Law Firms to Stay Away From Forum

[Anonymous User]

Andrews Kurth fired a first year without a review

Avoid

Details?

[FSK]

all of them

/thread

[Anonymous User]

Andrews Kurth fired a first year without a review

Avoid

Details?

Fired a first year seven months into it because of "business projections"

Also they don't pay market after your third year

[Anonymous User]

Sheppard Mullin downtown LA. Morale across practice groups is low (except maybe employment). The firm matched $180 last year, but after a long time. They made it clear they could not afford it by immediately cutting back on benefits of all kind from health care to coffee machines o retreats to practice group christmas parties being down scalled and no gifts. Other benefits of all kind have been cut back since then as well. Several associates were held back due to "not hitting hours" even though they hit hours, it was just a gate keeping year and they got hours by pro bono (not just client billable). Many associates are getting ready to get held back this year as the fiscal years comes to an end. Many are actively working with recruiters.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Sheppard Mullin downtown LA. Morale across practice groups is low (except maybe employment). The firm matched $180 last year, but after a long time. They made it clear they could not afford it by immediately cutting back on benefits of all kind from health care to coffee machines o retreats to practice group christmas parties being down scalled and no gifts. Other benefits of all kind have been cut back since then as well. Several associates were held back due to "not hitting hours" even though they hit hours, it was just a gate keeping year and they got hours by pro bono (not just client billable). Many associates are getting ready to get held back this year as the fiscal years comes to an end. Many are actively working with recruiters.

+1

Going forward, it may be useful to also specify office/PG considering how varied biglaw firms can be across the two.

[Anonymous User]

What firms have the best corporate groups in LA?

[KM2016]

What firms have the best corporate groups in LA?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=279692

[Neff]

I think the first couple of pages of this thread may be somewhat useful, but pretty soon we're just going to end up naming all of the Vault firms. All firms have certain practice groups and personalities that are the pits, and broad-based generalizations of entire firms are rarely meaningful. Thus we should be instead outing offending individuals by posting links to their firm profiles.

[Anonymous User]

What firms have the best corporate groups in LA?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=279692

I meant from a culture POV?

[ithrowds]

This is a crap thread, I could name something terrible about pretty much every Vault firm out there..

[PotatoSalad]

This is a crap thread, I could name something terrible about pretty much every Vault firm out there..

If you could, I'd find it pretty entertaining.

[A. Nony Mouse]

What firms have the best corporate groups in LA?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=279692

I meant from a culture POV?

That's a better thread in which to ask your question, though, since this one is supposed to be about terrible firms.

[Anonymous User]

Andrews Kurth fired a first year without a review

Avoid

Details?

Fired a first year seven months into it because of "business projections"

Also they don't pay market after your third year

This isn't that surprising honestly. AK does a lot of cap markets work. Cap markets work got really, really slow in Houston with the downturn in oil prices, picked back up a lot with the semi-recent price bump and has now fallen off a cliff with the more recent pull back. In Houston right now some practice areas like P/E focused M&A are absolutely booming and some areas like cap markets are extraordinarily slow.

[ithrowds]

This is a crap thread, I could name something terrible about pretty much every Vault firm out there..

If you could, I'd find it pretty entertaining.

Google "firm name" + above the law

[lolwat]

This is a crap thread, I could name something terrible about pretty much every Vault firm out there..

If you could, I'd find it pretty entertaining.

Google "firm name" + above the law

The problem is more the breadth of the thread topic. The idea behind it is fine. Biglaw generally sucks but there are different levels of suck and the firms / offices to stay away from are ones that suck the most.

[Anonymous User]

Cadwalader. The firm has been slowly but painfully falling apart the past few years. Their vintage shtick tricks people into choosing them over better firms each year, but don't fall for it.

110% this. They have a reputation for a reason. The same firm leaders, partners and tactics are still being used. It's toxic and they treat associates awfully. Do not fall for they have changed sales line. It's not true. The high associate attrition and reputation speaks volume about this place.

[gaddockteeg]

Andrews Kurth fired a first year without a review

Avoid

Details?

Fired a first year seven months into it because of "business projections"

Also they don't pay market after your third year

First year firing is pretty damning.

