3L Investment Banking Recruiting

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3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:01 pm

I recently received an email from Career Services listing banks looking to hire investment banking associates. As someone who is not completely sold on practicing law, I am considering pursuing such positions. Can anyone who has underwent this process comment on his/her experience? Additionally, does the fact that I am a K-JD hurt my candidacy?

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curepure

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby curepure » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:34 pm

KJD won't help. Most of lateral biglaw M&A/bankruptcy associates join IB as first year associates after practicing even 2-5 years.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:54 pm

curepure wrote:KJD won't help. Most of lateral biglaw M&A/bankruptcy associates join IB as first year associates after practicing even 2-5 years.

Do you have any idea how common is it for bankruptcy associates to lateral to investment banking?

Also, would 2-5 years in bankruptcy substitute for an undergrad finance or business degree for purposes of IB? For example, I have a science undergrad degree but will be doing bankruptcy.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby ruski » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:29 pm

bk associates don't go into IB. they go more into restructuring/distressed debt type roles (although this is still rare and not a typical exit option). most lawyers who exit to IB come from M&A. I've seen a couple from RE go into RE IB. but again this is all very rare, especially in today's markets where there are enough people with finance qualifications for these positions that they don't need to dip into the JD pool (something that wasn't really true pre 2007)

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:42 pm

OP here. Thank you for the info! While I appreciate the insight regarding the frequency of biglaw --> IB, I'm really more interested in the hiring process from LS --> IB. Thanks again!

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby ruski » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:30 pm

it will be near impossible to get this out of law school if you are k-JD. even with a finance degree it is very unlikely (good friend of mine who is k-JD went to a feeder undergrad business school and top 5 law school and couldn't get anything, not even an interview). you really need some work experience and preferably in finance. an option I've seen be successful is getting a joint JD/MBA then go directly into IB (but these kids also had work experience). you just are not qualified for an associate position without any work experience.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:24 pm

Former IBanker (M&A/PEG work) here who went to law school (T-20), doing BigLaw corporate law right now (1st year) and will likely make the move back to ibanking in a year or two. I went to IBanking straight out of UG although I didn't have a finance background, but rather POliSci. I just "talked" my way into the job by reaching out to the right people.

That said, it's doable in LS, but definitely not easy. Doing the resume dump won't help you out as most of their hires will come from feeder MBA programs or some spectacular law student that has better credentials than what you can ever achieve. maybe you can get something in compliance but doing actual deal work will take more a networking route than dropping your resume through their online portal. It would be more useful to go out and meet some people and get to know people professionally who can push you through the recruiting pipeline. Use both your Undergrad and grad/law school connections to reach out to alumni. Talk to them and inquire about the recruiting process, they might be able to help you out. On top of that, get some finance experience, know how to do some modeling, know how to read balance sheets/income statements/ etc.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Former IBanker (M&A/PEG work) here who went to law school (T-20), doing BigLaw corporate law right now (1st year) and will likely make the move back to ibanking in a year or two. I went to IBanking straight out of UG although I didn't have a finance background, but rather POliSci. I just "talked" my way into the job by reaching out to the right people.

That said, it's doable in LS, but definitely not easy. Doing the resume dump won't help you out as most of their hires will come from feeder MBA programs or some spectacular law student that has better credentials than what you can ever achieve. maybe you can get something in compliance but doing actual deal work will take more a networking route than dropping your resume through their online portal. It would be more useful to go out and meet some people and get to know people professionally who can push you through the recruiting pipeline. Use both your Undergrad and grad/law school connections to reach out to alumni. Talk to them and inquire about the recruiting process, they might be able to help you out. On top of that, get some finance experience, know how to do some modeling, know how to read balance sheets/income statements/ etc.


I think it should be said that experience, expectations, and processes are going to differ between the bulge bracket banks and the run of the mill middle market banks. .

