SA Fired from Skadden

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:33 pm

Are the potential benefits *really* that substantial, though? (I also don't think this kind of lie is that undetectable/easy to pull off, if someone really is just plain lying.)

delusional

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby delusional » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:34 pm

PvblivsScipio wrote:You guys really don't know anyone who lied or deliberately made their sexuality vague by using certain terms in hopes of getting a diversity bump? I know some jackasses that openly bragged about it.

I guess it is easy enough to deliberately create a false impression of your sexuality during the recruiting process. I find it difficult to envision how you would go about "making your sexuality vague" though.

Whoops, accidental anon - Username is delusional.

ernie

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby ernie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:40 pm

Also I really don't think it's all that easy. At both firms I summered at, I included my affiliations with LGBT organizations on my resume during recruiting. And at both firms (a) the resume I submitted was forwarded to attorneys I worked with at the firm, (b) I was asked to join formal/informal LGBT affinity groups, and (c) I received invites to coffee/lunch with LGBT partners and associates, and invites to LGBT events. I really didn't have to come out to people at the firm; it was common knowledge. So you'd need to be in for the long haul if you wanted to lie.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby ernie » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:42 pm

In fact, come to think of it during callbacks I had quite a few interviews with gay partners/associates, enough that I didn't think it was a mere coincidence. And during those interviews I certainly received questions about my involvement in the LGBT organizations that I had listed on my resume.

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shelob

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby shelob » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:59 pm

most thrilling revelation of this thread:

brut lives

Nebby

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby Nebby » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:04 pm

shelob wrote:most thrilling revelation of this thread:

brut lives

o shit

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UBETutoring

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby UBETutoring » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:56 pm

This hasn't been mentioned, but if the account is accurate, then this summer will have a major C&F hurdle. People get overly hung up on criminal history and mental illness without recognizing the main reason this stuff matters is the risk it carries over into practice. This is an example of one's personal issues having a direct and malevolent affect on their practice and on other attorneys.

If this is known, then the SA needs to disclose it (they should have anyway, but I doubt Skadden would have disclosed this info). As a supplement and revision/addendum of my earlier posts, the reason SA's nature is relevant is not only because it will impact their ability to land a new job but also because it will impact their ability to sit for the bar exam and/or be licensed.

People posting on this issue and about the SA's identity should be aware of the full scope of the impact this has already had and will have on OP's future. Only those with first hand knowledge are positioned to answer whether it's justified. Hopefully, they already analyzed this and weren't posting because it sounds TLS worthy. This is a much bigger hiccup than 2 girls making out at an SA event or playfully slapping a coworker, which aren't smart but aren't potentially career ending.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby Rubbishdump » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:59 pm

^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?

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Yugihoe

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby Yugihoe » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:02 pm

He should probably switch careers at this point and try to go into consulting or banking with the degre.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?


The conventional wisdom is that anything and everything you do or do not do during law school is of greater import for C&F reasons because you are in finishing school and are on notice of the stakes.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby Rubbishdump » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:22 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?


The conventional wisdom is that anything and everything you do or do not do during law school is of greater import for C&F reasons because you are in finishing school and are on notice of the stakes.

Kid's a fool, god damn. Hope it isn't a false rumor, though. If the poor kid got fired for shitty performance or something and someone started this rumor that'd be awful.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby ghostoftraynor » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:22 pm

Your behavior as a lawyer matters significantly less. In addition to the standards being seemingly lower, you would already have work experience. So despite any misgivings, you are more employable than a law student who never even got to start their first gig.

I don't think C&F is the biggest worry here anyways. It seems pretty unthinkable this person is going to manage big law, and it's probably a better idea to quit the law entirely and save that last year of tuition while he/she still can.

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SmokeytheBear

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby SmokeytheBear » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?


The conventional wisdom is that anything and everything you do or do not do during law school is of greater import for C&F reasons because you are in finishing school and are on notice of the stakes.

