How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
bloodorangedeer

New
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:37 am

How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby bloodorangedeer » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:18 pm

xxx
Last edited by bloodorangedeer on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

MonsterTRM

New
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby MonsterTRM » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:57 pm

Most places will give you a second shot. I wouldn't worry about it too much, just keep studying so you don't have to have that conversation.

jarofsoup

Gold
Posts: 2001
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby jarofsoup » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:03 pm

Dont freak yourself out with bull shit.

User avatar
Vincent Adultman

Silver
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 2:08 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby Vincent Adultman » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:39 pm

If you were at a V5 you would be fine. But a V10 will fire you if you fail.

User avatar
deepseapartners

Bronze
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby deepseapartners » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:28 pm

bloodorangedeer wrote:MBE scores are above Barbri's recommended goals

Then this is just an exercise in unjustified paranoia. You really shouldn't worry about having that conversation until after you get your scores back. Plenty of people pass the bar despite not studying at all until the 4th of July.

yost

Bronze
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby yost » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:00 pm

bloodorangedeer wrote:About me: Heading to V10 firm this fall, graduated top 2%, magna from T14 school.

I don't know if I will fail the bar, but I know it is a possibility. I was very sick for the first few weeks of June and fell behind on bar study. I've been working my ass off (MBE scores are above Barbri's recommended goals), but my essays are dogshit. I know that might be ok, I may pass, etc. etc., but as a doomsday mentality person, I wanted to ask the community for advice and insight on to what failing at a big law firm looks like, what your options are if you do fail, if you should warn your firm ahead of time (re: sickness), what you should say if you do fail it, and how it affects your future at the firm.


Dude, if you were you top 2% at a T14, you know how to write a damn essay. I bet 99/100 people with your profile pass the bar exam on the first attempt. You'll be fine.

BlueParrot

New
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:55 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby BlueParrot » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:28 pm

You are almost certainly going to pass. You could have taken all of June off and I would still be confident you'd pass.

If you don't pass, it very likely isn't the end of the world. At my NYC firm you are allowed to retake. They really have no reason to care if it takes you a little longer to get admitted (by having to retake once).

Anonymous User
Posts: 327317
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:07 pm

bloodorangedeer wrote:About me: Heading to V10 firm this fall, graduated top 2%, magna from T14 school.

I don't know if I will fail the bar, but I know it is a possibility. I was very sick for the first few weeks of June and fell behind on bar study. I've been working my ass off (MBE scores are above Barbri's recommended goals), but my essays are dogshit. I know that might be ok, I may pass, etc. etc., but as a doomsday mentality person, I wanted to ask the community for advice and insight on to what failing at a big law firm looks like, what your options are if you do fail, if you should warn your firm ahead of time (re: sickness), what you should say if you do fail it, and how it affects your future at the firm.


I had a pretty similar similar profile to you--run of the mill HYS grad headed to V10, and couldn't study for 3 weeks in June for personal reasons. I studied hard for the MBE (was testing above recommended Barbri goals by test day), but I did close to zero preparation for the essays. I literally did not look at any of the the essay-only subjects until two days before the exam, and I did only a couple practice essays total (less than 5) throughout the entire study process. My theory was that I needed to gain familiarity with the law, but that--based on my credentials--I probably was already a better essay writer than the vast majority of test-takers. For the essays, if you can just make an argument that's logically structured and reasonable, you can get a lot of points. I also figured that if I had a high MBE, it would balance out a low essay score.

I ended up scoring just as high on the essays as I did on the MBE--my total score was above 300.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327317
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
bloodorangedeer wrote:About me: Heading to V10 firm this fall, graduated top 2%, magna from T14 school.

I don't know if I will fail the bar, but I know it is a possibility. I was very sick for the first few weeks of June and fell behind on bar study. I've been working my ass off (MBE scores are above Barbri's recommended goals), but my essays are dogshit. I know that might be ok, I may pass, etc. etc., but as a doomsday mentality person, I wanted to ask the community for advice and insight on to what failing at a big law firm looks like, what your options are if you do fail, if you should warn your firm ahead of time (re: sickness), what you should say if you do fail it, and how it affects your future at the firm.


I had a pretty similar similar profile to you--run of the mill HYS grad headed to V10, and couldn't study for 3 weeks in June for personal reasons. I studied hard for the MBE (was testing above recommended Barbri goals by test day), but I did close to zero preparation for the essays. I literally did not look at any of the the essay-only subjects until two days before the exam, and I did only a couple practice essays total (less than 5) throughout the entire study process. My theory was that I needed to gain familiarity with the law, but that--based on my credentials--I probably was already a better essay writer than the vast majority of test-takers. For the essays, if you can just make an argument that's logically structured and reasonable, you can get a lot of points. I also figured that if I had a high MBE, it would balance out a low essay score.

