NJ, DE, and PA firms

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Bellini
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:53 pm

NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Bellini » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:56 pm

.
Last edited by Bellini on Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lilboat
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:23 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby lilboat » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:00 pm

1. Where do you want to live?
2. What area do you wish to practice?
3. What are your goals post-biglaw?

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:09 pm

I had offers from both firm in Big 4 and a firm in Philly named above. Ultimately chose the Philly firm. I liked the people at both. For me, two factors were important. (1) Even working in DE, I would never want to live in Wilmington, and would want to be in Philly. So, if I worked in DE, the commute would be long on top of already long biglaw hours. (2) I was interested in litigation. DE seems to be very corporate focused.

Bellini
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:53 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Bellini » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:22 pm

.
Last edited by Bellini on Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jchiles
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby jchiles » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:38 pm

You probably can get the most bang for your buck housing wise relative to commute living in Chester or Delaware county and commuting into Wilmington or maybe living south of Newark in Delaware. Delaware taxes and COL are noticeably lower but the schools are bad and it's Delaware.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:04 pm

Don't want to hijack the thread, just a quick question for anyone with knowledge … How early is too early to try to lateral to one of these firms from a NYC v10? I'm from the area and chose NYC, but am kind of regretting it b/c money goes much further in NJ/DE/PA

eastcoast_iub
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby eastcoast_iub » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:21 pm

Former Big 4 associate here, caution for DE is that it can be hard to get out if you get tired of doing local counsel work. Former colleague is experiencing this now.

Hijacker -- We had someone from Cravath and another person from S&C lateral in when I was there (they left pretty quickly though, one went back to NYC and another to DE outpost of big NY firm). I don't think it'd be hard at all, just make sure you're comfortable playing second fiddle all the time.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:37 pm

My supervisor worked at Lowestein, from what I heard they expect NYC hours but for NJ pay. That said, exit ops in tri-state are really good.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:43 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:Hijacker -- We had someone from Cravath and another person from S&C lateral in when I was there (they left pretty quickly though, one went back to NYC and another to DE outpost of big NY firm). I don't think it'd be hard at all, just make sure you're comfortable playing second fiddle all the time.


By chance do you know how much time they spent in NY prior to the lateral? And by second fiddle you mean second fiddle to NY firms leading on the transactions?

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:48 pm

Not OP, but I have the same decision to make. How much cheaper is the cost of living in Roseland, NJ compared to NYC and Philly?

FormerChild
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:41 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby FormerChild » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not OP, but I have the same decision to make. How much cheaper is the cost of living in Roseland, NJ compared to NYC and Philly?


This link gives you a general idea-- http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/sav ... lator.aspx

eastcoast_iub
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby eastcoast_iub » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:Hijacker -- We had someone from Cravath and another person from S&C lateral in when I was there (they left pretty quickly though, one went back to NYC and another to DE outpost of big NY firm). I don't think it'd be hard at all, just make sure you're comfortable playing second fiddle all the time.


By chance do you know how much time they spent in NY prior to the lateral? And by second fiddle you mean second fiddle to NY firms leading on the transactions?


They came in as mid-levels, I think 2-3 years experience. And yes always second fiddle to the big national firms. Work is focused on technical aspects of DE law.

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby los blancos » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:17 pm

eastcoast_iub wrote:Former Big 4 associate here, caution for DE is that it can be hard to get out if you get tired of doing local counsel work. Former colleague is experiencing this now.

Hijacker -- We had someone from Cravath and another person from S&C lateral in when I was there (they left pretty quickly though, one went back to NYC and another to DE outpost of big NY firm). I don't think it'd be hard at all, just make sure you're comfortable playing second fiddle all the time.


Curious -- were you lit or corp?

On the Lit side, I was under the impression that the Big 4 were basically relegated to local counsel roles on D. Ct. cases (especially IP) but often run Chancery lit and handle most of the substantive work in those cases?

User avatar
AT9
Posts: 1803
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby AT9 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:54 pm

Don't think I've seen this posted here yet: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=249542&hilit=have+you+considered+delaware

eastcoast_iub
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby eastcoast_iub » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:44 pm

los blancos wrote:
eastcoast_iub wrote:Former Big 4 associate here, caution for DE is that it can be hard to get out if you get tired of doing local counsel work. Former colleague is experiencing this now.

