No-offer rates

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No-offer rates

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:22 pm

Apologies in advance if this has been discussed before. I was looking at the NALP data for some firms I have the possibility of working at next summer, and I noticed that both of the firms no-offered one person in each of the respective offices I'd be working at. The offices have relatively small summer class sizes (<15 people); the offer rates are over 90%, but it definitely concerns me a little.

Both firms are regional big-law in secondary markets. One of the firms only had one no-offer firmwide, whereas the other had four firmwide with one being at the office I'm interested in.

At this point, is it safe to assume that the one no offer is more due to the summer associate than to the firm? I.e. is it more likely they did something wrong, or is it still just as likely that the firm overestimated how many SAs they would get?

Thanks.

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de minimis

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Re: No-offer rates

Postby de minimis » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:34 pm

Very likely due to the SA. I was in a very small summer class and one of us got no offered. Nobody saw it coming, but once people explained why, it was obviously the right move for the firm. One no offer out of 15 wouldn't concern me. I'd even view it as a positive. The firm cares more about protecting itself from a bad apple than keeping an arbitrary 100% offer rate.

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Re: No-offer rates

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:46 pm

de minimis wrote:Very likely due to the SA. I was in a very small summer class and one of us got no offered. Nobody saw it coming, but once people explained why, it was obviously the right move for the firm. One no offer out of 15 wouldn't concern me. I'd even view it as a positive. The firm cares more about protecting itself from a bad apple than keeping an arbitrary 100% offer rate.


I have the opposite view to be honest. My firm no-offered someone and cold-offered 3 people. In my own opinion, 1 no offer = 1 no offer plus 1-2 cold offers.

If I were you, I would choose the firm with the national no-offer vs office specific.

Of course, any no offer will be in the interest of the firm. Idk why a firm would no-offer someone if it isn't in its best interest. As an SA, you want to minimize your chances of getting no-offered. Therefore, if you can go to a firm with a 100% offer rate, choose that. Because the reality is, you can always be that "one person" who gets no-offered.

The second-best alternative is choosing a firm that no-offered a larger pool of people. In your case, it's the national no-offer, not office-specific.

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Re: No-offer rates

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
de minimis wrote:Very likely due to the SA. I was in a very small summer class and one of us got no offered. Nobody saw it coming, but once people explained why, it was obviously the right move for the firm. One no offer out of 15 wouldn't concern me. I'd even view it as a positive. The firm cares more about protecting itself from a bad apple than keeping an arbitrary 100% offer rate.


I have the opposite view to be honest. My firm no-offered someone and cold-offered 3 people. In my own opinion, 1 no offer = 1 no offer plus 1-2 cold offers.

If I were you, I would choose the firm with the national no-offer vs office specific.

Of course, any no offer will be in the interest of the firm. Idk why a firm would no-offer someone if it isn't in its best interest. As an SA, you want to minimize your chances of getting no-offered. Therefore, if you can go to a firm with a 100% offer rate, choose that. Because the reality is, you can always be that "one person" who gets no-offered.

The second-best alternative is choosing a firm that no-offered a larger pool of people. In your case, it's the national no-offer, not office-specific.


Hm, interesting perspective on that. Don't actually have the offer form the national no-offer firm yet, just the other one. I kind of saw them as equal in this regard at first which is why I asked about both, but you make a good point.

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de minimis

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Re: No-offer rates

Postby de minimis » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:14 pm

Maybe both of our firms are outliers. My firm tried every which way to save this person. They checked with other offices, they tried to get other groups to take him. It took several meetings with the leaders of the firm to make it official. At the end of the day though, the person couldn't do the work and there wasn't much potential for that to be fixed. He asked for a cold offer but the firm said no because they didn't believe in cold offers and didn't want to be know for doing it.



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