What if GPA doesn't go up?

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What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:34 pm

SA at a Big Law this summer. Received an offer to come back. I was told in my end-of-summer review that they want my GPA to go up. Right now it's in median range at a T-14. I registered for 15 credits this fall (one 3-credit and three 4-credit classes--think Securities, Finance, M&A, Tax type of classes). Should I drop one class to make it easier for me? Does it look bad if I only have 11-12 credits? What would happen if my GPA doesn't go up? Will they rescind the offer?

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:SA at a Big Law this summer. Received an offer to come back. I was told in my end-of-summer review that they want my GPA to go up. Right now it's in median range at a T-14. I registered for 15 credits this fall (one 3-credit and three 4-credit classes--think Securities, Finance, M&A, Tax type of classes). Should I drop one class to make it easier for me? Does it look bad if I only have 11-12 credits? What would happen if my GPA doesn't go up? Will they rescind the offer?


Wow, have never heard of something like this before. Is this NY? Mind sharing roughly which V range? Median GPA doesn't sound bad at a T-14 unless you had a B- or C in one class.

Why don't you take fewer black-letter classes and more easy-A seminars or directed study or whatnot? Can easily get your needed # of credits + boost your GPA without overloading yourself if you load up on the seminars instead of BLL classes.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Did your GPA go significantly down 2L year since you were hired last summer/fall? This is shocking to me, and a little unnerving.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby bruinfan10 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:SA at a Big Law this summer. Received an offer to come back. I was told in my end-of-summer review that they want my GPA to go up. Right now it's in median range at a T-14. I registered for 15 credits this fall (one 3-credit and three 4-credit classes--think Securities, Finance, M&A, Tax type of classes). Should I drop one class to make it easier for me? Does it look bad if I only have 11-12 credits? What would happen if my GPA doesn't go up? Will they rescind the offer?

dude, if they really said that, yeah....maximize your gpa dooder. how is this even a question? take the easiest classes you can. if you're not gunning for a clerkship, don't worry about taking the toughest professors or most impressive courses---you already have your offer. law school classes are garbage in terms of gaining substantive experience for your job anyway.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:42 pm

I'm not sure raising your gpa is the point here. Unless your gpa tanked 2L year, they knew what they were getting when they hired your for an SA. What would be the point of you having a good gpa 3L year? Its not like they can brag about it on the firm website (unless you were hired on track to graduate with honors and fell out of range). This sounds like an escape clause/potential cold offer.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:49 pm

Median at T-14 doesn't sound bad to me.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sure raising your gpa is the point here. Unless your gpa tanked 2L year, they knew what they were getting when they hired your for an SA. What would be the point of you having a good gpa 3L year? Its not like they can brag about it on the firm website (unless you were hired on track to graduate with honors and fell out of range). This sounds like an escape clause/potential cold offer.


Doesn't really sound like a cold offer because it's very plausible OP could raise her/his GPA back to 1L levels during 3L (especially if OP takes easier classes). But agreed that it's odd for a firm to be so concerned about GPA. Is this Wachtell or W&C?

And as a general rule, yea, median at a T-14 isn't bad. Almost all firms - even most V10 - will hire down to median at T-14. So seems super odd a firm would be concerned about GPA dropping to median - unless firm really is Wachtell/W&C.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:04 pm

My GPA went from 3.5x-3.7x range to 3.3x-3.4x range. Not sure if the drop is considered significant by firms' standard. Can't give more details about firm. So as long as I get my GPA up, my firm wouldn't care what classes I take, correct?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:08 pm

delete

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Wild Card

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Wild Card » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:26 pm

What TTT firm is this, Gibson Dunn?

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby QContinuum » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:My GPA went from 3.5x-3.7x range to 3.3x-3.4x range. Not sure if the drop is considered significant by firms' standard. Can't give more details about firm. So as long as I get my GPA up, my firm wouldn't care what classes I take, correct?


Did they say they care what classes you take? To be on the safe side, I'd stock up on the easy seminars, but still pick ones that can plausibly be argued to be relevant to your interests/practice area. That way, in case you're asked, you can give a reasonable-sounding, non-grades-related explanation for taking them.

