Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

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Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:09 pm

Hi TLS,

2L at T14 who transferred after being top 1% at TTT. Landed offer for midlaw SA in a secondary market that pays starting associates about 100k, but struck out of biglaw. Offer expires in about 2 weeks. Been mass mailing until that offer expires, but no bites so far. Thing is, I will have about 250k in debt because I gave up my scholarship to transfer. I knew it would be an uphill battle coming from a TTT, but I didn't expect to completely strike out of biglaw. Servicing 250k with 100k salary will be so damn rough...

Do I take this offer and be grateful I have a job? Or is there a world where its rational to reject and keep on the grind for a gig that pays a little better (assuming I get a full time offer after the SA)? Are my stats too low to justify this risk? Thanks for any advice.

*Edited for clarity
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JusticeJackson

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby JusticeJackson » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:12 pm

.
Last edited by JusticeJackson on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:38 pm

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Take the midlaw job because it's all you have. If something pans out down the road back out on the midlaw. If the tables were turned and they had a far better deal available don't think for a second they wouldn't screw you without thinking twice.

-midlaw partner
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:39 pm

Double poast

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RCSOB657

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby RCSOB657 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi TLS,

2L at T14 who transferred after being top 1% at TTT. Landed offer for midlaw SA in a secondary market that pays starting associates about 100k, but struck out of biglaw. Offer expires in about 2 weeks. Been mass mailing until that offer expires, but no bites so far. Thing is, I will have about 250k in debt because I gave up my scholarship to transfer. I knew it would be an uphill battle coming from a TTT, but I didn't expect to completely strike out of biglaw. Servicing 250k with 100k salary will be so damn rough...


*Edited for clarity


You're smarter than this.....to actually fucking think it will be "hard."

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:43 pm

Servicing 250k on 100k isn't bad with PAYE and is easier than servicing it on 0. Take the offer. This is a bizarre question.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:55 pm

Take it before it expires; keep mass mailing now.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Servicing 250k on 100k isn't bad with PAYE and is easier than servicing it on 0. Take the offer. This is a bizarre question.


Yeah, in what world is $100k to service your debt worse than no job?

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby lolwat » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:04 pm

Take it. Reneg or lateral if you get something "better" later.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:44 pm

I'm a few years out, but when I went through OCI at my T14, a lot of transfers seemed to strike out too. In fact, I can only think of two who got regional biglaw (one was not market paying). The other probably got biglaw because she had a 1L SA also in regional biglaw (albeit at another firm).

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:51 pm

Take the offer, use PAYE. Send tons of apps in the meantime. If something sticks then you can pull out of the other firm but nothing should stop you from accepting it before he deadline.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby North » Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:32 pm

There are people at both your old TTT and your new T14 who would kill you with their bare hands to have that offer. You should turn it down and let one of them have it.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:20 pm

North wrote:There are people at both your old TTT and your new T14 who would kill you with their bare hands to have that offer. You should turn it down and let one of them have it.


OP here. Thanks guys. I think I knew deep inside I was being dumb- just needed to hear it from a few people to get over my "less than optimal" outcome.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a few years out, but when I went through OCI at my T14, a lot of transfers seemed to strike out too. In fact, I can only think of two who got regional biglaw (one was not market paying). The other probably got biglaw because she had a 1L SA also in regional biglaw (albeit at another firm).


Yeah, I don't think that has changed. I've heard from a few of my transfer buddies and most struck out of biglaw as well. Many of them came from T30 schools with pretty good grades too.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:48 pm

RCSOB657 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hi TLS,

2L at T14 who transferred after being top 1% at TTT. Landed offer for midlaw SA in a secondary market that pays starting associates about 100k, but struck out of biglaw. Offer expires in about 2 weeks. Been mass mailing until that offer expires, but no bites so far. Thing is, I will have about 250k in debt because I gave up my scholarship to transfer. I knew it would be an uphill battle coming from a TTT, but I didn't expect to completely strike out of biglaw. Servicing 250k with 100k salary will be so damn rough...


*Edited for clarity


You're smarter than this.....to actually fucking think it will be "hard."


This could actually be pretty mentally/emotionally exhausting. He'll pay about 47k in taxes + interest alone. OP will also need to get housing, food, utilities, etc. That all could easily be another 15k in a secondary market. After that's all said and done, OP would have 38k, so it's going to take a a long time to get rid of the 250k principle. OP will essentially be working in the private sector making a PI wage without the PSLF forgiveness benefits.

EDIT: accidental anon

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:22 pm

I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby letoile » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


How did you go about networking?