I ended up scoring just as high on the essays as I did on the MBE--my total score was above 300.


Piggybacking because I'm in the same situation as OP too. Did you just make up rules in the essays when you didn't know the answer? And scored high?

My strategy right now is basically to score > 70% on the MBE and pray to god that's enough.

RaceJudicata

Gold
Posts: 1726
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:45 pm

Some serious first world (read: T14, top of class) problems ITT.

lavarman84

Platinum
Posts: 7726
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:01 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby lavarman84 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:47 pm

You haven't even taken the bar yet. Stop being neurotic.

bloodorangedeer

New
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:37 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby bloodorangedeer » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:44 am

xxx
Last edited by bloodorangedeer on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327317
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
bloodorangedeer wrote:About me: Heading to V10 firm this fall, graduated top 2%, magna from T14 school.

I don't know if I will fail the bar, but I know it is a possibility. I was very sick for the first few weeks of June and fell behind on bar study. I've been working my ass off (MBE scores are above Barbri's recommended goals), but my essays are dogshit. I know that might be ok, I may pass, etc. etc., but as a doomsday mentality person, I wanted to ask the community for advice and insight on to what failing at a big law firm looks like, what your options are if you do fail, if you should warn your firm ahead of time (re: sickness), what you should say if you do fail it, and how it affects your future at the firm.


I had a pretty similar similar profile to you--run of the mill HYS grad headed to V10, and couldn't study for 3 weeks in June for personal reasons. I studied hard for the MBE (was testing above recommended Barbri goals by test day), but I did close to zero preparation for the essays. I literally did not look at any of the the essay-only subjects until two days before the exam, and I did only a couple practice essays total (less than 5) throughout the entire study process. My theory was that I needed to gain familiarity with the law, but that--based on my credentials--I probably was already a better essay writer than the vast majority of test-takers. For the essays, if you can just make an argument that's logically structured and reasonable, you can get a lot of points. I also figured that if I had a high MBE, it would balance out a low essay score.

I ended up scoring just as high on the essays as I did on the MBE--my total score was above 300.


Piggybacking because I'm in the same situation as OP too. Did you just make up rules in the essays when you didn't know the answer? And scored high?

My strategy right now is basically to score > 70% on the MBE and pray to god that's enough.


Yes, I made up rules for essays if I didn't know the answer. I bet that secured transactions wouldn't show up on the essay, and particularly spent very little time on it. It showed up anyways and I 100% B.S.ed my way through the essay.

And yes, I scored high. I don't know the specifics of my essay score, because they only tell you if you don't pass. All I know is that I scored 150+ combined on essays. Keep in mind that MPT actually requires no preparation (maybe do 1 practice essay just to get minimal familiarity), even for responsible people--so if you are a top law student, you're probably going to blow that section out of the water anyways. That's 40% of your essay score right there (20% of your total score). Also keep in mind that, given how essays are graded, an MBE score in the mid-150s can basically secure an auto-pass--even if you totally totally get the answer wrong to an essay, a reasonable essay will probably get 40-50% of credit.

To be clear, I wouldn't recommend this strategy to the run of the mill test-taker. You have to be really honest with yourself about your test-taking ability. But if you scored ~175 on your LSAT, have top grades at a T14/mediocre grades at HYS, etc.--you can probably bet on yourself by just focusing on the MBE.

LurkerTurnedMember

Bronze
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:31 am

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby LurkerTurnedMember » Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:13 am

You'll be fine. A friend of mine took a week long vacation out of the country and was relaxed about studying during the rest of the time and he passed. Just set aside an extra hour at night and go through barbri's essays. Don't write them out, just read them, then very lightly outline them, flip to the answer and read it to see how much you would've gotten right. This lets you do a ton of essays in a short amount of time and that conditions you on how to write them on the exam and teaches you the law if you weren't familiar with it.

If you got less than passing scores on the barbri graded essay, don't worry. Only 1 out of 3 of those essays were passing for me (I even took extra time on some and got well below passing) and I still passed the California bar back when it was the hard 3-day test. Barbri likes to be extra harsh on the essays to scare you.

And if you fail, although I have heard of some biglaw firms firing people after they fail the bar the first time, you'll be fine since you're in a V10 and it's NYC.

yost

Bronze
Posts: 153
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:58 pm

Re: How do you explain failing the bar/what happens/what should you do (biglaw NYC)

Postby yost » Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:07 pm

LurkerTurnedMember wrote:If you got less than passing scores on the barbri graded essay, don't worry. Only 1 out of 3 of those essays were passing for me (I even took extra time on some and got well below passing) and I still passed the California bar back when it was the hard 3-day test. Barbri likes to be extra harsh on the essays to scare you.


Well this is really relieving to hear.



Return to “Legal Employment�

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.