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby sims1 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:04 pm

I disagree with the pessimism above. OP, if you go to a top school and have good grades you have a great shot at getting an interview with BB's (especially if you take the time to network). If you don't have a background in finance you have the extra hurdle of having to prep more/demonstrate interest, but there are lots of people (like the anon above) that go into banking with no work experience background in finance. Probably helpful to take business school classes if your school allows it. FWIW I think the consulting path may be slightly easier since they hire more advanced degrees (non-MBA's), but the banks recruit at law schools because they are serious about hiring JD's.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:28 pm

OP here. Thank you all for the input. To provide some context, I currently attend CCN and the banks who are recruiting from our school are either BB or EB. I understand that the likelihood of receiving an offer are borderline impossible, but is there anything I can do to improve my chances? In addition to networking like a madman, would courses like Breaking Into Wall Street help in any way? Thanks again for the comments everyone.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby zhenders » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:31 pm

OP, if at Chicago, I may be able to connect you with some friends who went/are going straight to IB right out of school; pm me.

Edit: anyone above who suggests grades are the major factor probably hasn't spent much time researching banking hiring. School name, sure--but grades, no.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby SmokeytheBear » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:56 pm

zhenders wrote:OP, if at Chicago, I may be able to connect you with some friends who went/are going straight to IB right out of school; pm me.

Edit: anyone above who suggests grades are the major factor probably hasn't spent much time researching banking hiring. School name, sure--but grades, no.


Very correct.

I'd also encourage you to figure out what i-banking interviews are like for lawyers as opposed to non-lawyers. While there are a bazillion guides out there that give you an idea of the kind of questions that you will be asked during an i-banking interview (from discussing different valuation techniques to giving you hypotheticals to the stupid "how many ping pong balls fit in a 747", I wonder if they might ask you different questions if you are coming with a JD. I don't know for certain, but I just have to believe that they might ask you different questions.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby sims1 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:16 pm

zhenders wrote:OP, if at Chicago, I may be able to connect you with some friends who went/are going straight to IB right out of school; pm me.

Edit: anyone above who suggests grades are the major factor probably hasn't spent much time researching banking hiring. School name, sure--but grades, no.


You really don't think banks look at your transcript? Everyone I know that got a banking offer had well above average grades, although maybe this is them caring about where you worked over 2L (where grades obviously matter a lot). They definitely matter less than for law firm recruiting, but when they are screening students to interview I can't imagine they are irrelevant.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby existentialcrisis » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Former IBanker (M&A/PEG work) here who went to law school (T-20), doing BigLaw corporate law right now (1st year) and will likely make the move back to ibanking in a year or two. I went to IBanking straight out of UG although I didn't have a finance background, but rather POliSci. I just "talked" my way into the job by reaching out to the right people.

That said, it's doable in LS, but definitely not easy. Doing the resume dump won't help you out as most of their hires will come from feeder MBA programs or some spectacular law student that has better credentials than what you can ever achieve. maybe you can get something in compliance but doing actual deal work will take more a networking route than dropping your resume through their online portal. It would be more useful to go out and meet some people and get to know people professionally who can push you through the recruiting pipeline. Use both your Undergrad and grad/law school connections to reach out to alumni. Talk to them and inquire about the recruiting process, they might be able to help you out. On top of that, get some finance experience, know how to do some modeling, know how to read balance sheets/income statements/ etc.


Not particularly on topic. But can you explain what motivated you to try to go IB--> corporate law --> IB? All my friends in banking have hated it and seen it purely as a means to buy side exit opps. I'm sure some people like the job, but then why the pit stop in corporate law?

Or did you think you'd like the legal side better and decide diferently after actually trying it?

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:56 am

I think there is some confusion in this thread. getting into ibanking with no finance background or work experience is no problem out of UG when you are applying for an analyst. however, getting in at the associate level with no work experience or finance background is next to impossible

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think there is some confusion in this thread. getting into ibanking with no finance background or work experience is no problem out of UG when you are applying for an analyst. however, getting in at the associate level with no work experience or finance background is next to impossible


Side note, as a K-JD, going into an analyst role isn't all that bad compared to going in as an associate especially since your PE exit options are much better as an analyst.

