Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

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Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:56 pm

White Male
Mid-T14
Top 7ish %
Secondary Journal
Phi Beta Kappa at Top 5 Undergrad
1 year WE as a paralegal before Law School
1L SA in Chicago
Targeted Chicago
13 OCI Interviews
4 Callbacks
1 Offer at a V15 so far waiting to hear back on the other three, but I suspect one of them is a ding by now.
I did Mock interviews for the 1L SA hunt and OCI and have never been told I am a bad interviewer, although social anxiety caused me to get somewhat nervous and make weird eye contact in one of my callbacks.

I know this is a total first world problems thread given that I have an offer at a firm that I really enjoyed interviewing at. This is totally feeding into the toxicity of the whole process because I am only dissatisfied with my results because I have focused so much on the successes other people have had. Should I take my results as an indication that I am a terrible interviewer? I was very open in my interviews about the fact that I am seeking a clerkship and that I have already had an interview with a District Judge in my home state.

My advisor suggested that maybe some firms didn't offer me a callback as a form of yield protection/unwillingness to waste resources on a candidate they think they have no shot at getting. Is this a thing?

Should any of this matter at all? I am starting to think this whole process is making me develop a mental illness.

Thanks for suffering this post.

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Lacepiece23

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest

Postby Lacepiece23 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:00 pm

Dude you got a V15 offer. You didn't strike out. Getting good grades in law school doesn't guarantee success as a lawyer or guarantee you an job.

Maybe your interview skills were off, but if so, work on them in the future. Be happy you have a big law offer, and work hard to prove you're a good lawyer once you get there.

malibustacy

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest

Postby malibustacy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:03 pm

Who knows. It might be you, it might be something you said, you might be a below-average interviewer. If you targeted only Chicago firms, many of them might have simply not believed you would accept their offer given your pedigree. But it's healthier to look forward and see how you can improve rather than dwelling on the past.

You at least have one offer at a great firm. Congratulations! As far as everyone else knows, you had your pick of firms. So just shake it off and move on.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
My advisor suggested that maybe some firms didn't offer me a callback as a form of yield protection/unwillingness to waste resources on a candidate they think they have no shot at getting. Is this a thing?



Some firms do this. I applied in a non-DC/NY market and was definitely pushed in my interviews whenever it was a firm that paid below 180k. Only one or two explicitly came out and said "Why would you come to us instead of firms X, Y, and Z?" and XYZ were the top firms in the market, but it was clear that others were thinking about it.

Why spend the money on your for a callback if you're just going to turn them down anyway?

And don't overthink it. You have an offer at a top firm you say you like.

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okaygo

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby okaygo » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:04 pm

I get the feeling. Law school and hearing the amazing results of everyone around us can kill your self confidence/esteem, even when you had a successful cycle as well.

Considering that you snagged a 1L SA, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you're a bad interviewer. Maybe you simply didn't click with the other interviewers or it just wasn't a great fit. Converting 4 CBs to 1 offer is solid. Congratulations on the great offer. With your stats and goals you're on an excellent path!

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zhenders

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest

Postby zhenders » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:05 pm

It's healthy to want to learn whether there was something you did wrong, with a mind towards improving in the future. That said, it doesn't really seem as though that's why you're here.

You got an offer at a big firm in Chicago. You won; that's it. You can only accept one job. The toxicity you talk about is real, but it can only exist if you let it. The prestige toxicity of this whole profession requires two things: (1) peers who excel where you don't; and (2) personal obsession over that fact.

Don't obsess over it. It doesn't matter. Two years from now, no one will care what your GPA was. Or which firms did or did not offer you jobs. Or whether you made weird eye contact in an interview that one time. Or _____, or ______.

So to answer your most important question -- "should any of this matter at all?" -- the answer is, resoundingly, no. The biggest favor you can do yourself is to really work on locating a source of happiness beyond competing with your peers over unimportant things. I get that it all seems important, but it really isn't.

So with all that said, congrats on your offer! You won law school. Now go enjoy 2L, and if you have any friends or acquaintances who actually struck out, be sensitive to that and be supportive.

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Sacred Cow

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Sacred Cow » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:12 pm

You should be open to the possibility that your interview skills could be improved, but it's not always that mechanical. Sometimes people just get unlucky.