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


OP here. In light of my greatly increased debt, its tempting to agree and say I would've been better off staying. I acknowledge that putting my transfer school on my resume did not seem to help at OCI. I also lost my entire 1L network; I doubt any of my professors and classmates would vouch for me after taking their money and ditching the school a year later. At the same time, I don't yet have any connections at my new school to help.

Still hoping my new school's preftige pays off down the road lol.

letoile wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


How did you go about networking?


Also wondering about this. Even 3Ls who had 2L SAs at v10s are struggling to get biglaw offers right now, but you won the game despite the odds. Congrats!

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Anon from above. I worked for private firms in a niche practice area since undergrad, and I never stopped working during the school year (even during 1L).

Along the way I made connections with lawyers, clients and cases that eventually resulted in landing biglaw at the end of my 3L. My CB interview was secured through one such connection.

I know my path isn't common, but sometimes things do work out for the better, especially if you've been substantively advancing your skills in a specific practice area for years.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


I've had similar experience so far. Ivy undergrad with a few years' work experience, turned down t14 (MVP) with half scholarship for t2 with full scholarship (mostly because of spousal urging). Turned out to be a great decision-- I am top of my class and landed SA at v5. I think it is a gamble, because no telling how one will fare at any law school prior to attending; even really smart people with really strong LSATs aren't guaranteed to wind up in top 10% at t2 or t3, as so much depends on work ethic and aptitude for particular type of thinking/writing/test-taking. From what I've experienced and heard from others, my theory is that: being at/very near top of class at t2/t3 > than middle-of-the-road at t14 >>> middle-of-the-road at t2/t3.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby UVA2B » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


I've had similar experience so far. Ivy undergrad with a few years' work experience, turned down t14 (MVP) with half scholarship for t2 with full scholarship (mostly because of spousal urging). Turned out to be a great decision-- I am top of my class and landed SA at v5. I think it is a gamble, because no telling how one will fare at any law school prior to attending; even really smart people with really strong LSATs aren't guaranteed to wind up in top 10% at t2 or t3, as so much depends on work ethic and aptitude for particular type of thinking/writing/test-taking. From what I've experienced and heard from others, my theory is that: being at/very near top of class at t2/t3 > than middle-of-the-road at t14 >>> middle-of-the-road at t2/t3.


This, my friends, is what we call confirmation bias. I'm glad it worked out for you, but essentially you just took a different gamble than people like you who chose the higher ranked school did.

There is an incredible amount of nuance in the conversation you're trying to create out of this ridiculous choice of rejecting an offer because something better might come along (for OP: reneging is very much a thing, and if you have to do it, so be it). There isn't a "right" choice between the dichotomous situation here. YMMV became a thing for a reason: everyone's risk profile is different.

I don't want to assault your entire proposition, but I'll just say it's laced with some logical fallacies and assumptions that really aren't fair. Additionally, the OP wasn't looking for advice on whether they should've transferred. They shouldn't turn their nose at their current offer because they expected something better. They can (if they want) continue to seek other employment while keeping that job in their back pocket.

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Re: Should I Reject My Midlaw Offer?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was close to the top of my TTT class, and I made the opposite choice: I chose to keep my full scholly and not to transfer. I ended up landing a v10 in my 3L after a midlaw internship in 2L. Networking is key.

You may have fared better being the big fish in a small pond, OP. Although it's too late now to change things, perhaps my story will help future students contemplating transferring at sticker.


I was in the class of 2011, which was probably the worst year to graduate from law school in recent times (OCI was in 2009, when many firms first started realizing the extent of economic downtown and decided to no-offer and defer more than half their SAs, where the firms just didn't need c/o 2011 SAs). Almost all of the transfers at my t10 struck out at OCI. But several did get offers out of 3L OCI... I'm not sure if it's the same now, since the economy is a lot better than it was in 2010, but in fall of 2010, the few firms that had 3L openings were the tipity top biglaw firms, which obviously want the tipity top t14 students. Almost all the transfers at my t14 did exceptionally well, so those top biglaw firms became interested in them largely based on their 2L grades. I'm not sure how much of this still holds true today, but I strongly suspect that many of the 3L opening are at the best biglaw firms (which tend to be effected to a lesser degree by economic downturns since big companies won't trust their most important work to smaller more cost-effective firms, but they will for less high end stuff).

My advice to OP would be to accept the offer (obviously), but to also kick ass his 2nd year at his new school, and try to trade up for biglaw during the beginning of his 3L year. Getting dinged by biglaw as a transfer student in some ways is better than getting dinged as a regular t14 student with mediocre grades because the transfer student can more easily be at the top of his t14 class at the end of his 2nd year and get biglaw in his 3rd year (to be honest, I think people who are at the caliber to be in the top few students at crappier schools are generally capable of being at the top of a t14, since the skills you need to do well on a law school final is largely the same at both schools).



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