Columbia EIP 2017

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
dabigchina

Silver
Posts: 1429
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:22 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby dabigchina » Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'll throw another bidlist up. Is this too aggressive? I want DC litigation. What other firms should I have? I tried to get the good DC litigation firms and round out the list with NY firms with big classes.

GPA: 3.86

1. Boies (NY) (1)
2. Debevoise (NY) (3)
3. Hogan Lovells (DC) (6)
4. Cleary (NY) (10)
5. Sullivan and Cromwell (NY) (10)
6. Gibson Dunn (DC) (11)
7. Davis Polk (NY) (11)
8. Akin Gump (DC) (12)
9. Latham (NY) (13)
10. Skadden (DC) (15)
11. Covington and Burling (DC) (16)
12. Jones Day (DC) (18)
13. Arnold Porter (DC) (18)
14. Mayer Brown (DC) (18)
15. Williams and Connelly (DC) (19)
16. Cravath (NY) (19)
17. Watchell (NY) (21)
18. Steptoe (DC) (21)
19. WilmerHale (DC) (22)
20. Simpson Thatcher (NY) (22)
21. Schulte (NY) (27)
22. Paul Weiss (DC) (28)
23. Kirkland Ellis (NY) (28)
24. Skadden (London) (28)
25. Munger, Tolles, Olson (LA) (29)
26. Wilkie (DC) (30)
27. ?
28. ?
29. ?
30. ?

Not aggressive enough with your grades. Take off srz.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'll throw another bidlist up. Is this too aggressive? I want DC litigation. What other firms should I have? I tried to get the good DC litigation firms and round out the list with NY firms with big classes.

GPA: 3.86

1. Boies (NY) (1)
2. Debevoise (NY) (3)
3. Hogan Lovells (DC) (6)
4. Cleary (NY) (10)
5. Sullivan and Cromwell (NY) (10)
6. Gibson Dunn (DC) (11)
7. Davis Polk (NY) (11)
8. Akin Gump (DC) (12)
9. Latham (NY) (13)
10. Skadden (DC) (15)
11. Covington and Burling (DC) (16)
12. Jones Day (DC) (18)
13. Arnold Porter (DC) (18)
14. Mayer Brown (DC) (18)
15. Williams and Connelly (DC) (19)
16. Cravath (NY) (19)
17. Watchell (NY) (21)
18. Steptoe (DC) (21)
19. WilmerHale (DC) (22)
20. Simpson Thatcher (NY) (22)
21. Schulte (NY) (27)
22. Paul Weiss (DC) (28)
23. Kirkland Ellis (NY) (28)
24. Skadden (London) (28)
25. Munger, Tolles, Olson (LA) (29)
26. Wilkie (DC) (30)
27. ?
28. ?
29. ?
30. ?


You can afford to be aggressive. I had similar grades to you last year and went something like 17/20 on getting callbacks (only missed places like Boies, Williams & Connolly, Munger) and got offers from all but a couple of the callbacks I did. Unless you think you are a horrendous interviewer, you don't have to worry about striking out. Your goal is to identify your top choice firms and make SURE that you get screeners there. Put them well above last year's FFB (minimum of four spots), even if it means knocking other firms that you're not enthused about (some of the big class NY firms) off the list.

I'd definitely move Wilmer up. That's one you want to make sure you don't miss. Schulte NY and Skadden London are weird if you want lit (does Skadden even let you bid multiple offices?). Why are you bidding Cleary and Kirkland NY instead of DC?

You should bid Sidley DC. I'd also bid King & Spalding DC if you have any interest in appellate work--they have a very good appellate practice.

With your grades, I'd bid Susman--they do a two-week summer program that you can do after you finish a full program at another firm. Also doesn't look like Kellogg Hansen is coming to EIP, but you should reach out to their recruiter--I think they have a similar thing in their DC office.

If you're in DC this summer and can get out of your 1L job to interview, you should reach out to DC firms and try to get screeners now. Hopefully you can convert some into offers, which will make putting together your bid list a lot easier.

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10281
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:34 am

GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'll throw another bidlist up. Is this too aggressive? I want DC litigation. What other firms should I have? I tried to get the good DC litigation firms and round out the list with NY firms with big classes.

GPA: 3.86

1. Boies (NY) (1)
2. Debevoise (NY) (3)
3. Hogan Lovells (DC) (6)
4. Cleary (NY) (10)
5. Sullivan and Cromwell (NY) (10)
6. Gibson Dunn (DC) (11)
7. Davis Polk (NY) (11)
8. Akin Gump (DC) (12)
9. Latham (NY) (13)
10. Skadden (DC) (15)
11. Covington and Burling (DC) (16)
12. Jones Day (DC) (18)
13. Arnold Porter (DC) (18)
14. Mayer Brown (DC) (18)
15. Williams and Connelly (DC) (19)
16. Cravath (NY) (19)
17. Watchell (NY) (21)
18. Steptoe (DC) (21)
19. WilmerHale (DC) (22)
20. Simpson Thatcher (NY) (22)
21. Schulte (NY) (27)
22. Paul Weiss (DC) (28)
23. Kirkland Ellis (NY) (28)
24. Skadden (London) (28)
25. Munger, Tolles, Olson (LA) (29)
26. Wilkie (DC) (30)
27. ?
28. ?
29. ?
30. ?


