Shit Law v other options

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Shit Law v other options

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:53 pm

Slightly above median at a t50. Shitlaw firm I worked at over the summer has indicated they have an interest in me working there after graduation. I'm not really too excited about the area of law but a job is a job. I'm working there now during the school year and am not sure if I should stick around or jump ship if I find an opportunity to work during the semester at a firm that practices in the area I am interested in. If I get to around top 1/3 would I have a good chance of landing another job?

lolwat

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby lolwat » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:01 pm

I wouldn't burn bridges with that firm since they're your only offer so far... so if you think they will look negatively upon you working somewhere else during the school year, don't. I wouldn't let that stop you from networking and trying to get interviews at other firms, though. Just don't go work somewhere else during the school year. Median versus top 33% at a t50, dunno, could very well improve your chances at smaller/regional firms.

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rpupkin

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby rpupkin » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Slightly above median at a t50. Shitlaw firm I worked at over the summer has indicated they have an interest in me working there after graduation. I'm not really too excited about the area of law but a job is a job. I'm working there now during the school year and am not sure if I should stick around or jump ship if I find an opportunity to work during the semester at a firm that practices in the area I am interested in. If I get to around top 1/3 would I have a good chance of landing another job?

I don't know about your school or your market, but I would be surprised if "top third" was meaningfully different than "slightly above median" for most employers.

Based on what I've observed at TT schools, the students with the top grades are in excellent shape, and the students with conspicuously horrible grades are in bad shape, but almost everyone in between is going to succeed or fail based on hustling, personality, and networking.

If you want to work at a different firm that practices in the area you're interested in, then get yourself out there. I'm not saying that you should completely ignore your classes and your grades, but you're very likely going to get more value from networking than you will from outlining (or whatever it is you would do to climb from slightly-above median to top third).

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby Johann » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:04 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Slightly above median at a t50. Shitlaw firm I worked at over the summer has indicated they have an interest in me working there after graduation. I'm not really too excited about the area of law but a job is a job. I'm working there now during the school year and am not sure if I should stick around or jump ship if I find an opportunity to work during the semester at a firm that practices in the area I am interested in. If I get to around top 1/3 would I have a good chance of landing another job?

I don't know about your school or your market, but I would be surprised if "top third" was meaningfully different than "slightly above median" for most employers.

Based on what I've observed at TT schools, the students with the top grades are in excellent shape, and the students with conspicuously horrible grades are in bad shape, but almost everyone in between is going to succeed or fail based on hustling, personality, and networking.

If you want to work at a different firm that practices in the area you're interested in, then get yourself out there. I'm not saying that you should completely ignore your classes and your grades, but you're very likely going to get more value from networking than you will from outlining (or whatever it is you would do to climb from slightly-above median to top third).

yep

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:34 pm

So don't take another job unless there's a guarantee that it's going to lead to a full time job after graduation? How difficult is it to change practice areas once you've started? Current firm does litigation which I'm not interested in.

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby rpupkin » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So don't take another job unless there's a guarantee that it's going to lead to a full time job after graduation?[

It's up to you how much risk you want to take. But if you currently have a guaranteed job post-grad, I probably wouldn't give that up without having something lined up. Read the "vale of tears" thread to get a sense of how stressful it is to face the prospect of long-term unemployment after law school.


Anonymous User wrote:How difficult is it to change practice areas once you've started? Current firm does litigation which I'm not interested in.

It depends on the practice area, but it shouldn't be too difficult if you're relatively junior.

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deadpanic

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby deadpanic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:50 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So don't take another job unless there's a guarantee that it's going to lead to a full time job after graduation?[

It's up to you how much risk you want to take. But if you currently have a guaranteed job post-grad, I probably wouldn't give that up without having something lined up. Read the "vale of tears" thread to get a sense of how stressful it is to face the prospect of long-term unemployment after law school.


Anonymous User wrote:How difficult is it to change practice areas once you've started? Current firm does litigation which I'm not interested in.

It depends on the practice area, but it shouldn't be too difficult if you're relatively junior.


I think everything above is right on, but I take issue with the latter post. If he is going to shit law litigation, he won't ever be able to do corporate.

Pretty doubtful a basically median guy from T50 (which is meaningless) at a shitlaw firm can lateral to corporate.