I have never heard of firms calling folks out for having their GPA drop 0.2 (excepting drops below 3.0, I suppose). This is a very unusual situation and I'm sorry.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby tyroneslothrop1 » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:34 pm

In a lot of seminars half or more of the class gets an A or A-. Definitely do a couple of those. Taking into account your classmates not trying, and you having motivation to do so, it should not be difficult to raise your GPA a bit.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby sparkytrainer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:34 pm

This smells to me like a cold offer. Unless the firm is WC or Wachtell. Assuming it is not, this is sketchy.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Wild Card » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:35 pm

tyroneslothrop1 wrote:In a lot of seminars half or more of the class gets an A or A-. Definitely do a couple of those. Taking into account your classmates not trying, and you having motivation to do so, it should not be difficult to raise your GPA a bit.


It really depends on the school. At Columbia and NYU, seminars are guaranteed B+s and nothing more.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:41 pm

Wild Card wrote:
tyroneslothrop1 wrote:In a lot of seminars half or more of the class gets an A or A-. Definitely do a couple of those. Taking into account your classmates not trying, and you having motivation to do so, it should not be difficult to raise your GPA a bit.


It really depends on the school. At Columbia and NYU, seminars are guaranteed B+s and nothing more.


Not quite true at C - seminars can have more than 2/3rds A/A- grades with remainder largely being B+s. Imagine N is similar. Think it should be a pretty safe bet OP can land in the top ~66% of the class given her/his motivation (and the other 3Ls' lack thereof).

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:57 pm

Had a very similar situation at a firm this summer. it sucks.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:03 pm

I wouldn't bank on returning to this firm and would do 3L recruiting and say nothing about the grades requirement when asked. Think of another reason you want to switch firms. This smells like a really bizarre cold offer.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't bank on returning to this firm and would do 3L recruiting and say nothing about the grades requirement when asked. Think of another reason you want to switch firms. This smells like a really bizarre cold offer.


Seconded - 3L recruiting is tough, but in your case is possibly more realistic than for anyone else given that you've done a 2L SA, have an offer, and are presumably at a very prestigious firm (given the GPA talk...). If you secure an offer at another firm, you can then stop worrying about the arbitrariness of grades and breathe much easier.

I mean I can see a firm not wanting someone to start racking up Cs or B-s but blasting someone for having a 3.3/3.4 GPA is just absurd.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:25 pm

Once you've been there for a summer and they've seen your work and decided to offer you, I don't see why grades matter at that point. This seems like a reason to get rid of you later on and maybe save their offer rate?

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:52 pm

Agreed. This doesn't sound like a true cold offer, but still doesn't feel right. OP, definitely mass mail to other firms 3L and take some easy classes.

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Had a very similar situation at a firm this summer. it sucks.


What is your situation? Another 0.2 drop?

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not sure raising your gpa is the point here. Unless your gpa tanked 2L year, they knew what they were getting when they hired your for an SA. What would be the point of you having a good gpa 3L year? Its not like they can brag about it on the firm website (unless you were hired on track to graduate with honors and fell out of range). This sounds like an escape clause/potential cold offer.


Doesn't really sound like a cold offer because it's very plausible OP could raise her/his GPA back to 1L levels during 3L (especially if OP takes easier classes). But agreed that it's odd for a firm to be so concerned about GPA. Is this Wachtell or W&C?

And as a general rule, yea, median at a T-14 isn't bad. Almost all firms - even most V10 - will hire down to median at T-14. So seems super odd a firm would be concerned about GPA dropping to median - unless firm really is Wachtell/W&C.


Do W&C/WLRK do this? Asking for a friend who wants to slack off 2/3L...

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:17 pm

Why is everyone asking if it was White & Case? Do they have a reputation for this?

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby magnum_law » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Why is everyone asking if it was White & Case? Do they have a reputation for this?


I'm assuming by W&C, they mean Williams & Connolly :lol:

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Re: What if GPA doesn't go up?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do W&C/WLRK do this? Asking for a friend who wants to slack off 2/3L...


Previous anon. Have not actually heard of W&C/WLRK doing this, so your friend shouldn't worry. I only mentioned them by way of example because they were the only firms I could think of that might have any conceivable reason to legitimately care about a 0.2 drop to median, given their extreme 1L GPA requirements.

And yes, pretty sure everyone ITT is using W&C to refer to Williams & Connolly.



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