Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

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RaceJudicata

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:19 pm

BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.

lolwat

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby lolwat » Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have a family friend who owns a small firm I was thinking of just volunteering at to make sure I have no gap. it works out for him since its a free attorney and helps me because I can say I have been working.

Is this a bad idea?


I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea but maybe you could make sure it works out so your resume has you working as an "associate" or "attorney" there. The title makes some difference as you don't wanna come across as having to volunteer or work as a contract atty.

Also, has anyone not mentioned they have not been fired? for instance, if i get an interview for next week to just omit from saying that. (i imagine this is a touchy/ethical situation I should err on the side of disclosure)


I would not disclose unless asked point blank and even then im sure theres an okay way to spin this horrible incident.

And you know what, you probably have nothing to lose doing what the above posters suggested re the midsize firm.

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:13 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.

I completely agree with this.

It sounds like you were employed by a grade A asshole. It's possible you just ran into assholes on both ends of this situation, but seems more likely the guy said something out of line to make the other firm shy away, and at a minimum you should let them make that decision in full view of the facts (ie, guy's an asshole).

Though I gotta say, it's not the most auspicious beginning that they called your current employer without your knowledge, either. This whole situation should have been avoided. It's not like you're the first person to apply for jobs without telling their boss.

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:34 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.


Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm. Given that the tone of the rescinding last week was pretty harsh, I imagine I have better odds winning the powerball than having them reconsider their decision. But, it still was a great thought and I am very appreciative of the input by you and all the posters thus far.

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:34 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.


Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm. Given that the tone of the rescinding last week was pretty harsh, I imagine I have better odds winning the powerball than having them reconsider their decision. But, it still was a great thought and I am very appreciative of the input by you and all the posters thus far.

RaceJudicata

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby RaceJudicata » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.


Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm. Given that the tone of the rescinding last week was pretty harsh, I imagine I have better odds winning the powerball than having them reconsider their decision. But, it still was a great thought and I am very appreciative of the input by you and all the posters thus far.


Regardless of outcome, at least you won't ask yourself "what if" down the road.. Good on you for taking a shot. Rooting for you.

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rpupkin

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby rpupkin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm.

Is there a reason why you didn't follow BaiAilian2013's suggestion to call the firm to explain? There are circumstances in which an email is better than a phone call, but I'm not sure this is one of them.

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:11 pm

Also, to the poster above talking about no cause for firing, at will means you don't need cause. So, an employer can fire an employee for any or no reason at all, as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g., discrimination, public policy, etc.) OP could have an interference with contract against former employer though if it can be proven he provided an untrue and damaging statement intending to make new firm not to contract (i.e., employ) OP.

Sorry for your situation. Does friend at least need you for legal work in your desired field?

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:47 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:Also, to the poster above talking about no cause for firing, at will means you don't need cause. So, an employer can fire an employee for any or no reason at all, as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g., discrimination, public policy, etc.) OP could have an interference with contract against former employer though if it can be proven he provided an untrue and damaging statement intending to make new firm not to contract (i.e., employ) OP.

Sorry for your situation. Does friend at least need you for legal work in your desired field?


Its marginally related. I still have to ask him but I dont see him turning down the free labor. I figure he will vouch and say I was an associate for the time being, rather than a clerk or something. Thanks for the empathy friend.

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:48 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm.

Is there a reason why you didn't follow BaiAilian2013's suggestion to call the firm to explain? There are circumstances in which an email is better than a phone call, but I'm not sure this is one of them.


Shoot.. now that I think about it, a call probably would have had more of a punch to it. I've communicated a lot with the HR lady through emails so i dont think an email is all too bad either though.

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:49 pm

RaceJudicata wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
BaiAilian2013 wrote:Does the mid-sized firm know you got fired? It might be worth a calm call to them to say hey, I know you can't tell me why you revoked the offer, but contemporaneously with talking to you, my existing employer actually fired me saying that he could no longer trust me because I had looked for a new job, so obviously that's a little crazypants and not standard HR practice, and it made me wonder if he might also have lied when he spoke to you guys, since evidently he's both angry and vindictive. So in case it's something he said that triggered the revocation, I just wanted to give you that context and let you know there's a high chance he painted a false picture in order to torpedo the offer - he had been perfectly happy with me previously as evidenced by me working there 3 years, so there's really nothing true he could have said that would have been so negative.

I don't know employment law at all and this is not a law-based strategy, but people in recruiting departments are human and you might get lucky and have them reconsider. Maybe one of them has been lied about by a boss before - it happens.


I think this is worth a shot.


Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm. Given that the tone of the rescinding last week was pretty harsh, I imagine I have better odds winning the powerball than having them reconsider their decision. But, it still was a great thought and I am very appreciative of the input by you and all the posters thus far.


Regardless of outcome, at least you won't ask yourself "what if" down the road.. Good on you for taking a shot. Rooting for you.


Thanks friend. The support here is awesome. I'm trying to stay positive; applied to 6 more jobs today.

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rpupkin

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby rpupkin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm.

Is there a reason why you didn't follow BaiAilian2013's suggestion to call the firm to explain? There are circumstances in which an email is better than a phone call, but I'm not sure this is one of them.


Shoot.. now that I think about it, a call probably would have had more of a punch to it. I've communicated a lot with the HR lady through emails so i dont think an email is all too bad either though.

You can still call to follow up on your email.

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xRON MEXiCOx

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby xRON MEXiCOx » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:05 pm

Wait is telling your current employer that you're looking for a new job something people do? I've never heard of that. I thought everyone just always did it without telling their current employer.

