PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

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PW v. Weil v. K&E (NY - Corporate)

Paul, Weiss
14
23%
Weil
21
34%
Kirkland & Ellis
26
43%
 
Total votes: 61

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PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:53 pm

Okay - here we go. Grateful to have these options, but having a very difficult time choosing between them. Would love to get some feedback.

Only interested in corporate, but not certain what I want to specialize in. Maybe M&A, but nothing set in stone. Liked the people I met with at all three firms, and could see myself at all of them. Briefly, my thoughts about each:

Paul, Weiss - probably my favorite. However, I know they're known for lit, not corporate. I am worried that I wouldn't have some of the opportunities on the corporate side as I would at Weil and K&E. Although, I have heard they have really ramped up corporate in the last few years and look to continue doing so.

Weil - culture seemed great (for a V10, that is). Seem to be really solid across the board on the corporate side of things. Don't really have any concerns.

Kirkland & Ellis - heard work/life balance is awful (even compared to their NY peers). But, by choosing NY biglaw, I am assuming I won't have a life, so that's not really a concern for me. More concerned that the firm's best work/clients are concentrated in the Chicago office. That being said, I really enjoyed meeting with everyone there and associates seemed very busy and were doing interesting work.

I feel that Weil is the obvious pick. But, idk, something keeps pulling me back to Paul, Weiss (and K&E to a lesser extent). Maybe they're just blowing smoke, but I felt that PW wants to make corporate a priority going forward and recent laterals reflect that.

Would appreciate feedback immensely. Thanks!

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:00 pm

K&E's culture would be a massive turnoff for me personally. Would go with where you liked the people better at Weil/PW. They're honesty all peers anyway, don't think you can go wrong. Your career in 5 years will be dictated by the work you happen to do and the partners you end up working a lot with

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:K&E's culture would be a massive turnoff for me personally. Would go with where you liked the people better at Weil/PW. They're honesty all peers anyway, don't think you can go wrong. Your career in 5 years will be dictated by the work you happen to do and the partners you end up working a lot with

Thanks for your response. Anything about K&E's culture specifically that makes it so bad?

Also, any way to distinguish between PW and Weil? I get that it depends on what I work on/who I work with. Assuming that, since their peers, neither have consistently better work/clients that would be more likely to lead to better exit opportunities five years down the line?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:K&E's culture would be a massive turnoff for me personally. Would go with where you liked the people better at Weil/PW. They're honesty all peers anyway, don't think you can go wrong. Your career in 5 years will be dictated by the work you happen to do and the partners you end up working a lot with

Thanks for your response. Anything about K&E's culture specifically that makes it so bad?

Also, any way to distinguish between PW and Weil? I get that it depends on what I work on/who I work with. Assuming that, since their peers, neither have consistently better work/clients that would be more likely to lead to better exit opportunities five years down the line?


Theyre really up front about their culture. You can read up on it, it's discussed ad nauseum on TLS and elsewhere. It's not for everyone.

You could take a second look and ask attorneys whatever pressing questions you have about work, culture, etc. (+ Generally just get a better feel of the place in a more relaxed context)

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby BlueParrot » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:43 pm

If you like PW, go there. Their corporate practice is strong enough that you aren't closing any future doors by going there. Chambers ranks Weil and K&E as tier 2 in NYC M&A while PW is tier 3, basically there isn't much difference. If you look at the Legal 500 rankings, all three firms are in the same tier for M&A. If you knew of a specific corp group that you wanted to do, we might be able to give more insight, but based on what you said you can't go wrong here. Might as well pick the firm you got the best vibe from.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:04 pm

BlueParrot wrote:If you like PW, go there. Their corporate practice is strong enough that you aren't closing any future doors by going there. Chambers ranks Weil and K&E as tier 2 in NYC M&A while PW is tier 3, basically there isn't much difference. If you look at the Legal 500 rankings, all three firms are in the same tier for M&A. If you knew of a specific corp group that you wanted to do, we might be able to give more insight, but based on what you said you can't go wrong here. Might as well pick the firm you got the best vibe from.

At this point, leaning towards M&A or PE. Not certain, but I know I want to try each.

Appreciate the advice. If the quality of work is truly a tie, I will choose off culture.

Curious, though, why so much K&E love in the poll?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:06 pm

KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.

Yeah, I get that. But I figured the prestige reflected the Chicago office rather than NY. Does NY do similar quantity of work/quality of clients as Chicago?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:14 pm

Firmwide. Focus has been shifting from Chicago to NYC for some time now and will be headed that way. You can't go wrong though. Do a little diligence and look at partner bios for each of the firms. See size of deals/clients to get a good idea of what you would be looking at.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:20 pm

If you think K&E would be a good fit for your personality, then choose K&E. If not, just flip a coin - no substantial difference between Weil and PW.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.


IDK if this is true..I would say that for NY Corporate K&E is probably slightly a step below (at best peers) unless you're purely looking at PE.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.


IDK if this is true..I would say that for NY Corporate K&E is probably slightly a step below (at best peers) unless you're purely looking at PE.

Non-PE corporate work more based in Chicago?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:26 pm

Paul, Weiss has been on the "we're growing our corporate practice schtick" for close to a decade. The Scott Barshay hire was huge for business but I've heard rumblings that he changed the culture of the corporate group in a very negative way. Seems like he's awful to work for and he's generating a good portion of PW's M&A work. If you do a second look, try to pry about any culture shifts and be wary of even tepid criticism bc some may not outright tell you (like my law school friends who work there have been candid like me).

It'll pretty much all be the same in the end so just go where you like the people the best.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:39 pm

Full disclosure: I'm a pw lit associate.

