On track to bill under 600 hours

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:48 am

ClubberLang wrote:Serious question, what do you do all day? Can you walk us through a standard day?


In the morning I take my sweet time getting coffee, check the news, catch up on sports, take a shit, dick around on the internet.

I actually don't take long lunches, so not much time there.

Afternoons are mostly dicking around on the internet, talking to associates, and maybe doing a little work. Last couple weeks have been a couple hours a day of work, with a random 8 hour billable day thrown in.

I try to come early and stay late even if I have no work for appearances sake. It's really boring tbh.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
LurkerTurnedMember wrote:Start looking for another job. Now. You should have free time since you're slow (although don't stop looking for work at your firm if there is still some). Like people said, either your firm or group is slow or they're not giving you work because of your reputation. Either way, you seem like the most likely to go when the inevitable firing comes around. From what I've heard from friends who've been let go, they always start with drying up your work. You don't want to waste this opportunity to set yourself for a graceful transition as opposed to long-term unemployment. If at the end they don't fire you, then you're good either way.


Can't dry up what was never there :lol:

The one small bright side is I've seen one associate fired for work product and the work didn't dry up - it straight up stopped and they were pulled off all active matters. At least I'm still getting work (albeit more of a trickle). But I see your point. I'm in no particular hurry to be unemployed.


Yeah, for a bunch of reasons I wouldn't rely on the one associate story where his work completely dried up. Again, I was in a very similar situation as you, I thought there was either a conspiracy to dry me up and kick me out or some other weird scenario. I dillydallied, got reassured by the adage of "first years never get fired" and then soon enough I got the X and barely made it to my next destination before time off website ran out. Look noW!

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
LurkerTurnedMember wrote:Start looking for another job. Now. You should have free time since you're slow (although don't stop looking for work at your firm if there is still some). Like people said, either your firm or group is slow or they're not giving you work because of your reputation. Either way, you seem like the most likely to go when the inevitable firing comes around. From what I've heard from friends who've been let go, they always start with drying up your work. You don't want to waste this opportunity to set yourself for a graceful transition as opposed to long-term unemployment. If at the end they don't fire you, then you're good either way.


Can't dry up what was never there :lol:

The one small bright side is I've seen one associate fired for work product and the work didn't dry up - it straight up stopped and they were pulled off all active matters. At least I'm still getting work (albeit more of a trickle). But I see your point. I'm in no particular hurry to be unemployed.


Yeah, for a bunch of reasons I wouldn't rely on the one associate story where his work completely dried up. Again, I was in a very similar situation as you, I thought there was either a conspiracy to dry me up and kick me out or some other weird scenario. I dillydallied, got reassured by the adage of "first years never get fired" and then soon enough I got the X and barely made it to my next destination before time off website ran out. Look noW!


Did you use a recruiter? I don't have a lot of connections in this city due to where I went to school and where my friends ended up practicing. I'll try to ask around with people I know but I've heard mixed things about recruiters.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:26 pm

OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:


Dude go get some work. wtf man do you have no survival instinct at all?!

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landshoes

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby landshoes » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:22 pm

^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:24 pm

landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I get the hint and I'll probably do it while I look - but I absolutely do not want for my career to go in that direction and don't want my deal sheet to fill up with those deals. Plus, the people are objectively the worst in the group. Shitty all around.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Bach-City » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:26 pm

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Last edited by Bach-City on Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I get the hint and I'll probably do it while I look - but I absolutely do not want for my career to go in that direction and don't want my deal sheet to fill up with those deals. Plus, the people are objectively the worst in the group. Shitty all around.


Yeah, I get it. Definitely keep looking and good luck.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:55 pm

As a non law firmer associate government attorney here, what do you guys mean by poor performance? Like poor research memos or poor editing skills? I've kinda forgotten what folks do in law firms...

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby notgreat » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:12 pm

landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.

Dude calm the fuck down. He took the hint and he doesn't look terrible. You sound like a dense house slave right now.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby foregetaboutdre » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:


go into a different group. seriously, do you have options? lot of prac areas are more fun (at least IMHO) than corp anways. although a 600 hr a year corp gig would be a dream job (minus the sitting in the office all day w/ nothing to do). i'd completely forget/ditch corp. talk to the person you talked to and say you want to immediately switch groups so you can add value to the firm.

if you want your job id almost start being a pest and asking anyone for work tbh.