Hijacker -- We had someone from Cravath and another person from S&C lateral in when I was there (they left pretty quickly though, one went back to NYC and another to DE outpost of big NY firm). I don't think it'd be hard at all, just make sure you're comfortable playing second fiddle all the time.


Curious -- were you lit or corp?

On the Lit side, I was under the impression that the Big 4 were basically relegated to local counsel roles on D. Ct. cases (especially IP) but often run Chancery lit and handle most of the substantive work in those cases?


I was in corp. It was nothing but legal opinions.

I did hear from lit colleagues that they had more substantive involvement with drafting motions, etc. But ultimately lead counsel is holding the pen, doing the briefing, etc.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:58 am

Currently work in DE. I would echo what eastcoast_iub has said. For numerous reasons (and this goes for most people, not just OP and the other V10 associate asking), if you have other options, don't choose DE.

User avatar
los blancos
Posts: 8418
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:18 pm

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby los blancos » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Currently work in DE. I would echo what eastcoast_iub has said. For numerous reasons (and this goes for most people, not just OP and the other V10 associate asking), if you have other options, don't choose DE.


When people say things like this they should really specify corp or lit at a minimum.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:09 pm

DE litigator here. eastcoast_iub has made some good points, but los blancos is correct that, in Chancery cases, DE litigators often act as lead counsel (i.e., without co-counsel) or in partnership with co-counsel. That said, there are definitely cases where out-of-town co-counsel takes the laboring oar and DE counsel acts in a consulting and administrative role. IME, roughly 30% of my cases have been ones where my firm acted as lead or primary counsel; 60% where my firm acted in a true partnership with co-counsel (e.g., split up sections of briefs, depositions, witnesses, arguments, etc.); and 10% where my firm acted in a strictly local role. Ultimately, I spend roughly 99% of my time on cases in which my firm has deep substantive involvement.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:08 pm

los blancos wrote:When people say things like this they should really specify corp or lit at a minimum.


I'm transactional. While I understand your point, I don't see the distinction as meaningful to what I was getting at, however poorly I communicated it. At my firm, yeah, maybe you work on more substantive matters or are lead counsel non-trivially more if you're in corp lit than if you're in alt entities rendering power and authority opinions all day, but you're also expected to bill 2400+ hours a year in corp lit. I don't think that kind of workload is what people think of when they think about practicing law in DE.

Also, I'd say previous anon's breakdown of lead counsel vs. co-counsel roles, at least IME for all practice groups, is pretty optimistic. The relationship dynamic between partners at DE firms and forwarding counsel makes it clear who's in charge, even if forwarding counsel cedes over substantial parts of a case/deal.

And all of this is sort of a side point to the fact that you have live/work in Wilmington, which is objectively terrible. So if you have other options, what's the draw here?

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:but you're also expected to bill 2400+ hours a year in corp lit.


Is this pretty standard for big 4 corp lit departments?

Also, I think the "Wilmington is objectively terrible" line is a little overblown. Yeah, it sucks compared to other places where someone is likely to have decent biglaw options, but it's no worse IMO than most other mid-size metros of about 500k-600k (using New Castle County's population, given Wilmington is technically part of Philly's MSA).

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:39 am

Has anyone heard from Riker Danzig or Fox Rothschild Princeton, NJ?

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:58 pm

To bump the above: has anyone heard from Riker Danzig?

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To bump the above: has anyone heard from Riker Danzig?


Radio silence from them for me

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To bump the above: has anyone heard from Riker Danzig?


Radio silence from them for me


When did you have your CB? Mine was the 2nd week of August but I was told I'd know by the end of the month. Can't tell if they had too many callbacks or it's a ding.

Anonymous User
Posts: 301480
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: NJ, DE, and PA firms

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To bump the above: has anyone heard from Riker Danzig?


Radio silence from them for me


When did you have your CB? Mine was the 2nd week of August but I was told I'd know by the end of the month. Can't tell if they had too many callbacks or it's a ding.


Mine was near the end of August, they told me mid-September but that seems to be around now..




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.