People telling others to mass mail already

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People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:37 am

Is now already the time? Seeing a lot of people tell others to do so and that they're late in the game even now.

Still waiting to get my second semester grades back and wondering if there's anything I can/should be doing...
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: People telling other stuff to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:40 am

Yes you should be mass mailing already, but without second semester grades you really can't. You need to have your resume polished, cover letter perfected, etc so the moment you get your gpa, you can input it into your resume and start mailing. Let me be very clear- lots of firm will start interviewing people this month, and some will get offers. Multiple top firms filled their classes last year weeks before OCI.

Edit:

So heres a list:

Make sure resume and all materials is ready to go. Maybe have resumes with different addresses when targeting different markets.

Start creating lists or an excel spreadsheet for all the firms in all the markets. Input email addresses to send apps.

email attorneys at the firm you have some connection with, like alumni from your law school to see if they can answer some questions.

All stuff to be doing while waiting for grades.

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pancakes3

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:48 am

yeah, it takes a decent amount of time to gear up for MM.

it's not too late, but it's also not too early

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:57 am

What if I have complete 1L grades but am waiting to hear from journals/moot court? Wait until then or send stuff out with just the GPA/class rank and supplement later?

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What if I have complete 1L grades but am waiting to hear from journals/moot court? Wait until then or send stuff out with just the GPA/class rank and supplement later?


Supplement later. Most journal assignments come out in July, and that could be too late. you can always follow up

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pancakes3

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:10 pm

i think that's the right advice for T13 but if anon isn't, they might need LR to keep their resumes from getting tossed in the reject pile (not sure how recruiters handle initial screening of resumes - there probably isn't even a uniform BL policy).

also, i still wouldn't say that early july's too late. it's just not ideal.

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Pokemon

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Pokemon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:10 pm

I graduated some time ago but it is not too late to mass mail even in mid-fall. That is when a lot of firms figure out how many accepted offers will be Looking at market for other students in case they did not receive many acceptances. But now is not too early either because cost of mass mailing is near zero.

However, I would wait for grades and list of firms you will be interviewing on oci.

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:12 pm

pancakes3 wrote:i think that's the right advice for T13 but if anon isn't, they might need LR to keep their resumes from getting tossed in the reject pile (not sure how recruiters handle initial screening of resumes - there probably isn't even a uniform BL policy).

also, i still wouldn't say that early july's too late. it's just not ideal.


I guess, but OP could also put it in the cover letter or email message saying OP completed write on and is waiting on journal assignment, but it doesn't come out until July XX. Its what I did and my friends did last year, but we are at a t13 so touche to your point.

Early July might not be too late, but offers for a bunch of v50 firms include v10 firms were going out by July 1st.

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:13 pm

Pokemon wrote:I graduated some time ago but it is not too late to mass mail even in mid-fall. That is when a lot of firms figure out how many accepted offers will be Looking at market for other students in case they did not receive many acceptances. But now is not too early either because cost of mass mailing is near zero.

However, I would wait for grades and list of firms you will be interviewing on oci.


I think this was the credited response a few years ago, but when 2 firms in the v10 filled their whole classes in mid july for major markets, its just too late to wait even till July.

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:18 pm

I gather from past threads that mass-mailing is a good idea even for people who expect good results from OCI (at least that seems to be the prevailing view here). I know better than to take the career services office at its word, but the general line from them is that early interviews before OCI are discouraged. The main concern seems to be that contacting firms early might lead them to screen you out, for whatever reason, based on resume/transcript - whereas, because OCI is randomly assigned, you might otherwise have gotten an interview and had a shot at overcoming first impressions based on how you appear on paper. I wonder if somebody could respond to this concern and whether it's legitimate. Thanks in advance!

Stats: CCN, top 8-12% (best guess based on past threads and such)

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I gather from past threads that mass-mailing is a good idea even for people who expect good results from OCI (at least that seems to be the prevailing view here). I know better than to take the career services office at its word, but the general line from them is that early interviews before OCI are discouraged. The main concern seems to be that contacting firms early might lead them to screen you out, for whatever reason, based on resume/transcript - whereas, because OCI is randomly assigned, you might otherwise have gotten an interview and had a shot at overcoming first impressions based on how you appear on paper. I wonder if somebody could respond to this concern and whether it's legitimate. Thanks in advance!

Stats: CCN, top 8-12% (best guess based on past threads and such)


If you have those stats, mass mail now, get callbacks and offers to the v10 in July, don't even do OCI. It is in career services interest to have everyone wait until oci, but thats not what happens anymore. You are literally a great candidate for early interviews and offers. I know my t13 moved up OCI this year 3 WEEKS earlier than last years because so many offers went out before OCI that firms just didn't make offers to anyone because their classes were full. I can name 4 firms in the v20 that did that, along with a lot of other v100 firms with smaller class sizes. One firm has stopped going to OCI altogether because they can get interviews and offers with just summer mass mailing and not spend the money going to OCI

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Pokemon » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 pm

grades?? wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I graduated some time ago but it is not too late to mass mail even in mid-fall. That is when a lot of firms figure out how many accepted offers will be Looking at market for other students in case they did not receive many acceptances. But now is not too early either because cost of mass mailing is near zero.