But re: salaries, I thought I read on ATL that they matched the full scale? http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/a-top-te ... s-offices/

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone mentioned Schiff Hardin? I have a '15 friend who is still unemployed after being laid off along with the majority of the entire 1st year class, 6 months into the job after the Riley Safer team split from Schiff.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone mentioned Schiff Hardin? I have a '15 friend who is still unemployed after being laid off along with the majority of the entire 1st year class, 6 months into the job after the Riley Safer team split from Schiff.

Pretty shitty thing when it happened but how much does it impact things going forward?

[h2go]

Andrews Kurth fired a first year without a review

Avoid

Details?

Fired a first year seven months into it because of "business projections"

Also they don't pay market after your third year

First year firing is pretty damning.

But re: salaries, I thought I read on ATL that they matched the full scale? http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/a-top-te ... s-offices/

Memo from ATL says "up to $315,000..." Full increase seems to be discretionary.

[Anonymous User]

It's not just the partners that are toxic at PH. It's also the associates that treat each other like shit. The worst part is that even when management is made aware of the issue, they actively ignore it. They do not care at all about associate happiness, despite what the Vault rankings say. Those surveys are heavily manipulated by the firm. To any summers that have yet to accept their offers: do 3L OCI, especially if you were offered a different practice group from the one that you said you were interested in. You've been cold offered and will be pushed out very quickly.

While I'm admittedly shamelessly defending PH, my biggest issue is that the above is an unsubstantiated generalization.

It may have been TOTALLY true w/r/t your personal experience, and even a few others that have posted along the same lines.

However I am saying, and the other poster above is saying, that they had/have the complete opposite experience .. which likely means that we are either (a) totally full of shit [which i personally think isn't the case but I have been full of shit before] or (b) proof that it is definitely group-specific stuff.

And highlighting this is absolutely worth doing, because there are many law students who treat this forum as gospel, and might make a choice solely on anonymous TLS banter (again, I appreciate how hypocritical im being by saying this), which could have been personally the right choice for them.

So, while I'm not doing so for fear of outing, I think it would be WAAAAAY more productive to say "the partners in xyz group in xyz office are TOXIC" than making a sweeping generalization about "partners and associates at" PH or Dechert or even any other firm for that matter.

But, I guess OP was looking for these type of generalizations or he/she wouldnt have asked, so I'm probably just being a hardo.

It's more that Dechert is laying off first years firm-wide throughout the firm, and betting that their financial situation will be improved in 2 years from now. Anyone choosing to go there has to decide if they want to take that bet. No job in big law is stable but Dechert is a huge risk for any risk and there's at least a decent chance they'll cut an incoming summer class if things continue the way they are.

i think most Dechert juniors/associates (and partners if they're being honest) would agree a midlevel position or really anything above a small firm sweatshop is a better choice. The unaware law students taking Dechert offers are essentially taking positions that may or may not be there when they start. It's more that if they don't have a summer class, news would trickle down to their clients and harm the business. I doubt there's a good faith effort to transition the summers into busy and seasoned attorneys. Law students should research Dechert before accepting, and not blindly assume "it's all big law".

[Anonymous User]

Trump's favorite (Paul Weiss). An associate broke down two years ago at a UMichigan recruiting dinner and started crying/ranting about how she never gets to go home.

[Anonymous User]

Trump's favorite (Paul Weiss). An associate broke down two years ago at a UMichigan recruiting dinner and started crying/ranting about how she never gets to go home.

Doesn't sound like that would be unique to Paul Weiss.

[Anonymous User]

Andrews Kurth - Houston.

Rumor is they no-offered half of their SA class this summer. I doubt its actually half, that would be insane, but it seems they did no offer at least a sizeable chunk if the rumors are true.

[Anonymous User]

Trump's favorite (Paul Weiss). An associate broke down two years ago at a UMichigan recruiting dinner and started crying/ranting about how she never gets to go home.

Huh? What makes you say this over JD or Morgan Lewis, who have/had represented him during his time as president?

Aside from that, do you have sense for the seniority of the associate? It's also concerning considering usually recruiting events are staffed by individuals who are particularly rosy about their firm. I was aware PW worked hard, but never going home? Also, why attend a recruiting event out of town if you want to spend more time at home...

I suppose this in particular threw me because I've heard people at PW generally like their work even though it's long hours. I'm considering PW, so this is of particular relevance I suppose.