About to Strike Out

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About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:23 am

Rising 2L (transfer to T14 from TT).

I've been hearing a lot of inconsistent answers to these two questions, so please answer to the best of your abilities.

1) Is 3L OCI truly inconceivable?

2) To what extent would excellent grades as a 2L at the T14 help my 3L recruiting chances?

sparkytrainer

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby sparkytrainer » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:26 am

Go look at the 3L oci thread yourself. Its a bloodbath. It was like that last year as well. Sure a handful of people are getting something, but they are the SA v10 t6 top 25% kids who are looking at changing firms. Even some of them are striking out. It is brutal.

Keep mass mailing, networking, doing everything possible- because you cannot rely on 3L oci.

3L oci will also be essentially impossible without a 2L SA. You need to literally not even think about school and go network, spam alumns, etc and find something.
Last edited by sparkytrainer on Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:31 am

Keep mailing. Don't give up.

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Mullens

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Mullens » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Keep mailing. Don't give up.


Agreed. Now and in the next couple weeks is when I would expect mass mailing to start yielding interest for some people. Firms are pretty close to seeing how their initial offers pan out and the firms that get lower yield than expected will start interviewing more candidates.

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:43 pm

Imagine my mass mailing lands me 10-20 interviews, and I spend a large chunk of September flying around the country for interviews.

How am I expected to do respectably in class? If i go through 3L OCI, do 2L grades matter or are 1L grades definitive.

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Mullens

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Mullens » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Imagine my mass mailing lands me 10-20 interviews, and I spend a large chunk of September flying around the country for interviews.

How am I expected to do respectably in class? If i go through 3L OCI, do 2L grades matter or are 1L grades definitive.


You'll be fine. It's much more important to find a job than worry about your classes. You'll have a couple months to catch up. If you're really that concerned then just try to keep up with the reading while you travel. Many 2Ls and 3Ls get good grades in classes without reading or even buying the textbook.

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Imagine my mass mailing lands me 10-20 interviews, and I spend a large chunk of September flying around the country for interviews.

How am I expected to do respectably in class? If i go through 3L OCI, do 2L grades matter or are 1L grades definitive.


I struck out at OCI and worked 40 hours a week in two different jobs, networked, did pro bono work for securities lit boutiques, and still managed better 1L grades (wasn't hard, 1L grades were terrible and people stopped trying so hard at my school). You'll find time, just need to hustle and make getting a job priority number 1 until like a month from finals.

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:03 pm

How much effort should I put into cover letters? Do they matter? If so, what's the suggested format

ResIpsa21

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby ResIpsa21 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How much effort should I put into cover letters? Do they matter? If so, what's the suggested format

As with most things, some firms care and some firms don't. A lot of firms just use cover letters as another way to narrow the applicant pool. For example, if your cover letter emphasizes your interest in antitrust work but the firm has no room in their antitrust group, they can easily justify throwing out your application. On the other hand, I think cover letters have a lot of value as writing samples, at least for litigators. If you're not able to write persuasively about your own knowledge, skills, and experience, then how will you write persuasively on behalf of your clients?

But look, you're in a tough spot right now, so you should put in as much effort as you possibly can to maximize your chances. There are many ways to write a good cover letter, but I prefer the traditional five-paragraph approach. Paragraph one is the intro with all the fundamentals: "I am writing to apply for X," "I am particularly interested in [firm] because [reason]," "I am originally from [city] and intend to practice law there after my graduation" . . . that sort of stuff. Paragraphs two through four are substantive paragraphs with one big point each. Perhaps you have one paragraph talking about your passion for litigation/M&A/whatever and then two paragraphs discussing your skills and experience. These are the meat of your cover letter and your chance to sell yourself to the firm (and also show you know how to write effectively and persuasively). The fifth and final paragraph is the conclusion. Reiterate your desire to work for the firm, tell them any relevant logistical details (like if you'll be in their city and available for interviews at some point) and thank them for their consideration.

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Imagine my mass mailing lands me 10-20 interviews, and I spend a large chunk of September flying around the country for interviews.

How am I expected to do respectably in class? If i go through 3L OCI, do 2L grades matter or are 1L grades definitive.