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northwood

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby northwood » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:56 pm

if you are 2L, you have more time to try find something else.. if you are a 3L, then take the job

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rpupkin

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby rpupkin » Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:58 pm

deadpanic wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So don't take another job unless there's a guarantee that it's going to lead to a full time job after graduation?[

It's up to you how much risk you want to take. But if you currently have a guaranteed job post-grad, I probably wouldn't give that up without having something lined up. Read the "vale of tears" thread to get a sense of how stressful it is to face the prospect of long-term unemployment after law school.


Anonymous User wrote:How difficult is it to change practice areas once you've started? Current firm does litigation which I'm not interested in.

It depends on the practice area, but it shouldn't be too difficult if you're relatively junior.


I think everything above is right on, but I take issue with the latter post. If he is going to shit law litigation, he won't ever be able to do corporate.

Pretty doubtful a basically median guy from T50 (which is meaningless) at a shitlaw firm can lateral to corporate.

I think we're reading OP's post differently. You understood his last sentence to mean "I'm not interested in litigation," while I read it to mean "my current firm does a type of litigation I'm not interested in." You inserted a comma between "litigation" and "which"—which is perhaps what OP intended.

If your reading is correct, then I agree with your conclusion. If my reading is correct, then I stand by my post: it's possible for a junior litigation associate at a small firm to lateral to a different litigation practice area at another small-to-medium sized firm.

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deadpanic

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby deadpanic » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:05 pm

rpupkin wrote:
deadpanic wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So don't take another job unless there's a guarantee that it's going to lead to a full time job after graduation?[

It's up to you how much risk you want to take. But if you currently have a guaranteed job post-grad, I probably wouldn't give that up without having something lined up. Read the "vale of tears" thread to get a sense of how stressful it is to face the prospect of long-term unemployment after law school.


Anonymous User wrote:How difficult is it to change practice areas once you've started? Current firm does litigation which I'm not interested in.

It depends on the practice area, but it shouldn't be too difficult if you're relatively junior.


I think everything above is right on, but I take issue with the latter post. If he is going to shit law litigation, he won't ever be able to do corporate.

Pretty doubtful a basically median guy from T50 (which is meaningless) at a shitlaw firm can lateral to corporate.

I think we're reading OP's post differently. You understood his last sentence to mean "I'm not interested in litigation," while I read it to mean "my current firm does a type of litigation I'm not interested in." You inserted a comma between "litigation" and "which"—which is perhaps what OP intended.

If your reading is correct, then I agree with your conclusion. If my reading is correct, then I stand by my post: it's possible for a junior litigation associate at a small firm to lateral to a different litigation practice area at another small-to-medium sized firm.


I see what you are saying, but he states he is not interested in litigation at all. I guess I just can't see a median person from a top 50 able to lateral into a big law firm (since most small law firms are litigation oriented and no credentials otherwise), which seems to be what he is getting at, but I could be wrong in my reading as well.

Edited to add: He could go to another firm for litigation, sure, depending on the practice area, but it is so wide it could also pigeon-hole him. On second reading, I see what you're getting at; just think it depends on what litigation he is going to.

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:00 pm

OP here. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm a 3L. I'm not interested in the type of litigation the firm does. I'm open to doing other types of litigation but would rather do transactional work. I realize however that this may be difficult considering my school/rank. I'm also interested in immigration but have had a hard time finding work in this area (probably because I don't speak Spanish).

tyroneslothrop1

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:10 pm

Take the job. Much, much easier to find a job when you have a job.

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Re: Shit Law v other options

Postby lolwat » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm a 3L. I'm not interested in the type of litigation the firm does. I'm open to doing other types of litigation but would rather do transactional work. I realize however that this may be difficult considering my school/rank. I'm also interested in immigration but have had a hard time finding work in this area (probably because I don't speak Spanish).


Litigation->Transactional will be difficult especially since you're probably locked out of biglaw
Litigation->other Litigation is ok
TBH with your ranking/school, it's more about (a) being thankful you have a job lined up already and definitely not burning that bridge and (b) hustling and networking hard if you want a shot at something better, either now or down the road when you're in practice
Shitlaw->better firm is not always that difficult as long as shitlaw doesn't mean like DUI crap. If you do good work, get some good experience and get people to like you, opportunities open up. (Plus too many people use "shitlaw" too liberally. Just because it's a small firm doesn't necessarily mean it's shitlaw. Not enough info here.)



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