However, I would wait for grades and list of firms you will be interviewing on oci.


I think this was the credited response a few years ago, but when 2 firms in the v10 filled their whole classes in mid july for major markets, its just too late to wait even till July.



Jesus Christ. Ignore me then

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:24 pm

grades?? wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I gather from past threads that mass-mailing is a good idea even for people who expect good results from OCI (at least that seems to be the prevailing view here). I know better than to take the career services office at its word, but the general line from them is that early interviews before OCI are discouraged. The main concern seems to be that contacting firms early might lead them to screen you out, for whatever reason, based on resume/transcript - whereas, because OCI is randomly assigned, you might otherwise have gotten an interview and had a shot at overcoming first impressions based on how you appear on paper. I wonder if somebody could respond to this concern and whether it's legitimate. Thanks in advance!

Stats: CCN, top 8-12% (best guess based on past threads and such)


If you have those stats, mass mail now, get callbacks and offers to the v10 in July, don't even do OCI. It is in career services interest to have everyone wait until oci, but thats not what happens anymore. You are literally a great candidate for early interviews and offers. I know my t13 moved up OCI this year 3 WEEKS earlier than last years because so many offers went out before OCI that firms just didn't make offers to anyone because their classes were full. I can name 4 firms in the v20 that did that, along with a lot of other v100 firms with smaller class sizes. One firm has stopped going to OCI altogether because they can get interviews and offers with just summer mass mailing and not spend the money going to OCI


Thanks! Good to know.

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby dabigchina » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:25 pm

grades?? wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I gather from past threads that mass-mailing is a good idea even for people who expect good results from OCI (at least that seems to be the prevailing view here). I know better than to take the career services office at its word, but the general line from them is that early interviews before OCI are discouraged. The main concern seems to be that contacting firms early might lead them to screen you out, for whatever reason, based on resume/transcript - whereas, because OCI is randomly assigned, you might otherwise have gotten an interview and had a shot at overcoming first impressions based on how you appear on paper. I wonder if somebody could respond to this concern and whether it's legitimate. Thanks in advance!

Stats: CCN, top 8-12% (best guess based on past threads and such)


If you have those stats, mass mail now, get callbacks and offers to the v10 in July, don't even do OCI. It is in career services interest to have everyone wait until oci, but thats not what happens anymore. You are literally a great candidate for early interviews and offers. I know my t13 moved up OCI this year 3 WEEKS earlier than last years because so many offers went out before OCI that firms just didn't make offers to anyone because their classes were full. I can name 4 firms in the v20 that did that, along with a lot of other v100 firms with smaller class sizes. One firm has stopped going to OCI altogether because they can get interviews and offers with just summer mass mailing and not spend the money going to OCI

which firms filled their classes?

ETA: it's not too late to start. Just start now.

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:26 pm

Pokemon wrote:
grades?? wrote:
Pokemon wrote:I graduated some time ago but it is not too late to mass mail even in mid-fall. That is when a lot of firms figure out how many accepted offers will be Looking at market for other students in case they did not receive many acceptances. But now is not too early either because cost of mass mailing is near zero.

However, I would wait for grades and list of firms you will be interviewing on oci.


I think this was the credited response a few years ago, but when 2 firms in the v10 filled their whole classes in mid july for major markets, its just too late to wait even till July.



Jesus Christ. Ignore me then


Yeah, last year was nuts. Apparently two summers ago a handful of firms tested the waters to see if schools would notice, but last year it was the wild wild west in NY/DC and I've heard LA. People getting callbacks/offers by July 1st, classes filling up mid july, firms going to OCI and not giving out callbacks at nearly the same rate as the year before because they already have 50%+ of their class filled. My t13 moved oci up 3 weeks this summer I guess to help try to mitigate this. But for a firm, it means less money spent when the applicants come to you and you can cherry pick and not have to be at the whims of a lottery system.

Edit: Pm me for which firms

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Re: People telling other stuff to mass mail already

Postby favabeansoup » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:27 pm

grades?? wrote:Let me be very clear- lots of firm will start interviewing people this month, and some will get offers. Multiple top firms filled their classes last year weeks before OCI.

Edit:

So heres a list:

Make sure resume and all materials is ready to go. Maybe have resumes with different addresses when targeting different markets.

Start creating lists or an excel spreadsheet for all the firms in all the markets. Input email addresses to send apps.

email attorneys at the firm you have some connection with, like alumni from your law school to see if they can answer some questions.

All stuff to be doing while waiting for grades.


OP to emphasize this just a little more. It is becoming increasingly common for some of the largest firms to fill half or more of their summer classes through pre-OCI hiring programs. Whether that is early job fairs, interviews through mass mailing, or what.