Kid's a fool, god damn. Hope it isn't a false rumor, though. If the poor kid got fired for shitty performance or something and someone started this rumor that'd be awful.


Why is there so much useless anon use in this thread?

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:00 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?


The conventional wisdom is that anything and everything you do or do not do during law school is of greater import for C&F reasons because you are in finishing school and are on notice of the stakes.

Kid's a fool, god damn. Hope it isn't a false rumor, though. If the poor kid got fired for shitty performance or something and someone started this rumor that'd be awful.


Why is there so much useless anon use in this thread?


Not anymore. Zero tolerance policy for this thread for anyone whose not claiming to be the SA in question starting with my last warning about it.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:18 pm

Rubbishdump wrote:
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:^I imagine it matters even more because it occurred while he was in law school, and at a legal job, no?


The conventional wisdom is that anything and everything you do or do not do during law school is of greater import for C&F reasons because you are in finishing school and are on notice of the stakes.

Kid's a fool, god damn. Hope it isn't a false rumor, though. If the poor kid got fired for shitty performance or something and someone started this rumor that'd be awful.


You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

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Mad Hatter

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby Mad Hatter » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:33 pm

Damn. Even assuming the guy is a racist/verbal sexual harasser, I'm not sure he deserves to see his story on the front page of ATL/TLS/whatever-other-legal-rags-decide-to-cover-this-story and have his entire law school class--if not all of Northwestern given how quickly word spreads--talking behind his back about what a bigot and perv he is as a 3L (if he even decides not to drop out, which I certainly would rather than endure the finger-pointing and poor legal job prospects going forward). I mean he definitely deserves to be fired and blackballed, but plenty of people screw up in one way or another and get fired without having their story trumpeted on the front page of sites/publications that all their friends read. Especially true given no one really even knows what happened or why he was given the boot (and probably never will) and it's all just recycled hearsay at this point. Never thought I would feel this much sympathy for a dude who by all accounts sounds like a huge asshat; congratulations, TLS lynch mob.

The best part of this whole story is that assuming his actual name is never connected to the story on google, in the long term he probably just dodged a huge bullet by getting shitcanned early from the Skadden Triangle Waist Company.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby runinthefront » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:39 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

*2L SA, has yet to be offered*

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:56 pm

runinthefront wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

*2L SA, has yet to be offered*


Seems like a pointless dig, given that firms in general have over a 95% offer rate. But I don't mind coming back to this post in August lol.

Also don't really get what you have against that post.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby TLSModBot » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:08 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

*2L SA, has yet to be offered*


Seems like a pointless dig, given that firms in general have over a 95% offer rate. But I don't mind coming back to this post in August lol.

Also don't really get what you have against that post.

It's factually wrong, for a start.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:17 pm

Capitol_Idea wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

*2L SA, has yet to be offered*


Seems like a pointless dig, given that firms in general have over a 95% offer rate. But I don't mind coming back to this post in August lol.

Also don't really get what you have against that post.

It's factually wrong, for a start.


The drunken peeing story was told to me by a partner, so that one is actually factually true. That SA was no-offered at the end of his summer. I'll admit the chicken scratches theory is hyperbole.

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star fox

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby star fox » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:24 pm

You can't always fully trust those stories. People tell tall tales in order to create a sense of comfort among SAs. Cold Offers happen and stuff. That kind of attitude is kind of shitty since it creates a culture where everyone who doesn't get an offer is assumed to be the guy who peed on the table in front of everyone (which is probably a fake story).

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby rpupkin » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:40 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:
You can drunkenly whip your dick out and pee on a table and a firm will keep you for the rest of the summer before no-offering you. You have to do something really egregious to get fired. I bet you could blow every deadline and hand in chicken scratches and wouldnt be fired for poor performance.

*2L SA, has yet to be offered*


Seems like a pointless dig, given that firms in general have over a 95% offer rate. But I don't mind coming back to this post in August lol.

