Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

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Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:24 pm

I'm fortunate enough to have offers from STB, Skadden, and Paul Weiss all in NYC. I'm interested in litigation and intend to clerk somewhere after graduation – SDNY or EDNY if I can land it, but we'll see. Anyway, my sense has been that PW – based on convos I've had with current associates and partners, PW alums in high places, and other knowledgeable people – has a slight edge in NY lit and will give me better training and more substantive experience early on. However, I have to say that at my PW callback, I didn't connect with the people super well. I found that the associates (especially the guys chosen by the firm to take me out to lunch) were pretty awkward, fairly boring, and seemed like they'd break in half if I asked them to go for drinks after work. On the other hand, I really connected with everyone I met at Skadden and found them to be fun, genuinely interesting people. Simpson fell somewhere in the middle of the two. FWIW, I did PW callback during OCI and Skadden and STB over the summer.

tldr; does it make sense to choose PW for the slight edge in litigation when I didn't feel the vibe with the people there? I know all 3 places will require me to spend lots and lots of time at the office – should I go with somewhere where I enjoy spending time with my future co-workers more? I'm leaning towards Skadden, but I just don't want to do something I'll regret down the line in terms of my career.

EDIT: I know PW has litigation generalists and Skadden specializes – at this point I don't have a strong preference one way or the other, there are pros and cons to both

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:36 pm

go with your gut. these are going to be the people you're spending the bulk of your life with over the next 2-3 (maybe more) years. would you rather spend that time with people you like, or people you don't like? it's unlikely that the work is going to be substantively different. congrats on the offers.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:07 pm

I agree whole-heartedly with the anon above, but also worth considering that these firms are in vastly different parts of midtown. Skadden will be moving to Hudson Yards, so the trip to get to the office from north jersey will be relatively easy (as opposed to getting across town to STB) should you want to avoid living in the city for a number of reasons (save money, space, etc.).

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:17 pm

^OP anon. This is true and I agree with you and will likely move out of the city in a few years if I'm still in NY at that time. STB is right next to grand central though so it'd be easy to get there from any suburb that has a railroad going into grand central (Western CT on the metro north, etc.) And skadden from NJ as you said. PW doesn't really have that luxury, it's in a nice spot in midtown but hard to get to

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:44 pm

I don't know, OP. Generally, I wouldn't describe PW as a bucket of fun. On the other hand, I have seen Ted Wells drinking and dancing in platform shoes (he hosts a pretty raucous BBQ every summer for the firm).

I understand the inclination to go with your gut, I just don't know how representative positive or awkward interview lunches are.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Bilb0Baggins » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:31 pm

Are you planning on doing second looks? I would recommend it. The firm you choose to spend your summer at will likely be where you work after graduation, so spending some more time getting additional data points is a worthwhile investment. These are both large firms with a variety of personalities. For me at least, after screeners and callbacks I'd met about 5 associates per firm. Second looks can potentially double that number, and let you know whether your first impressions were really representative of the firm. Both are great firms, but I think you're right that PW is better for litigation.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:43 pm

I don't think it will make any meaningful difference in your career opportunities which of these firms you work at. It's splitting hairs. They're all fantastic. I wouldn't sweat it.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:50 pm

Bilb0Baggins wrote:Are you planning on doing second looks? I would recommend it. The firm you choose to spend your summer at will likely be where you work after graduation, so spending some more time getting additional data points is a worthwhile investment. These are both large firms with a variety of personalities. For me at least, after screeners and callbacks I'd met about 5 associates per firm. Second looks can potentially double that number, and let you know whether your first impressions were really representative of the firm. Both are great firms, but I think you're right that PW is better for litigation.


I'm at a law school pretty far away from NY and start class soon, so I won't be able to go back for second looks but I'm planning on attending the local offer dinners. FWIW some of my close buddies also felt the same as me despite meeting different people.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:I don't think it will make any meaningful difference in your career opportunities which of these firms you work at. It's splitting hairs. They're all fantastic. I wouldn't sweat it.


Yeah, I'm sure that you're correct but hard to silence the little voice in back of my mind.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby IExistedOnceBefore » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Bilb0Baggins wrote:Are you planning on doing second looks? I would recommend it. The firm you choose to spend your summer at will likely be where you work after graduation, so spending some more time getting additional data points is a worthwhile investment. These are both large firms with a variety of personalities. For me at least, after screeners and callbacks I'd met about 5 associates per firm. Second looks can potentially double that number, and let you know whether your first impressions were really representative of the firm. Both are great firms, but I think you're right that PW is better for litigation.


I'm at a law school pretty far away from NY and start class soon, so I won't be able to go back for second looks but I'm planning on attending the local offer dinners. FWIW some of my close buddies also felt the same as me despite meeting different people.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:I don't think it will make any meaningful difference in your career opportunities which of these firms you work at. It's splitting hairs. They're all fantastic. I wouldn't sweat it.


Yeah, I'm sure that you're correct but hard to silence the little voice in back of my mind.



