OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

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Wild Card

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Re: OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

Postby Wild Card » Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Vault ranking does not equal firm selectivity. Yeah, White & Case is "V20," but it hires most of its class basically from median and below at every T13, and it should absolutely be at or near the top of a bidlist for someone with low grades at UChi. Telling people to apply to between V[#]~V[#] is dumb as fuck and you can fuck your legal career up following that advice.

Countless examples abound. Shearman (V36) is more selective than White & Case (V20). Cahill (V50) and Freshfields (V48) are both more selective than Paul Hastings (V24). Irell (V58) and Susman (V60) are more selective than just about any firm in the country with the exception of a handful of firms, and so on.

Rely on the past years' OCI data that your school provides + use NALP directory to get a list of firms that pull from median and below at UChi and that also has a SA class size of 20+. Taking class size into account is huge. Yeah, McDermott is a "V59" but its NY office hires like 5 SAs. It's a waste of a bid to place it high on your list. Firms with bigger classes make more offers. Be strategic about this. Small SA class size usually also means that the firm is more selective about non-quantifiable things like "fit" during the interview stage. Also be mindful about the differences between offices at the same firm (e.g., Kirkland Chi is harder to get than Kirkland NY).

UChi does well in NY and a lot of firms are willing to dip below median at UChi. Stay focused and you will come out with a job.


From where are you drawing your examples? Chicago's internal data?

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chicago-gunner123

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Re: OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

Postby chicago-gunner123 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:15 am

Has OCS not released the data on firms' 25th and 75ths GPAs from past years yet? If not, PM me and I can send you the data from past OCIs that we got the previous two years. Just based on what everyone has said on this thread, it doesn't seem like very Chicago-specific advice and there are some very "random" firms that take people from the bottom of the class at Chicago that don't take from the bottom at other schools, so you are going to want to consider those GPA numbers from firms above everything else.

Additionally, your intuition about bigger class size is right. There are some firms whose GPA medians will suggest they take people with sub 175s, but then if you look at how many people they call back you will see they call back one person a year due to small class sizes. So, while your GPA won't take you out of the running with those firms, you'll still be competing against 25 classmates with similar grades for one spot. Meanwhile firms like Skadden who call back 30 people can sometimes be a better bet. I'm not saying to bid Skadden, I don't know your particular situation, I am just saying to weight class size when bidding as well.

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chicago-gunner123

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Re: OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

Postby chicago-gunner123 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:18 am

Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Vault ranking does not equal firm selectivity. Yeah, White & Case is "V20," but it hires most of its class basically from median and below at every T13, and it should absolutely be at or near the top of a bidlist for someone with low grades at UChi. Telling people to apply to between V[#]~V[#] is dumb as fuck and you can fuck your legal career up following that advice.

Countless examples abound. Shearman (V36) is more selective than White & Case (V20). Cahill (V50) and Freshfields (V48) are both more selective than Paul Hastings (V24). Irell (V58) and Susman (V60) are more selective than just about any firm in the country with the exception of a handful of firms, and so on.

Rely on the past years' OCI data that your school provides + use NALP directory to get a list of firms that pull from median and below at UChi and that also has a SA class size of 20+. Taking class size into account is huge. Yeah, McDermott is a "V59" but its NY office hires like 5 SAs. It's a waste of a bid to place it high on your list. Firms with bigger classes make more offers. Be strategic about this. Small SA class size usually also means that the firm is more selective about non-quantifiable things like "fit" during the interview stage. Also be mindful about the differences between offices at the same firm (e.g., Kirkland Chi is harder to get than Kirkland NY).

UChi does well in NY and a lot of firms are willing to dip below median at UChi. Stay focused and you will come out with a job.


From where are you drawing your examples? Chicago's internal data?


This isn't from Chicago internal data because Cahill and Shearman don't even come to our OCI -- or at least they haven't the past two years. I agree with the poster's point though that, "telling people to apply to between V[#]~V[#] is dumb as fuck and you can fuck your legal career up following that advice."

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Re: OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

Postby Bridgeport » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:50 pm

chicago-gunner123 wrote:
This isn't from Chicago internal data because Cahill and Shearman don't even come to our OCI -- or at least they haven't the past two years. I agree with the poster's point though that, "telling people to apply to between V[#]~V[#] is dumb as fuck and you can fuck your legal career up following that advice."


Rising 3L at UChi here and Shearman was at OCI last year.

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Re: OCI Advice (CCBA) w/bad 1L grades

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:47 pm

So I realize this is an old thread, but I'm actually in the same boat right now (bottom bottom of Chicago, about to participate in CCBA) and I could REALLY use any (seriously, any at all) extra advice from your prior experience. I don't know if op still checks this thread, but if you do please let me know how your CCBA/OCI went!



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