Also don't really get what you have against that post.

It's factually wrong, for a start.


The drunken peeing story was told to me by a partner, so that one is actually factually true.

Interesting unstated premise.

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pancakes3

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:46 pm

Cold offers are different than no-offers. A flat no-offer negatively impacts the firm's reputation so when a firm does that, they're going out of their way to do so so you can presume that it was for-cause and not just for economic reasons. Even for the SA, even though practically he doesn't have a job either way, it makes a big difference going to 3L OCI to say "I was cold-offered bc of economics" than "I was no-offered."

Also, blowing off deadlines and turning in shit work-product has been widely attested to as a reason for a no/cold-offer. Turning in chicken-scratch and cruising to an offer, even at 100% firms is hyperbole. You have to be at least serviceable to get an offer, which tbh is not a very high bar.

Being no-offered for a 1L SA is also much different than a 2L SA. Can the anon elaborate? Is it a total SA class of 8-10 including 1Ls (like a 6/2 split of 2L:1L) and 1Ls regularly get no-offered for 2L SA's?

reading comp eta: PNJ is saying that the piss kid WAS no-offered, but it was at the end of the SA, and there is an even bigger distinction between being no-offered and flat out fired mid-SA, which I def agree w. That's why I think the fact that this kid was fired mid-term is already a huge reputational stain bc you can presume that some ridic shit went down and the nature of the ridic shit is a secondary issue.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:56 pm

rpupkin wrote:Interesting unstated premise.


I mean, I can't prove whether the partner was telling the truth or not, but my larger point was that you can go really far without being fired (but still get no-offered or cold offered). I've hear another story from a more senior associate (again, can't prove whether they were lying or not), about a SA who was caught by venue security peeing on a door outside (yes, lots of drunken SAs peeing). When asked for their name, this SA gave the name of a very senior partner at the firm. Obviously, when this very senior partner got a phone call, things went downhill for this SA. That person still finished out the summer, although clearly did not get an offer at the end of it.

I did not mean to insinuate that you have to do something as egregious as peeing on a table to get no-offered; my only point was that you can go quite far without being fired mid-SA.

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Re: SA Fired from Skadden

Postby nealric » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:35 pm

pancakes3 wrote:Cold offers are different than no-offers. A flat no-offer negatively impacts the firm's reputation so when a firm does that, they're going out of their way to do so so you can presume that it was for-cause and not just for economic reasons. Even for the SA, even though practically he doesn't have a job either way, it makes a big difference going to 3L OCI to say "I was cold-offered bc of economics" than "I was no-offered."

Also, blowing off deadlines and turning in shit work-product has been widely attested to as a reason for a no/cold-offer. Turning in chicken-scratch and cruising to an offer, even at 100% firms is hyperbole. You have to be at least serviceable to get an offer, which tbh is not a very high bar.

Being no-offered for a 1L SA is also much different than a 2L SA. Can the anon elaborate? Is it a total SA class of 8-10 including 1Ls (like a 6/2 split of 2L:1L) and 1Ls regularly get no-offered for 2L SA's?

reading comp eta: PNJ is saying that the piss kid WAS no-offered, but it was at the end of the SA, and there is an even bigger distinction between being no-offered and flat out fired mid-SA, which I def agree w. That's why I think the fact that this kid was fired mid-term is already a huge reputational stain bc you can presume that some ridic shit went down and the nature of the ridic shit is a secondary issue.


Depends on the market. NYC is a bit more no-offer adverse than other markets. Plenty of people get no-offered in Texas who never did anything wrong. Also depends on the economy- nobody blamed no offered people who summered in 2009.

Cold offers also can mean different things. They can mean they tell you that you have an offer but "think you would be happier elsewhere." Some people have actually accepted such offers after striking out with 3L recruiting. They can also mean, you were no-offered, but they offer to back you up if you tell other firms you got an offer (unethical, IMO, but it happens).



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