Whether early - mid June is "too early" is a debatable point, but regardless you can absolutely be doing all of the things this poster mentions. Making a list of firms, preparing your resumes/cover letters, etc. You just want to be able to plug it in and send for when they come.

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby CrispDrip » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:46 pm

I asked the question about waiting for journal/write on to mass mail. I attend a TT, top 10% and likely to grade onto LR. My school almost exclusively feeds one secondary market. Career services has already rolled out an OCI list and it basically has all the big firms in the city on it. For me, mass mailing will be primarily to the mid-sized firms in my secondary market that do not show up at OCI. I highly doubt the big firms at my OCI will be doing some pre-OCI hiring shenanigans, I think the top two firms in my city hover around V50. So I think I will start early and supplement will journals later. I doubt mid-size firms will be tossing a resume from a strong regional with top 10% grades, even if I have yet to hear from LR. Just to clarify mass mailing entails cover letter, resume, unofficial transcript, and writing sample right?

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Re: People telling other stuff to mass mail already

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:22 pm

grades?? wrote:Yes you should be mass mailing already, but without second semester grades you really can't. You need to have your resume polished, cover letter perfected, etc so the moment you get your gpa, you can input it into your resume and start mailing. Let me be very clear- lots of firm will start interviewing people this month, and some will get offers. Multiple top firms filled their classes last year weeks before OCI.

Edit:

So heres a list:

Make sure resume and all materials is ready to go. Maybe have resumes with different addresses when targeting different markets.

Start creating lists or an excel spreadsheet for all the firms in all the markets. Input email addresses to send apps.

email attorneys at the firm you have some connection with, like alumni from your law school to see if they can answer some questions.

All stuff to be doing while waiting for grades.


Lol I don't know what you're considering a "top firm" but at least one person from my school ended up at every V20 firm from OCI.

grades??

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Re: People telling other stuff to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:25 pm

GoneSouth wrote:
grades?? wrote:Yes you should be mass mailing already, but without second semester grades you really can't. You need to have your resume polished, cover letter perfected, etc so the moment you get your gpa, you can input it into your resume and start mailing. Let me be very clear- lots of firm will start interviewing people this month, and some will get offers. Multiple top firms filled their classes last year weeks before OCI.

Edit:

So heres a list:

Make sure resume and all materials is ready to go. Maybe have resumes with different addresses when targeting different markets.

Start creating lists or an excel spreadsheet for all the firms in all the markets. Input email addresses to send apps.

email attorneys at the firm you have some connection with, like alumni from your law school to see if they can answer some questions.

All stuff to be doing while waiting for grades.


Lol I don't know what you're considering a "top firm" but at least one person from my school ended up at every V20 firm from OCI.


It was for one of their major offices, not firmwide. But I know 2 v20s and 1 v10 that completely filled their summer class in a major market before OCI started, along with a bunch others that filled 80%+

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:05 pm

How does this apply to people who have 1L SAs? Any advice on if we should MM anyway or wait to see if we get return offers?

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yyyuppp

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby yyyuppp » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:17 pm

how do we handle MMing different firm offices? Should I MM both the DC and NYC office of a firm? Or just email the firm once and add that we are interested in both offices?

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:20 pm

yyyuppp wrote:how do we handle MMing different firm offices? Should I MM both the DC and NYC office of a firm? Or just email the firm once and add that we are interested in both offices?


Mass mail them all separately. Some will ask you to fill out one online application for all offices, others will have no way to know you applied across offices. It differs, but just apply separately and let them tell you otherwise.

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby yyyuppp » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:39 pm

grades?? wrote:
yyyuppp wrote:how do we handle MMing different firm offices? Should I MM both the DC and NYC office of a firm? Or just email the firm once and add that we are interested in both offices?


Mass mail them all separately. Some will ask you to fill out one online application for all offices, others will have no way to know you applied across offices. It differs, but just apply separately and let them tell you otherwise.


should we be concerned about MMing multiple offices of firms coming to OCI and we will be interviewing with. For example, emailing both the D.C and NYC office, and then interviewing with the NYC office at OCI and saying "yep, I want NYC." Does this mater?

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:41 pm

Is this seriously the practice for T13 schools? I'm at CCN, solid grades, waiting to hear back from a journal, etc. Never once heard another student recommend going nuts with mass mailing before OCI, and every 2L/3L I know got their firm jobs through OCI,

Is this a new thing, or am I missing something?

grades??

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Re: People telling others to mass mail already

Postby grades?? » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is this seriously the practice for T13 schools? I'm at CCN, solid grades, waiting to hear back from a journal, etc. Never once heard another student recommend going nuts with mass mailing before OCI, and every 2L/3L I know got their firm jobs through OCI,

Is this a new thing, or am I missing something?


Yes, especially certain markets like LA and DC where the classes are tiny compared to NY and extremely competitive. It has been a rapid change just this past year, but it certainly happened in some major markets. As someone who goes to a t13 and witnessed this myself last year.



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