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Vincent Adultman

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Vincent Adultman » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:31 pm

landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I have already seen three first years lateral to other firms. Why couldn't the OP lateral, in your estimation?

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:32 pm

foregetaboutdre wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:


go into a different group. seriously, do you have options? lot of prac areas are more fun (at least IMHO) than corp anways. although a 600 hr a year corp gig would be a dream job (minus the sitting in the office all day w/ nothing to do). i'd completely forget/ditch corp. talk to the person you talked to and say you want to immediately switch groups so you can add value to the firm.

if you want your job id almost start being a pest and asking anyone for work tbh.


True, it's been a pretty sweet year. Without giving too much detail, the group I was offered does work I did for several years before law school and absolutely despise - no way I want my career to go that route and their exit ops are limited to shit I also know I don't want to do. But for now it's a decent stop gap.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:23 am

I have seen people in very similar situations before. Consider yourself to be fired now and your time now to be bonus website time. The firm may not be busy, but even then you would be at 1200. My friends thankfully saw the writing in your situation and left.

There are plenty of lateral opportunities for big firms and corporate is generally busy elsewhere.

You need to start your search today. If you get fired as a first year, it will be difficult to find any job even in midlaw. You need to consider this firm a lost cause and focus all your efforts on moving on right now. If you do, I'm pretty confident you can land something.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:38 am

Im shocked and disturbed by the # of first years I've seen get told already that they may want to consider other firms. It runs completely counter to the mantra we were told in law school and OCI that you had about two years to try things & dick around before it would matter

People make very quick impressions of you in this work environment.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:03 am

Quick anecdote to echo the above. I was a mid level working for one of the top 3 partners at my law firm. I gave a simple assignment to first year. Take contract from deal x and turn it for deal y. Was literally a two page contract. All she had to do was fill in blanks of specific deal.

The associate sent her work directly to the partner and it was shit. She forgot an extremely obvious change (change state x to state y).

The partner called me into her office, told me the girls work was total shit, and we would never use her again. Word spread like wildfire from this and girl's name was mud. Partner never even talked to the girl about the contract and just had me fix it.

Management gave the talk about low hours and she eventually lateralled out as nobody would use her. The bottom line is if you are good, you will get work, and there's a reason you are being shut out. Do not underestimate bad first impressions.

Law firms don't fire anyone directly or talk about performance issues because lawyers are petrified of this confrontation. You get starved, you get the talk, you continue getting starved and you hopefully bounce before it ends. The cycle has clearly started with op and you gotta leave asap when that happens.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:45 am

Martin Brody wrote:
landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I have already seen three first years lateral to other firms. Why couldn't the OP lateral, in your estimation?


It's not a 1st year thing, it's a market thing. If there's not that much work in that group, seems like a good chance that the market is going to be soft for that work in general, not just at his firm. That means lots of attorneys looking to leave their (slow) practices or simply being laid off. Of course, his firm might just suck at that particular type of work, but limiting yourself to one specific group that might be a tough market is not a great risk to take if you're looking for a job ASAP and don't have any skills or experience with which to differentiate yourself from other candidates.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Martin Brody wrote:
landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I have already seen three first years lateral to other firms. Why couldn't the OP lateral, in your estimation?


It's not a 1st year thing, it's a market thing. If there's not that much work in that group, seems like a good chance that the market is going to be soft for that work in general, not just at his firm. That means lots of attorneys looking to leave their (slow) practices or simply being laid off. Of course, his firm might just suck at that particular type of work, but limiting yourself to one specific group that might be a tough market is not a great risk to take if you're looking for a job ASAP and don't have any skills or experience with which to differentiate yourself from other candidates.


Biglaw corp is on fire and everyone at my firm is over 2000 by a mile. We have hired first year laterals with no meaningful experience. This is a hot market and this persons firm is just sucking. Economy is doing amazing for biglaw right now. Not sure why you are saying otherwise.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Vincent Adultman » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Martin Brody wrote:
landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I have already seen three first years lateral to other firms. Why couldn't the OP lateral, in your estimation?