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rpupkin

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby rpupkin » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:09 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:Wait is telling your current employer that you're looking for a new job something people do? I've never heard of that. I thought everyone just always did it without telling their current employer.

Dude, did you read the thread? Or at least the OP?

Thesaurus

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Thesaurus » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:34 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:Also, to the poster above talking about no cause for firing, at will means you don't need cause. So, an employer can fire an employee for any or no reason at all, as long as the reason is not illegal (e.g., discrimination, public policy, etc.) OP could have an interference with contract against former employer though if it can be proven he provided an untrue and damaging statement intending to make new firm not to contract (i.e., employ) OP.

Sorry for your situation. Does friend at least need you for legal work in your desired field?

I know what at will means. My point was more that even though OP's boss fired OP for something they did, OP did absolutely nothing wrong and would have nothing to disclose if a future job application asked about a firing for cause.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:39 pm

cslee5090 wrote:I signed the offersheet, but as a reference check the new firm called my employer (despite me indicating not to do so).


This would have set off all sorts of alarm bells if I were hiring someone.

"Here's the last place I worked, but please don't talk to them."

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Thesaurus » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:42 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
cslee5090 wrote:I signed the offersheet, but as a reference check the new firm called my employer (despite me indicating not to do so).


This would have set off all sorts of alarm bells if I were hiring someone.

"Here's the last place I worked, but please don't talk to them."

More like "here's the place I currently work, but I haven't told them I'm looking for a new job yet so please don't talk to them"

dixiecupdrinking

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:00 am

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
cslee5090 wrote:I signed the offersheet, but as a reference check the new firm called my employer (despite me indicating not to do so).


This would have set off all sorts of alarm bells if I were hiring someone.

"Here's the last place I worked, but please don't talk to them."

What are you talking about? It's completely normal not to want someone to contact your current employer.

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Stringer Bell

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:02 am

Thesaurus wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
cslee5090 wrote:I signed the offersheet, but as a reference check the new firm called my employer (despite me indicating not to do so).


This would have set off all sorts of alarm bells if I were hiring someone.

"Here's the last place I worked, but please don't talk to them."

More like "here's the place I currently work, but I haven't told them I'm looking for a new job yet so please don't talk to them"


Yeah. Requiring a reference from your current place of employment is a ludicrous expectation. Plenty of law firms require it, but this isn't normal in most professions.

I feel for you OP. Definitely consult with an L&E attorney. At the very least you need to see if you can scare your former boss into not badmouthing you going forward.

foregetaboutdre

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:05 am

Did you put anything on your resume or use a writing sample that is marginally untrue or something that you couldn't share?

To be honest, I'm not sure about P-side L&E, but agree with giving an attny a call. I'm sure you can find someone who has a reasonable rate AND is willing to write a letter to your former employer to stop being an asshole. ALSO be sure to ask whether your former future employer can get in trouble if you have anything that documents that they could not contact your current employer. Finally, (please don't take this as legal advice, etc...) inquire with the L&E attorney about state law regard access to your personnel file (e.g. if you have had good reviews). Some states have laws that grant access to a personnel file.

Finally, I see the two bridges burnt between the two firms and don't see a downside sending a note to the former future employer indicating you were fired for looking for another job. It serves two purposes: (1) they should feel like shit; (2) they might be fucked if they called your current employer w/o permission.

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:09 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm.

Is there a reason why you didn't follow BaiAilian2013's suggestion to call the firm to explain? There are circumstances in which an email is better than a phone call, but I'm not sure this is one of them.


I think OP the probability of OP getting hired by the midsize firm now is 0%, so IMO I think a phone call might be worthless at this point. However, I do see your point as well and would consider calling them, but also having that e-mail.. The e-mail at least documents what OP believes happened (and the firm's response) and could be helpful to the P-side L&E lawyer if they want to send a scary letter to both etc...

cslee5090

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby cslee5090 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:14 am

So, an update today. My paralegal called me today and told me that my boss was hurt that I didnt talk to him first before I started interviewing at other firms (as if I have some sort of duty to do so). And that my termination was based on the fact that I misrepresented where I was going when I would take time off to go to an interview. He said he knew about all the interviews I had gone on. I dont see how that would even be possible.

Would it even be viable to talk to my former boss and just try to see if he won't bad mouth me anymore? Or would be hiring a LE attorney be the only way.
Last edited by cslee5090 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:16 am

foregetaboutdre wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for the idea. It actually is a great idea. I sent what you wrote pretty much verbatim (minus the crazypants) to HR at the midsize firm.

Is there a reason why you didn't follow BaiAilian2013's suggestion to call the firm to explain? There are circumstances in which an email is better than a phone call, but I'm not sure this is one of them.


I think OP the probability of OP getting hired by the midsize firm now is 0%, so IMO I think a phone call might be worthless at this point. However, I do see your point as well and would consider calling them, but also having that e-mail.. The e-mail at least documents what OP believes happened (and the firm's response) and could be helpful to the P-side L&E lawyer if they want to send a scary letter to both etc...


As a P-side L&E attorney, I like your thinking.

cslee5090

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby cslee5090 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:25 am

Less than 24 hours later there goes the email access

Magic Hat

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Re: Fired bc employer found out I was applying elsewhere. What to do.

Postby Magic Hat » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:47 am

It sounds like there is more to the story here.

You mentioned the mid sized firm's rescision was harsh. How so?



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