What stands out more to me is only 13 OCI interviews. 4 callbacks on 13 interviews seems pretty normal, but that's a small pool to start from. I hope you were mass mailing to supplement that.

Regardless, you got a great offer, so don't worry about it anymore. Engage chill mode and be thankful you aren't on law review.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:22 pm

zhenders wrote:It's healthy to want to learn whether there was something you did wrong, with a mind towards improving in the future. That said, it doesn't really seem as though that's why you're here.

You got an offer at a big firm in Chicago. You won; that's it. You can only accept one job. The toxicity you talk about is real, but it can only exist if you let it. The prestige toxicity of this whole profession requires two things: (1) peers who excel where you don't; and (2) personal obsession over that fact.

Don't obsess over it. It doesn't matter. Two years from now, no one will care what your GPA was. Or which firms did or did not offer you jobs. Or whether you made weird eye contact in an interview that one time. Or _____, or ______.

So to answer your most important question -- "should any of this matter at all?" -- the answer is, resoundingly, no. The biggest favor you can do yourself is to really work on locating a source of happiness beyond competing with your peers over unimportant things. I get that it all seems important, but it really isn't.

So with all that said, congrats on your offer! You won law school. Now go enjoy 2L, and if you have any friends or acquaintances who actually struck out, be sensitive to that and be supportive.


OP here. Thanks a lot for your reply. I definitely have some reflecting to do. You can only blame the career so much. At some point I have to take personal responsibility for allowing myself to become obsessed with the rat race.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:24 pm

I also have great stats and focused on Chicago and I also had a rough, but not fruitless, cycle. Nothing else to add besides that I feel u OP and thanks everyone for the perspective.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:29 pm

Sacred Cow wrote:You should be open to the possibility that your interview skills could be improved, but it's not always that mechanical. Sometimes people just get unlucky.

What stands out more to me is only 13 OCI interviews. 4 callbacks on 13 interviews seems pretty normal, but that's a small pool to start from. I hope you were mass mailing to supplement that.

Regardless, you got a great offer, so don't worry about it anymore. Engage chill mode and be thankful you aren't on law review.


OP again. I only did 13 OCI interviews because I had another offer in hand going into the process. (I know. This makes my crying a river seem even less legitimate.) It allowed me to exclude certain firms from my search because there was no possible situation in which I would accept an offer there. I thought of it as freeing up spots for my classmates (super noble, I know).

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zhenders

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby zhenders » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sacred Cow wrote:You should be open to the possibility that your interview skills could be improved, but it's not always that mechanical. Sometimes people just get unlucky.

What stands out more to me is only 13 OCI interviews. 4 callbacks on 13 interviews seems pretty normal, but that's a small pool to start from. I hope you were mass mailing to supplement that.

Regardless, you got a great offer, so don't worry about it anymore. Engage chill mode and be thankful you aren't on law review.


OP again. I only did 13 OCI interviews because I had another offer in hand going into the process. (I know. This makes my crying a river seem even less legitimate.) It allowed me to exclude certain firms from my search because there was no possible situation in which I would accept an offer there. I thought of it as freeing up spots for my classmates (super noble, I know).


Err... Yes. Yes, it does make your crying a river seem less legitimate.

This thread has entered into the realm of silly and embarrassingly self-involved.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:36 pm

zhenders wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Sacred Cow wrote:You should be open to the possibility that your interview skills could be improved, but it's not always that mechanical. Sometimes people just get unlucky.

What stands out more to me is only 13 OCI interviews. 4 callbacks on 13 interviews seems pretty normal, but that's a small pool to start from. I hope you were mass mailing to supplement that.

Regardless, you got a great offer, so don't worry about it anymore. Engage chill mode and be thankful you aren't on law review.


OP again. I only did 13 OCI interviews because I had another offer in hand going into the process. (I know. This makes my crying a river seem even less legitimate.) It allowed me to exclude certain firms from my search because there was no possible situation in which I would accept an offer there. I thought of it as freeing up spots for my classmates (super noble, I know).


Err... Yes. Yes, it does make your crying a river seem less legitimate.