You can afford to be aggressive. I had similar grades to you last year and went something like 17/20 on getting callbacks (only missed places like Boies, Williams & Connolly, Munger) and got offers from all but a couple of the callbacks I did. Unless you think you are a horrendous interviewer, you don't have to worry about striking out. Your goal is to identify your top choice firms and make SURE that you get screeners there. Put them well above last year's FFB (minimum of four spots), even if it means knocking other firms that you're not enthused about (some of the big class NY firms) off the list.

I'd definitely move Wilmer up. That's one you want to make sure you don't miss. Schulte NY and Skadden London are weird if you want lit (does Skadden even let you bid multiple offices?). Why are you bidding Cleary and Kirkland NY instead of DC?

You should bid Sidley DC. I'd also bid King & Spalding DC if you have any interest in appellate work--they have a very good appellate practice.

With your grades, I'd bid Susman--they do a two-week summer program that you can do after you finish a full program at another firm. Also doesn't look like Kellogg Hansen is coming to EIP, but you should reach out to their recruiter--I think they have a similar thing in their DC office.

If you're in DC this summer and can get out of your 1L job to interview, you should reach out to DC firms and try to get screeners now. Hopefully you can convert some into offers, which will make putting together your bid list a lot easier.


I agree with this. You can be even pickier as long as you have the standard ny elite (csm/dpw/s&c/simpson), at least one or two of which will take you on gpa alone

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:16 pm

Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10281
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)


This is risky with median grades.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)


I agree that this is really risky. You have a lot of wiggle room at the top of your bid list, I'd consider spending at least a couple bids on big NYC offices where you're likely to get an offer to ensure that you don't strike out.

You also have a lot of reach firms on there. Very unlikely that non-Stone is getting an offer at the DC offices of places like Wilmer, Jones Day, Cleary, Covington, Gibson, Hogan Lovells, O'Melveny, Paul Weiss. I'm not saying you have to get rid of all of then, but I'd strongly consider replacing at least some of them with NYC firms where you'd have a better chance.
Last edited by GoneSouth on Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:54 pm

Posting my bidlist for advice.

My grades suck (I think around 30th %tile), so my number one priority is obviously just to not strike out. However, I'd really like to avoid lit and find a firm that's above average in work-life balance. Strong ties to CA, decent ties to TX, FL, and London. Not sure if this matters, but I'm Asian (no foreign language skills though).

I was thinking about adding TX and London offices, but are there any other NY offices I should add? Anything I should remove?

(all NYC unless specified otherwise)
1. Sidley Austin (2)
2. Debevois (3)
3. White & Case (5)
4. Milkbank (6)
5. Cahill (9)
6. Willkie (9)
7. Gibson (10)
8. Akin Gump (11)
9. Fried Frank (13)
10. Kramer Levin (14)
11. K&L gates (16)
12.Linklaters (17)
13. Jones Day (19)
14. Paul Hastings (19)
15. Pillsbury (20)
16. Shearman (20)
17. Winston & Strawn (22)
18. Hunton & Williams (23)
19. Hogan Lovells (24)
20. Haynes & Boone (25)
21. Cadwalader (26)
22. Mayer Brown (26)
23. Arnold Porter Kaye (26)
24. Clifford Chance (27)
25. Schulte Roth (27)
26. Greenberg (none)
27. Skadden-Wilmington (none)
28. ??
29. ??
30. ??

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:02 pm

GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)


I agree that this is really risky. You have a lot of wiggle room at the top of your bid list, I'd consider spending at least a couple bids on big NYC offices where you're likely to get an offer to ensure that you don't strike out.

You also have a lot of reach firms on there. Very unlikely that non-Stone is getting an offer at the DC offices of places like Wilmer, Jones Day, Cleary, Covington, Gibson, Hogan Lovells, O'Melveny, Paul Weiss. I'm not saying you have to get rid of all of then, but I'd strongly consider replacing at least some of them with NYC firms where you'd have a better chance.


Thank you for the input. For the bigger NYC firms would you say go with - "Regardless of GPA, this should include all of the following, unless you have a seriously good reason not to bid one of the above: Cadwalader, Clifford Chance, Fried Frank, Greenberg Traurig, Hogan, K&L Gates, Kaye Scholer, Kramer Levin, Mayer Brown, Milbank, Paul Hastings, Proskauer, Schulte, Sidley, and Willkie. If you are at least median-ish, that list should also include Kirkland, Ropes, and Shearman."

