Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

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heyoshawn

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Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby heyoshawn » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:32 pm

I am just a hair above median at a T14. Was not well informed about the importance of journals and did not do the write on competition. Am I screwed for Cali biglaw? Been hearing this "must check the journal box or no call back" talk a lot lately and freaking out a bit.

Is there any way to overcome not having a journal?

grades??

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby grades?? » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:38 pm

Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:44 pm

grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.

He (or she) already said they were misinformed about the importance of write on; not sure how this is supposed to answer their question.

OP, I'm not an OCI guru, but do you have any ties to/go to school in California? If you do, mass mail like crazy, and check with your CSO to find out what firms have historically taken median students from your school (if you don't have ties to California - or even if you do - you will probably want to broaden your search to improve your chances).

umichman

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby umichman » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:45 pm

If you want to do transactional you are probably fine mostly. If you want to do lit, it might work to say you were planning on doing moot court and it was too much to do both. U r not out of it, but you will definitely have to explain it to certain firms. Of course there may be some firms that are particularly harsh on you for not doing journals, but those mostly top lit firms and boutiques.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:19 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.

He (or she) already said they were misinformed about the importance of write on; not sure how this is supposed to answer their question.

OP, I'm not an OCI guru, but do you have any ties to/go to school in California? If you do, mass mail like crazy, and check with your CSO to find out what firms have historically taken median students from your school (if you don't have ties to California - or even if you do - you will probably want to broaden your search to improve your chances).


Thanks! I really appreciate the advice! Do you know when would be a good time to start mass mailing?

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:20 pm

grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.


Haha I am aware it is all my fault. If you have any advice I would really appreciate it.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:20 pm

umichman wrote:If you want to do transactional you are probably fine mostly. If you want to do lit, it might work to say you were planning on doing moot court and it was too much to do both. U r not out of it, but you will definitely have to explain it to certain firms. Of course there may be some firms that are particularly harsh on you for not doing journals, but those mostly top lit firms and boutiques.


I see, thanks!

grades??

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby grades?? » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.


Haha I am aware it is all my fault. If you have any advice I would really appreciate it.


Start mass mailing tomorrow.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 am

Based on hiring data from my schools OCI last year, just above median is going to be tough in CA. Roughly 80% of the big law firms seemed to only be interested in those with 3.5 and above.


Mod Edit: seems worth pointing out that the school in question here is UCLA and thus this is not an apples to apples comparison.

heyoshawn

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby heyoshawn » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:Based on hiring data from my schools OCI last year, just above median is going to be tough in CA. Roughly 80% of the big law firms seemed to only be interested in those with 3.5 and above.


what is the median at your school?

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby existentialcrisis » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:03 am

grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.


This seems extreme.

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cron1834

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby cron1834 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:14 am

Journal really isn't THAT big of a deal, especially if you don't want litigation. It will probably look not-great if you have nothing to compensate for it on your resume, though. So if you've volunteered for a pro bono project, helped run a student group, helped a prof with research, make sure it's on the resume, and play these things up if you get asked about extra curriculars.

The bigger problem is GPA, as others have noted. So apply broadly in CA BEFORE OCI and be prepared to bid some large NY firms that median students get at OCI as a backup.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby nyu2019maybeplease » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:15 am

If you sound anything like this in real life I feel sorry for you.

grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:36 am

Wait what? I've never heard this must check the journal box bs. It's a long running and still unsettled TLS debate whether non-flagship journals do anything for people, and consensus seems to be that they're not worth it.

Anyway, it's tough to say whether you're screwed or not without knowing what t14 you're at. Median at Cornell or Duke to Cali is a different beast than median at Stanford.

You're not screwed but I can't really tell you more without knowing more. Your school should have an oci thread soon, go to that for tailored advice. Or your career services.

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jess

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby jess » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:40 am

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Last edited by jess on Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:41 am

jess wrote:
BlendedUnicorn wrote:Wait what? I've never heard this must check the journal box bs. It's a long running and still unsettled TLS debate whether non-flagship journals do anything for people, and consensus seems to be that they're not worth it.

Anyway, it's tough to say whether you're screwed or not without knowing what t14 you're at. Median at Cornell or Duke to Cali is a different beast than median at Stanford.