I struck out at OCI and worked 40 hours a week in two different jobs, networked, did pro bono work for securities lit boutiques, and still managed better 1L grades (wasn't hard, 1L grades were terrible and people stopped trying so hard at my school). You'll find time, just need to hustle and make getting a job priority number 1 until like a month from finals.


This. I would also say the following:

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but mass mailing is substantially more difficult than OCI. I would be shocked if you get anywhere near 10 interviews. I haven't heard of anyone getting more than 3-5.

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:50 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:Go look at the 3L oci thread yourself. Its a bloodbath. It was like that last year as well. Sure a handful of people are getting something, but they are the SA v10 t6 top 25% kids who are looking at changing firms. Even some of them are striking out. It is brutal.

Keep mass mailing, networking, doing everything possible- because you cannot rely on 3L oci.

3L oci will also be essentially impossible without a 2L SA. You need to literally not even think about school and go network, spam alumns, etc and find something.


Agreed. I encourage you to MM and try your hardest to get something this year. 3L OCI is brutal even with a 2L SA.
I transferred to a T-14, got an offer from my SA at a V10, and currently going through 3L recruiting. It is challenging even with a SA. My friends w/o a 2L SA aren't even getting callbacks and I know they are trying.
Conclusion, try your hardest to find a job as a 2L. You still have time to MM and target different markets. I don't like generic cover letters but quantity over quality seems to be the TLS advice. Just make sure you don't mention a practice area the firm doesn't have, or have typos, the wrong firms, etc. Figure out how to study and MM/interview. You can take less credits or an easier class this semester and catch up later. I think grades do matter 2L, specially if you are trying to get something in the Spring, but not as much as 1L grades. Keep a positive attitude through out the process, and find support from friends and family. Remember that you are not alone and that you can turn things around. Good luck!

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:35 pm

So I bid to a v firm in DC and got an OCI screener but no CB.

Then, I saw someone at the table next to me at a restaurant talking about the LSAT/law firms. I calmly mentioned I had taken the LSAT, and next thing I knew she is a paralegal in that firms NYC office and volunteered to forward my resume to the NYC office. Their recruiting office e-mailed me, and I'm pretty sure an interview is gonna happen this week (likely a CB).

This firm at OCI did not allow students to bid for multiple office.

Will they grill me on why are you here in NY now if you previously applied to us in DC? (Will they even know ...).

If so, what's a good answer.

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UVA2B

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby UVA2B » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So I bid to a v firm in DC and got an OCI screener but no CB.

Then, I saw someone at the table next to me at a restaurant talking about the LSAT/law firms. I calmly mentioned I had taken the LSAT, and next thing I knew she is a paralegal in that firms NYC office and volunteered to forward my resume to the NYC office. Their recruiting office e-mailed me, and I'm pretty sure an interview is gonna happen this week (likely a CB).

This firm at OCI did not allow students to bid for multiple office.

Will they grill me on why are you here in NY now if you previously applied to us in DC? (Will they even know ...).

If so, what's a good answer.


The key here is to sell your interest in that particular firm, while downplaying the particular office (if it even comes up, which is less likely considering you're talking about an NYC office). If you're being expedited to the CB stage through a contact, you mainly need to look into the type of work the firm does, the clients they service in NYC, and why that practice area interests you and why you think it's a good fit.

I won't pretend to be an expert on this, but once you've reached the CB stage, your job is selling why you fit into that office specifically, not why they were originally your first choice of office. NYC offices are notoriously not ties specific, so if you focus your answers on the practice area and clients you want to go into, they'll appreciate your particular interest in the firm.

ResIpsa21

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Re: About to Strike Out

Postby ResIpsa21 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Will they grill me on why are you here in NY now if you previously applied to us in DC? (Will they even know ...).

If so, what's a good answer.

They might not know, and even if they do, it might not come up. If it was an issue, they wouldn't have invited you for a callback (assuming that's what this is). Callbacks are a huge waste of billable time and a pain for HR to schedule, so they're kept to a minimum. If you have one, it means nothing disqualifying has shown up so far in the process. All you need is a decent answer to "why NYC" which you can develop as UVA2B suggested. I would be surprised if anyone pressures you to explain "why did you want to work in DC more than NYC" but I suppose you can prepare an answer to that too -- ideally one that lets you pivot quickly to why you're so excited about NYC.



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