It's not a 1st year thing, it's a market thing. If there's not that much work in that group, seems like a good chance that the market is going to be soft for that work in general, not just at his firm. That means lots of attorneys looking to leave their (slow) practices or simply being laid off. Of course, his firm might just suck at that particular type of work, but limiting yourself to one specific group that might be a tough market is not a great risk to take if you're looking for a job ASAP and don't have any skills or experience with which to differentiate yourself from other candidates.


Wtf are you talking about. This is laughably wrong.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:18 am

Fair enough. I should note that I said OPs firm could simply suck at getting work in a decent market, and his firm being slow might not be a reflection of the LA corporate market. Happy to hear that's the case, and OP, good luck with your search.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Martin Brody wrote:
landshoes wrote:^^^accidental anon, that was me. If your practice group has been that slow, what makes you think other firms in LA will be hiring a barely-experienced first year for similar work? That meeting was a pretty serious hint and you not taking the hint looks pretty terrible.


I have already seen three first years lateral to other firms. Why couldn't the OP lateral, in your estimation?


It's not a 1st year thing, it's a market thing. If there's not that much work in that group, seems like a good chance that the market is going to be soft for that work in general, not just at his firm. That means lots of attorneys looking to leave their (slow) practices or simply being laid off. Of course, his firm might just suck at that particular type of work, but limiting yourself to one specific group that might be a tough market is not a great risk to take if you're looking for a job ASAP and don't have any skills or experience with which to differentiate yourself from other candidates.


Biglaw corp is on fire and everyone at my firm is over 2000 by a mile. We have hired first year laterals with no meaningful experience. This is a hot market and this persons firm is just sucking. Economy is doing amazing for biglaw right now. Not sure why you are saying otherwise.


Eh, I don't think corporate market in LA is hot right now, at least from my experience (in fact, it was painfully slow to begin the year at least at my firm). This differs from office to office and to generalize that everything is sunshine and rainbows is not correct. That said.... billing 600 hours a year is effed up... whether it's your slow group or you, I would at least start putting out feelers to recruiters, though I think it's pretty difficult to lateral as a first year ....... I haven't seen it much unless you change practices/geography.

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby umichman » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:


go into a different group. seriously, do you have options? lot of prac areas are more fun (at least IMHO) than corp anways. although a 600 hr a year corp gig would be a dream job (minus the sitting in the office all day w/ nothing to do). i'd completely forget/ditch corp. talk to the person you talked to and say you want to immediately switch groups so you can add value to the firm.

if you want your job id almost start being a pest and asking anyone for work tbh.


True, it's been a pretty sweet year. Without giving too much detail, the group I was offered does work I did for several years before law school and absolutely despise - no way I want my career to go that route and their exit ops are limited to shit I also know I don't want to do. But for now it's a decent stop gap.


Op, what's the other group? How unrelated to corp is it

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:17 pm

umichman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
foregetaboutdre wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP here - got a talk about my hours and heavy insinuations I may be better off in another group. But I also asked around and corporate is crazy slow right now - 4th years are billing 80-120/mo. I think they're trying to dump me off on a busier group because they aren't generating work but that group does work I absolutely don't want to do and notoriously shitty. I'm looking...on that note, anyone know a good L.A. recruiter or firms hiring :mrgreen:


go into a different group. seriously, do you have options? lot of prac areas are more fun (at least IMHO) than corp anways. although a 600 hr a year corp gig would be a dream job (minus the sitting in the office all day w/ nothing to do). i'd completely forget/ditch corp. talk to the person you talked to and say you want to immediately switch groups so you can add value to the firm.

if you want your job id almost start being a pest and asking anyone for work tbh.


True, it's been a pretty sweet year. Without giving too much detail, the group I was offered does work I did for several years before law school and absolutely despise - no way I want my career to go that route and their exit ops are limited to shit I also know I don't want to do. But for now it's a decent stop gap.


Op, what's the other group? How unrelated to corp is it


Don't want to say too much and out myself. It's transactional but fairly different - it's very specialized and niche.

Also, I have a couple first year corp friends that lateraled in LA, but generally it's not too hot. Unfortunately, my SO isn't open to moving otherwise I'd be all over the SF/Denver/Houston jobs which are the most common right now. The saving grace is I'll probably have until the end of the year based on the way this firm works. I know I can't bank on it, but apparently it's pretty dry out there so I'm not optimistic but I'll start grinding.

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sambeber

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Re: On track to bill under 600 hours

Postby sambeber » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:25 pm

OP, pm me



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