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3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:46 am
by Anonymous User
I figure OCI isn't the normal route for current 2L SA's that are looking to interview with other firms - do people know when we should start Mass Mailing?
Also, do the median law firm GPA figures given by career services still apply to rising 3Ls? I figure firms might look at rising 3L grades a bit differently b/c of post-1L grade inflation at certain schools.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:44 am
by Anonymous User
Also interested in 3L OCI. When should we start mass mailing?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:51 am
by DJM
Also interested in timing this

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:21 pm
by Anonymous User
Bump

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:25 pm
by Wild Card
Timely.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:29 pm
by cron1834
I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:39 pm
by Anonymous User
cron1834 wrote:I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02


What if we don't get out offers until the summer is over?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:18 pm
by cron1834
Anonymous User wrote:
cron1834 wrote:I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02


What if we don't get out offers until the summer is over?

If you do a cover letter, write that you anticipate receiving an offer, but as a policy offers aren't made until such and such time. Not much else you can do. Other firms probably know this anyway. I think it's pretty unusual for firms to offer before the last week of the summer program. So, it's not like this is going to be held against you... but you may have to wait to get a callback. That's the way it worked for me. Maybe it's been different for others.

I should edit to add that I ended up staying with my firm. Grass isn't always greener.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:25 pm
by Anonymous User
cron1834 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
cron1834 wrote:I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02


What if we don't get out offers until the summer is over?

If you do a cover letter, write that you anticipate receiving an offer, but as a policy offers aren't made until such and such time. Not much else you can do. Other firms probably know this anyway. I think it's pretty unusual for firms to offer before the last week of the summer program. So, it's not like this is going to be held against you... but you may have to wait to get a callback. That's the way it worked for me. Maybe it's been different for others.

I should edit to add that I ended up staying with my firm. Grass isn't always greener.


Yeah but I don't know if I can given that my firm has hinted one of us will not get an offer. Traditionally 100% offer rate, but they have dropped some hints given the need at the office (major market but not NYC) that one of us will be left out. It probably seems like a bad idea to assume something that isn't guaranteed anymore. Sucks.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:06 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:I figure OCI isn't the normal route for current 2L SA's that are looking to interview with other firms - do people know when we should start Mass Mailing?
Also, do the median law firm GPA figures given by career services still apply to rising 3Ls? I figure firms might look at rising 3L grades a bit differently b/c of post-1L grade inflation at certain schools.


An interesting situation would be where your grades went down after 1L. I really don't know how firms would weigh grades in that situation.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:46 pm
by hxcvault
cron1834 wrote:I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02


Do some firms give 3Ls a screener first or do you go straight to the callback stage? Also, did you apply to firms which rejected you in 2L and if so, did any of them still offer you a callback?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:56 pm
by cron1834
I heard back from 4 firms, out of about 8 I applied to. 3 of the 4 were out of market. One of those three was straight to CB, the other two did phone screeners. The in-market firm did an in-person screener.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:09 pm
by Anonymous User
Trading up can be awkward sometimes because some firms will hit up your 2L firm and ask if you got an offer.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:35 pm
by Anonymous User
^^ Seconded. I would be wary of applying to new firms before you get an official offer from your current firm. Firms are probably not looking for 3Ls until August anyway, when they figure out who in their class is accepting.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:24 pm
by Anonymous User
3L OCI was a total bloodbath last year for people with median grades (at least at my T10). Know you're facing an uphill battle unless you're in the top quarter of your class

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:16 pm
by OutCold
I did this successfully years ago. Because I'm lazy, here's a link to one of the old posts. Dated, but probably still applicable. viewtopic.php?f=23&t=223691&p=7424980#p7424980

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:41 pm
by Anonymous User
I did this same thing in August/September of last year. I personally found it better to wait until right after an offer from my 2L summer job was in hand. This is because I think I came off as a much stronger candidate and less desperate after officially receiving an offer. Also, I thought it would be extremely awkward if the firms I was applying to reached out to my old firm before it had officially extended me an offer. And as others have mentioned, many firms don't know until August or later which summers won't be coming back.

Immediately after I had that offer, I started applying. I only applied to two firms, both of which had postings on my school's career site for 3Ls (not through formal OCI) and both of which I interviewed with and was rejected from as a rising 2L. Both were in the same market as my summer firm as well. I tried to convey good, targeted reasons for wanting to change firms and to not seem like I was applying everywhere that was hiring. I had remote screeners and got callbacks at both and accepted one before I reached the deadline to accept/reject my summer offer.

I agree that 3L OCI was not great last year and I wouldn't totally rely on it if you can help it. A lot of it was right place/right time for me based on what I was interested in. Many other people struggled a bit more with it at my T10 (though it eventually worked out for quite a few).

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:45 pm
by Anonymous User
How do you guys who pulled it off feel about situations where someone's grade dropped from 1L to 2L instead of rising? Assuming offer was received at the end of summer from 2L SA firm.

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:03 pm
by Anonymous User
A somewhat related question to the above. How do firms weigh 2L grades? For transfer students into T14, do the grades at the new school matter more?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:32 pm
by Anonymous User
Will firms actually contact your 2L SA firm asking offer situation? Shouldn't they understand that offers are not extended until the end of the summer

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:41 pm
by cron1834
Anonymous User wrote:How do you guys who pulled it off feel about situations where someone's grade dropped from 1L to 2L instead of rising? Assuming offer was received at the end of summer from 2L SA firm.

My grades didn't change at all from 1L through 2L. Pretty much just maintained. My classmates mostly improved, b/c clinics/seminars/etc., so I fell relative to everyone else. How bad of a drop are we talking? And were they good or mediocre to start with?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 1:19 am
by Anonymous User
Unrelated: is there a way to prevent firms from ignoring your email without even opening your cover letter or resume? Is it possible to list your one or two most important credentials in the email itself?

Re: 3L "Trading Up" Question

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:17 am
by Anonymous User
cron1834 wrote:I applied in early July, and got some callbacks in August. I got the sense that a lot of the firms were waiting to see what their summer class yield was before they looked at 3Ls (except for the places like Quinn that target 3Ls). Still, I see no reason to apply late just because of that. Send something out in two weeks or so, right after the 4th.

Just my $.02


Any luck with 3L OCI so far or are firms waiting to see their summer yield as usual?