Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

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Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:12 pm

Anyone have any information on how their no-offer rates compare? Thanks!

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:37 pm

This summer I believe everyone at Irell got an offer. From discussions during the summer it also seems like no offers are rare.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:41 pm

I believe Munger has had a 100% offer rate the last two summers (2017 & 16).

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I believe Munger has had a 100% offer rate the last two summers (2017 & 16).

If that's true, they've changed their approach. MTO used to routinely no-offer three or four summers a year.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I believe Munger has had a 100% offer rate the last two summers (2017 & 16).

If that's true, they've changed their approach. MTO used to routinely no-offer three or four summers a year.


They purposely had a smaller class this past summer (15) and don't allow summers to do the second half of their summer there any longer. So yes, I think their approach to the program has changed, although that's certainly not a guarantee of future 100% offer summers.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I believe Munger has had a 100% offer rate the last two summers (2017 & 16).

If that's true, they've changed their approach. MTO used to routinely no-offer three or four summers a year.


They purposely had a smaller class this past summer (15) and don't allow summers to do the second half of their summer there any longer. So yes, I think their approach to the program has changed, although that's certainly not a guarantee of future 100% offer summers.


Even when I was in law school it was only 1-2 summers getting no-offered per year (back when we had classes of 25-30). I know there was one summer where more than that were no-offered, but... eh, no comment there other than you never know what people are seeing on the inside.

It will never be a guaranteed 100% offer firm because of the way the firm makes hiring decisions + the nature of the firm. Bad hires cost more when your first-years are doing what would be midlevel work elsewhere; I imagine it's similar at e.g. Susman, though I haven't looked at the numbers. But I think there is increasing recognition that no offers come with a cost, too. I wouldn't be too surprised if between the smaller classes and the slightly changed attitudes, it'll shift more toward being a single-no-offer-every-two-or-three-years kind of place, which strikes me as reasonable for the size and type of the firm.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby cookiejar1 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:46 am

Must also be noted that you can afford to be less risk adverse given your credentials. I wouldn't choose between these firms based on perceived offer rates, especially if I already had a clerkship in hand. Focus on other things like fit, culture, type of work, etc.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:47 am

My summer there were 3 no offers at MTO, several suggested non-returns ("cold" offers), and that was known as the "lost summer": not to be repeated. The approach has been changed since then and I believe the past two summers have been 100%, with a significant overall decrease in starting class size. Basically the balance of the partnership has shifted from the old school sticklers who want to retain the power to veto a summer who doesn't *sparkle* (i.e., authors a bad memo) to those who want to preserve the firm's reputation at feeder schools. There's still a vocal and prominent stickler minority to be wary of, but it becomes a smaller minority with retirement.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Wonnker » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:35 pm

No-offers aside, do you know what "munging" is? Are you sure you'd be comfortable working with a Munger? To each his own, but I'd steer clear of the late-night graveyard parties if I were you.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:No-offers aside, do you know what "munging" is? Are you sure you'd be comfortable working with a Munger? To each his own, but I'd steer clear of the late-night graveyard parties if I were you.

/thread

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Rahviveh » Sun Sep 03, 2017 2:32 pm

Irell isn't in the same league as munger anymore

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:02 pm

Rahviveh wrote:Irell isn't in the same league as munger anymore

I'd be more interested in the no-offer rates at Hueston Hennigan vs. MTO personally, but kids in law school probably aren't aware of HH.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:30 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:Irell isn't in the same league as munger anymore

I'd be more interested in the no-offer rates at Hueston Hennigan vs. MTO personally, but kids in law school probably aren't aware of HH.


HH doesn't have a summer program.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:07 am

Pretty surprised that, given Munger's standards for SA offers, there'd routinely be a few people who (earn?) no-offers (by failing to "sparkle"?/be a "bad hire").

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby cookiejar1 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:24 am

PeanutsNJam wrote:Pretty surprised that, given Munger's standards for SA offers, there'd routinely be a few people who (earn?) no-offers (by failing to "sparkle"?/be a "bad hire").


Snowflakes gonna snowflake.

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Re: Risk of no-offer after summer at Irell v. Munger

Postby AspiringAspirant » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:32 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Pretty surprised that, given Munger's standards for SA offers, there'd routinely be a few people who (earn?) no-offers (by failing to "sparkle"?/be a "bad hire").


I imagine they get the occasional ethically-challenged Summer that many firms would similarly no-offer.



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