You're not screwed but I can't really tell you more without knowing more. Your school should have an oci thread soon, go to that for tailored advice. Or your career services.

but a stanford student would never describe their school as "a T14"


I know but I was setting up wide goal posts to emphasize the point.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:24 am

BlendedUnicorn wrote:Wait what? I've never heard this must check the journal box bs. It's a long running and still unsettled TLS debate whether non-flagship journals do anything for people, and consensus seems to be that they're not worth it.

Anyway, it's tough to say whether you're screwed or not without knowing what t14 you're at. Median at Cornell or Duke to Cali is a different beast than median at Stanford.

You're not screwed but I can't really tell you more without knowing more. Your school should have an oci thread soon, go to that for tailored advice. Or your career services.

I don't think there's been any consensus on whether secondary journals do anything for people. Sure, I think they probably don't help, but the absence of a journal on a resume definitely raises some eyebrows during OCI, especially if the student doesn't appear to have anything else going on and 70%+ of the class is on some kind of journal.

I haven't heard of any hard and fast "check the box" requirements, though.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby existentialcrisis » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
BlendedUnicorn wrote:Wait what? I've never heard this must check the journal box bs. It's a long running and still unsettled TLS debate whether non-flagship journals do anything for people, and consensus seems to be that they're not worth it.

Anyway, it's tough to say whether you're screwed or not without knowing what t14 you're at. Median at Cornell or Duke to Cali is a different beast than median at Stanford.

You're not screwed but I can't really tell you more without knowing more. Your school should have an oci thread soon, go to that for tailored advice. Or your career services.

I don't think there's been any consensus on whether secondary journals do anything for people. Sure, I think they probably don't help, but the absence of a journal on a resume definitely raises some eyebrows during OCI, especially if the student doesn't appear to have anything else going on and 70%+ of the class is on some kind of journal.

I haven't heard of any hard and fast "check the box" requirements, though.


They're probably worth it to do, because some people apparently care.

But if I ever do OCI I interviews, I will give props for skipping secondary journal.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:15 pm

heyoshawn wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Based on hiring data from my schools OCI last year, just above median is going to be tough in CA. Roughly 80% of the big law firms seemed to only be interested in those with 3.5 and above.


what is the median at your school?


Between 3.2-3.3 I think.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby dabigchina » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:20 pm

+1 for you need to tell us your school for us to give you good advice. However:

1. secondary journals are useless. CA corporate (at least norcal) seems to give even less fucks about it than other markets.
2. Median is doable. It's not great but it's doable. You need to have ties. You need to be good at interviews.
3. Massmail.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:19 pm

If the journal thing is really freaking you out, at some schools, the secondary journals will take people who didn't write on to fill their spots. You might want to see if journals at your school do that.

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whats an updog

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby whats an updog » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:27 pm

As long as you have other accomplishments/extracurriculars that you can talk about, not being on a secondary isn't going to be what hurts you. I agree with everyone else that you need to be aggressively mass mailing and probably split bids with NY to ensure best chances at employment. Do OTIP if your school participates.

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Sprout

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Sprout » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:36 pm

OP- start mass mailing now. Right now. Do not wait till OCI.

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Iwanttolawschool

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:05 pm

grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.


This isn't true. I was median at a low T-14, didn't do write-on and had many offers to Cali Biglaw. Needing a journal is a myth. The top half of the class, who are nervous about biglaw, do write-on, then because they got biglaw, they assume that proves you need to do a journal.

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Re: Median grade, no journal, want California, am I screwed?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Iwanttolawschool wrote:
grades?? wrote:Why would you think it would be a good idea to not write on when literally the advice is always do write on, even if you find yourself later wanting to not accept a journal. You f8&%ed yourself and its no ones fault but yours.


This isn't true. I was median at a low T-14, didn't do write-on and had many offers to Cali Biglaw. Needing a journal is a myth. The top half of the class, who are nervous about biglaw, do write-on, then because they got biglaw, they assume that proves you need to do a journal.


Same, except DC instead of California. My not being on a journal wasn't brought up once during OCI/callbacks. Not doing a journal is not a kiss of death by any means.



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