This thread has entered into the realm of silly and embarrassingly self-involved.


OP here. Can't really argue with you, man. For the record, I was serious when I suggested that I am seriously acting delusional at the end of my initial post. I have never felt this way in my life before, and it is seriously concerning me. I think my main takeaway from this thread is that I need to work on my mentality.

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zhenders

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby zhenders » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
zhenders wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Sacred Cow wrote:You should be open to the possibility that your interview skills could be improved, but it's not always that mechanical. Sometimes people just get unlucky.

What stands out more to me is only 13 OCI interviews. 4 callbacks on 13 interviews seems pretty normal, but that's a small pool to start from. I hope you were mass mailing to supplement that.

Regardless, you got a great offer, so don't worry about it anymore. Engage chill mode and be thankful you aren't on law review.


OP again. I only did 13 OCI interviews because I had another offer in hand going into the process. (I know. This makes my crying a river seem even less legitimate.) It allowed me to exclude certain firms from my search because there was no possible situation in which I would accept an offer there. I thought of it as freeing up spots for my classmates (super noble, I know).


Err... Yes. Yes, it does make your crying a river seem less legitimate.

This thread has entered into the realm of silly and embarrassingly self-involved.


OP here. Can't really argue with you, man. For the record, I was serious when I suggested that I am seriously acting delusional at the end of my initial post. I have never felt this way in my life before, and it is seriously concerning me. I think my main takeaway from this thread is that I need to work on my mentality.


Law school can get really toxic; it's so easy for all of us to slip into this. It speaks really well of you that you care enough to identify it when it rears its head. Best of luck; congratulations again on your successes. If it continues to bother you, definitely reach out and speak to someone; far more of us in law school and in the profession than would admit check in with a counselor or psychologist every once in a while; it's good to be reminded by a professional that the world doesn't revolve around attorney prestige (it's jarringly difficult to believe otherwise while in the midst of it).

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby jhett » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:43 pm

Just take your offer and walk away from the echo chamber of OCI/law school for a bit. Hang out with non-law school friends, volunteer somewhere, play sports, go hiking... anything that can give you some perspective about life outside of the law school bubble.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:54 pm

If you were focused on litigation it was tough for everyone in Chicago it seems

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:44 pm

I don't blame you at all. I'm in exactly the same situation, and I can't help but feel a little bitter that my friends are all coming out with a bunch of offers and somehow I am not. Obviously it's not popular to be upset because we have some offers, but it's hard to separate yourself from these extrinsic signals of success. At the end of the day, all everyone sees is where you end up. So it doesn't matter if you had 15 other offers or none. Just keep swimming

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:50 pm

a) You did half as many interviews as most people do at a T14. Had you lowered your standards in the absence of an offer-in-hand, you almost certainly would have had twice as many interviews, callbacks, and offers, as the extra dozen or so screeners would have been less competitive.

b) Chicago has WAY fewer SA slots than NYC, and they care WAY more about ties than NYC.

The bottom line is that you deliberately targeted a competitive market and deliberately restricted your search to the most desirable landing spots. I'm not sure what you expected. Any V15 job in Chicago is a good get, so be grateful.

Edited to add - it's also relevant that "mid-T14" probably excludes UChi and NU. Really, those schools + Mich (to a much smaller extent) are the only T14 schools with anything like a pipeline to Chicago biglaw. 4/13 callback rate doesn't seem bizarre to me. 1 offer is a tad low, but I'm not sure how many I'd actually expect. Stop dwelling on it, and enjoy the good job you landed.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby star fox » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:02 pm

You could just say Sidley dude

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby sparkytrainer » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:04 pm

This thread is literally just a humblebrag for OP. Good job OP, now go away.

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby cheeseee » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:25 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:This thread is literally just a humblebrag for OP. Good job OP, now go away.


+1

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Re: Way Worse OCI Results than Stats Would Suggest?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:59 pm

FWIW I had 12 callbacks and only 1 offer out of OCI. Really crushed my confidence for a while there.

But I do agree that you should have outperformed what your actual results were. That said, put in a year or two at the V15 and you'll be able to jump ship up or down the V list without too much trouble. My coworker went from an NLJ250 to a V5 after 3 years.



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