I'd say go w the people you like. Our chairman has really been pushing corporate lately and as with the barshay hire, they have the resources to do it. I can't comment that much on corp culture but I like firm management and think they do what they can to make this job the least shitty possible. Our culture is pretty much opposite to Kirkland though, at least from what I have seen.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.


If you're interested in corporate K&E and Weil are basically the same firm - both are very strong in PE. KE is definitely not a step above the other two, particularly its NY office.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby mvp99 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:21 pm

Umm KE is right there with STB on PE except KE does more middle market.. is Weils PE strong? First time I read that

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:37 pm

I worked at Weil and know a few people at both KE and PW. I think this decision is definitely between Weil and KE. PW is a great firm, but just isn't the type of corporate powerhouse across the board like KE and Weil are. I honestly couldn't imagine a better firm from all perspectives than Weil, and this is coming from someone that hates big law in general and thought Weil was way too intense (just not cut out for V10 NYC corporate life).

They have top tier clients across the board, people are really good at their jobs and generally quite pleasant to work with. They definitely seem to have a no asshole policy (as much as one can), which is evident in their hiring practices (they definitely dip further into the class than most top firms to find people they think fit in personality wise). Most partners I met in corporate were pretty decent to work for and all the bad ones I knew left for KE. The only problem with Weil is that you start in a particular group, so you really have to navigate to get a group you want and its a little more competitive. I think the obvious choice is Weil. Unless you really liked the culture of KE, but I feel like most wouldn't like working there.

Just a small FYI, I know people that have gone from Weil to KE across a bunch of groups, either they were told they weren't making partner, or they wanted the chance at more money (everyone at Weil gets bonus, regardless of hours), and all of them said the money is amazing, but its a terrible place to be an associate if you aren't super aggressive and not willing to put in grueling hours.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:42 pm

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Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby $$$$$$ » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:KE is just a more prestigious firm. All are great but Kirkland probably considered a step above the other two.


Anyone using prestige as a reason to pick one of these firms over another is someone that shouldn't be listened to. If any of these firms are on your resume, you're probably in a good spot as long as you're a lawyer.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I worked at Weil and know a few people at both KE and PW. I think this decision is definitely between Weil and KE. PW is a great firm, but just isn't the type of corporate powerhouse across the board like KE and Weil are. I honestly couldn't imagine a better firm from all perspectives than Weil, and this is coming from someone that hates big law in general and thought Weil was way too intense (just not cut out for V10 NYC corporate life).


Ehh - if OP is interested in corporate/m&a, then OP should focus on the strength of each firm's specific corporate/m&a group as these firms are largely big picture peers outside of that. I'm not at Paul, Weiss but I'm from a firm where they've taken some really big name partners recently and I have to say that I'm really impressed with their group. You can do some real big ticket PE work over there (although you'll have to work with Apollo (do a forum search)) or some blue chip public m&a/activist defense (although you'll have to take the HEAT). Either path will give you top-of-the-market training/development/experience if you can last a few years.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:23 pm

mvp99 wrote:Umm KE is right there with STB on PE except KE does more middle market.. is Weils PE strong? First time I read that


Is this a serious post?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I worked at Weil and know a few people at both KE and PW. I think this decision is definitely between Weil and KE. PW is a great firm, but just isn't the type of corporate powerhouse across the board like KE and Weil are. I honestly couldn't imagine a better firm from all perspectives than Weil, and this is coming from someone that hates big law in general and thought Weil was way too intense (just not cut out for V10 NYC corporate life).


Ehh - if OP is interested in corporate/m&a, then OP should focus on the strength of each firm's specific corporate/m&a group as these firms are largely big picture peers outside of that. I'm not at Paul, Weiss but I'm from a firm where they've taken some really big name partners recently and I have to say that I'm really impressed with their group. You can do some real big ticket PE work over there (although you'll have to work with Apollo (do a forum search)) or some blue chip public m&a/activist defense (although you'll have to take the HEAT). Either path will give you top-of-the-market training/development/experience if you can last a few years.


How do you feel about Barshay?

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:26 pm

I had callbacks at all 3 offices and ended up at Kirkland NY last summer. All 3 are solid firms. I liked the people I met at Kirkland, and this heavily influenced my decision. I also liked having some say in who I work with and what type of work I do.

Kirkland NY's corporate practice is top of the line for PE clients. I don't really understand the whole thing about Chicago having "more prestigious work" because what does that actually mean. Associates work on a lot of different matters at once.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:[Kirkland is] really up front about their culture. You can read up on it, it's discussed ad nauseum on TLS and elsewhere. It's not for everyone.

You could take a second look and ask attorneys whatever pressing questions you have about work, culture, etc. (+ Generally just get a better feel of the place in a more relaxed context)


Second this. Did not apply to K&E largely because of multiple recruiting events I attended earlier in the year. They are super up front about their entrepreneurial, competitive culture. Weil couldn't be more different. If you're a fan of the free market system and taking things into your own hands, go to Kirkland. If you'd prefer a collaborative, "nicer" culture, definitely don't go to K&E. Kirkland's a great firm but it's not for everyone.

Have heard from PW lit folks that PW corporate is kind of competitive and sharp-elbowed (and significantly different from PW lit culture), so probably PW corporate's more like Kirkland than Weil.

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Re: PW v. Weil v. K&E - Corporate (NY)

Postby mvp99 » Sat Aug 19, 2017 12:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
mvp99 wrote:Umm KE is right there with STB on PE except KE does more middle market.. is Weils PE strong? First time I read that


Is this a serious post?


love it anon



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