If your only reason for not going on second looks is so you don't miss class. Just go on second looks. Plenty of classmates will be missing class for second looks and callbacks.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm fortunate enough to have offers from STB, Skadden, and Paul Weiss all in NYC. I'm interested in litigation and intend to clerk somewhere after graduation – SDNY or EDNY if I can land it, but we'll see. Anyway, my sense has been that PW – based on convos I've had with current associates and partners, PW alums in high places, and other knowledgeable people – has a slight edge in NY lit and will give me better training and more substantive experience early on. However, I have to say that at my PW callback, I didn't connect with the people super well. I found that the associates (especially the guys chosen by the firm to take me out to lunch) were pretty awkward, fairly boring, and seemed like they'd break in half if I asked them to go for drinks after work. On the other hand, I really connected with everyone I met at Skadden and found them to be fun, genuinely interesting people. Simpson fell somewhere in the middle of the two. FWIW, I did PW callback during OCI and Skadden and STB over the summer.

tldr; does it make sense to choose PW for the slight edge in litigation when I didn't feel the vibe with the people there? I know all 3 places will require me to spend lots and lots of time at the office – should I go with somewhere where I enjoy spending time with my future co-workers more? I'm leaning towards Skadden, but I just don't want to do something I'll regret down the line in terms of my career.

EDIT: I know PW has litigation generalists and Skadden specializes – at this point I don't have a strong preference one way or the other, there are pros and cons to both


OP, I am going through the EXACT same thought process, except my non-PW firm isn't Skadden. FWIW, a) there are a LOT of attorneys at PW, and b) a lot of attorneys are out of the office the first few weeks of August, so your CB interviewers are likely more representative of whoever happened to be in the office rather than representative of the firm as a whole.

I completely share your feelings about the CB interviews, though. I have had only positive experience interacting with PW lawyers before this process, but I got some real weird vibes from my CB interviews (and in one case got a question that actually made my jaw drop by how odd/inappropriate it was -- and I'm usually not at all sensitive to that stuff).

That said, before this process, everyone I've met from PW seemed really chill and down to earth, and I've talked to several people who have exited the firm (into great jobs) who say they were really tight with their associate class and would have chosen PW again if they could do it over. So I'm going to follow the advice that others in this thread are giving, which is schedule a follow-up visit and talk to as many younger associates as possible. I know this doesn't answer your question, but I just wanted to say that I'm going through a really similar process right now.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:39 pm

PW and Skadden attract very different personality types. I agree STB is somewhere in the middle. If you're the Skadden "type" (and it sounds like you are), I'd strongly recommend going there (or STB, but doesn't seem like you have anything really drawing you to STB over Skadden). Any (slight) edge in PW's lit rep vs. Skadden is unlikely to be worth the (huge) discomfort of working 12+ hour days in close proximity with people who don't operate on the same wavelength.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:12 pm

A buddy of mine works at PW and gets lit on a regular basis if that assuages any of your concerns.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A buddy of mine works at PW and gets lit on a regular basis if that assuages any of your concerns.


Do you know me?

Seriously though, there are a good amount of drinkers here. Probably not as much as a fratty vibe, but ppl do party. It's also a huge office so lots of different types of ppl.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A buddy of mine works at PW and gets lit on a regular basis if that assuages any of your concerns.


(OP) It's not just about "getting lit," I'm not that one-dimensional, although I'm single and like to go out. I know plenty of people who go out and drink a bunch that I'm not interested in spending any time with because they're still weird dudes.

That doesn't really add anything to the thread, just saying. I've gotten some good opinions in here anyways, and I'm apt to go with my gut – it hasn't failed me yet.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Joscellin » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:19 pm

I second the poster that said do second looks - this is exactly what they're for. Don't sweat missing class.

Other than that, go with your gut and the feel. All three of those firms have "alums in high places" and have good prospects for you. It's important that you're comfortable wherever you go.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:00 am

OP, I was in a similar boat to you as a 1L. I really wanted to like PW but I thought everyone I interviewed with was kinda weird. But I had heard that PW had nice/cool people that I would get along with and ultimately convinced myself that the 4 people I interviewed with isn't necessarily representative of an 800 lawyer office, and ultimately chose PW over other comparable firms since it was the best for lit.

I haven't regretted it for a second. PW is actually chock full of associates who like to go out and drink. Not everyone of course, but that's just a product of a really huge NY office. You will find people here from all walks of life with many different personalities. On average though, the idea that Skadden is full of bros and PW is full of nerds is ridiculous. I do tend to think the corp dept. has more nerdy types than the lit type here, and that's probably not coincidence, since most of the "cool kids" choose litigation, since no one comes to PW for the corporate department (non-laterals who do corporate at PW only chose PW because it was the best firm they got an offer from, otherwise they would have chosen STB or whatever).

So fear not. If you like Skadden or STB for other reasons, then by all means do what you feel. But the people at PW are great, and it's a perfect firm for young single people who like to have a good time.

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Re: Is my thought process sensible here? [NY Lit]

Postby Lavitz » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:32 am

Definitely agree with the advice to skip class and do second looks at Skadden and PW. People do this all the time, and it's a big decision. Choosing between two firms based on the type of people at each is fine, but 5 attorneys out of a 700+ attorney office is a pretty small sample size. Personally, I accepted an offer without going on second looks and I sometimes wonder if I would have chosen a firm that was a better fit for me if I had just sucked it up and gone back to NYC for them.



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