I know that Houlihan restructuring was perfectly willing to interview law students​.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:24 am

existentialcrisis wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Former IBanker (M&A/PEG work) here who went to law school (T-20), doing BigLaw corporate law right now (1st year) and will likely make the move back to ibanking in a year or two. I went to IBanking straight out of UG although I didn't have a finance background, but rather POliSci. I just "talked" my way into the job by reaching out to the right people.

That said, it's doable in LS, but definitely not easy. Doing the resume dump won't help you out as most of their hires will come from feeder MBA programs or some spectacular law student that has better credentials than what you can ever achieve. maybe you can get something in compliance but doing actual deal work will take more a networking route than dropping your resume through their online portal. It would be more useful to go out and meet some people and get to know people professionally who can push you through the recruiting pipeline. Use both your Undergrad and grad/law school connections to reach out to alumni. Talk to them and inquire about the recruiting process, they might be able to help you out. On top of that, get some finance experience, know how to do some modeling, know how to read balance sheets/income statements/ etc.


Not particularly on topic. But can you explain what motivated you to try to go IB--> corporate law --> IB? All my friends in banking have hated it and seen it purely as a means to buy side exit opps. I'm sure some people like the job, but then why the pit stop in corporate law?

Or did you think you'd like the legal side better and decide diferently after actually trying it?



Anon you're quoting. I actually liked the work, I was doing. I enjoyed the travel and enjoyed the numbers work but just wanted to do something different for a little while. Also, interestingly enough, many of the people I was interacting with, (M&A guys, PEGs, strategic buyers, etc) all had law degrees and had practiced then went to business or never practiced and went straight to PEG/Corporate work. So I was more intrigued than anything else. Aside from that, I was one of those kids who wanted to go to LS and get that law degree for a while, so it was kinda one of those "check the box" things I was looking to do. Expensive, but I don't necessarily regret it.

My desire to possibly move back to iBanking isn't b/c I do or don't like the work, it's more that I am not 100% sold on doing legal-type work for the rest of my life. I really enjoyed the iBanking stuff and there are times I enjoy what I'm doing now, and other times when I find it boring as fuck. So, maybe once I'm more than 8 months into the legal profession I'll have a different point of view. But as of right now I'm willing to make a shift if a job is more interesting/exciting/fun.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:I think there is some confusion in this thread. getting into ibanking with no finance background or work experience is no problem out of UG when you are applying for an analyst. however, getting in at the associate level with no work experience or finance background is next to impossible


Anon former IBanker from above.

This is true. As you said, it's next to impossible but totally doable, it's just going to take a lot more work on behalf of that person interesting in making the push. Like everything in these types of professions (law, consulting, iBanking), it's a large part about who you know. So if you can network the shit out of it, use friends of parents/friends/acquaintances and talk to the right people, it totally is doable. But you have a better chance at being struck by lightning while shitting on a golden toilet than going in blind and doing nothing other than a resume dump.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3L Investment Banking Recruiting

Postby MaxMcMann » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I think there is some confusion in this thread. getting into ibanking with no finance background or work experience is no problem out of UG when you are applying for an analyst. however, getting in at the associate level with no work experience or finance background is next to impossible


Anon former IBanker from above.

This is true. As you said, it's next to impossible but totally doable, it's just going to take a lot more work on behalf of that person interesting in making the push. Like everything in these types of professions (law, consulting, iBanking), it's a large part about who you know. So if you can network the shit out of it, use friends of parents/friends/acquaintances and talk to the right people, it totally is doable. But you have a better chance at being struck by lightning while shitting on a golden toilette than going in blind and doing nothing other than a resume dump.


Since you've done both, what is your view of how the hours work? The common view is that lawyers work relatively consistent long hours throughout their career (peaking as senior associates/junior partners) whereas bankers start out way worse as analysts but the hours get better at each rank up to the point that MDs work significantly less than partners.



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