itself is bad but not being able to explain it satisfactorily to an employer is worse. there's not much more to it.


There is a lot more to this story.

OP has stated there was no misconduct, and I have no reason not take his/her word for it. Anecdotally, I remember there being a potential plagarism issue in a Legal Writing class at my school. The school did an investigation, and it was ultimately agreed upon by the student that they would take a D- in the class. So an F really is strange.


I don't know how to prove it to you, but I did not cheat on the exam. The F was justified according to the Dean.


And you weren't accused of misconduct, even if those accusations weren't actually justified, right?


The school never accused me of academic misconduct.

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grand inquisitor

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby grand inquisitor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:57 pm

mexicayotl wrote:The school never accused me of academic misconduct.

you need to stop giving non-categorical denials. it just sounds more suspicious than it otherwise would if you came out and said "my professor suspected cheating but there was not enough evidence and i agreed to take an f".

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby mexicayotl » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:03 pm

grand inquisitor wrote:
mexicayotl wrote:The school never accused me of academic misconduct.

you need to stop giving non-categorical denials. it just sounds more suspicious than it otherwise would if you came out and said "my professor suspected cheating but there was not enough evidence and i agreed to take an f".


I didn't cheat and nobody suspected me of cheating. I didn't agree to take an F, I was given an F because of poor performance.

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby Subban_Fan » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:41 pm

kykiske's post is on point.
Last edited by Subban_Fan on Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

albanach

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby albanach » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:57 pm

One other thought. If it's a public school, you may be able to FOIA any correspondence between the dean and other administrators and the professor regarding the exam and also possibly a copy of any marked up exam paper. Obviously that depends a lot on FOIA laws in your state.

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:01 pm

I've been burned before but I'm getting a manali vibe here

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby Thesaurus » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:02 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:I've been burned before but I'm getting a manali vibe here

same tbh

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:20 pm

Oh fffffffuck I should have caught that sooner.

Y'all are absolutely correct. Good eye(s).

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:15 pm

Unlocked to give fair opportunity to gloat.

TheSpanishMain wrote:

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TheSpanishMain

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Re: Failed a course my last semester of law school, did not graduate with my class...

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:09 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Unlocked to give fair opportunity to gloat.

TheSpanishMain wrote:


Thank you, thank you. As I face my own ineptitude as a new father, I can take some small comfort in having a good ear for a Manali yarn.



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