^^^This list was lifted from one of the earlier posts

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)


I agree that this is really risky. You have a lot of wiggle room at the top of your bid list, I'd consider spending at least a couple bids on big NYC offices where you're likely to get an offer to ensure that you don't strike out.

You also have a lot of reach firms on there. Very unlikely that non-Stone is getting an offer at the DC offices of places like Wilmer, Jones Day, Cleary, Covington, Gibson, Hogan Lovells, O'Melveny, Paul Weiss. I'm not saying you have to get rid of all of then, but I'd strongly consider replacing at least some of them with NYC firms where you'd have a better chance.


Thank you for the input. For the bigger NYC firms would you say go with - "Regardless of GPA, this should include all of the following, unless you have a seriously good reason not to bid one of the above: Cadwalader, Clifford Chance, Fried Frank, Greenberg Traurig, Hogan, K&L Gates, Kaye Scholer, Kramer Levin, Mayer Brown, Milbank, Paul Hastings, Proskauer, Schulte, Sidley, and Willkie. If you are at least median-ish, that list should also include Kirkland, Ropes, and Shearman."

^^^This list was lifted from one of the earlier posts


That sounds like it could be right, but I'd look at the offer by honors report that's sorted by percentages and see which ones give a large number of offers to non-Stone (the raw number is more important than the percentage). Unless you're going to completely abandon your DC goal (which I don't think you have to), you won't have room to bid all of those New York firms, but you should bid a lot of them. You might also consider bidding the New York offices of some of the firms you listed and then trying to work out a split with DC after you get the offer.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Posting my bidlist for advice.

My grades suck (I think around 30th %tile), so my number one priority is obviously just to not strike out. However, I'd really like to avoid lit and find a firm that's above average in work-life balance. Strong ties to CA, decent ties to TX, FL, and London. Not sure if this matters, but I'm Asian (no foreign language skills though).

I was thinking about adding TX and London offices, but are there any other NY offices I should add? Anything I should remove?

(all NYC unless specified otherwise)
1. Sidley Austin (2)
2. Debevois (3)
3. White & Case (5)
4. Milkbank (6)
5. Cahill (9)
6. Willkie (9)
7. Gibson (10)
8. Akin Gump (11)
9. Fried Frank (13)
10. Kramer Levin (14)
11. K&L gates (16)
12.Linklaters (17)
13. Jones Day (19)
14. Paul Hastings (19)
15. Pillsbury (20)
16. Shearman (20)
17. Winston & Strawn (22)
18. Hunton & Williams (23)
19. Hogan Lovells (24)
20. Haynes & Boone (25)
21. Cadwalader (26)
22. Mayer Brown (26)
23. Arnold Porter Kaye (26)
24. Clifford Chance (27)
25. Schulte Roth (27)
26. Greenberg (none)
27. Skadden-Wilmington (none)
28. ??
29. ??
30. ??

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito


I would add more New York firms before I started branching out unless your ties are really good. Gibson is a weird reach if you want to avoid lit. Also why Skadden Wilmington? If you're going to take a shot at Skadden, go for NY or maybe LA with your Cali ties (they gave two non-Stone offers this year).

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:19 pm

GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Posting my bidlist for advice.

My grades suck (I think around 30th %tile), so my number one priority is obviously just to not strike out. However, I'd really like to avoid lit and find a firm that's above average in work-life balance. Strong ties to CA, decent ties to TX, FL, and London. Not sure if this matters, but I'm Asian (no foreign language skills though).

I was thinking about adding TX and London offices, but are there any other NY offices I should add? Anything I should remove?

(all NYC unless specified otherwise)
1. Sidley Austin (2)
2. Debevois (3)
3. White & Case (5)
4. Milkbank (6)
5. Cahill (9)
6. Willkie (9)
7. Gibson (10)
8. Akin Gump (11)
9. Fried Frank (13)
10. Kramer Levin (14)
11. K&L gates (16)
12.Linklaters (17)
13. Jones Day (19)
14. Paul Hastings (19)
15. Pillsbury (20)
16. Shearman (20)
17. Winston & Strawn (22)
18. Hunton & Williams (23)
19. Hogan Lovells (24)
20. Haynes & Boone (25)
21. Cadwalader (26)
22. Mayer Brown (26)
23. Arnold Porter Kaye (26)
24. Clifford Chance (27)
25. Schulte Roth (27)
26. Greenberg (none)
27. Skadden-Wilmington (none)
28. ??
29. ??
30. ??

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito


I would add more New York firms before I started branching out unless your ties are really good. Gibson is a weird reach if you want to avoid lit. Also why Skadden Wilmington? If you're going to take a shot at Skadden, go for NY or maybe LA with your Cali ties (they gave two non-Stone offers this year).


Really appreciate the feedback. Any suggestions on which NY firms? I was thinking about these:
Orrick
O'melveny
Morrison & Foerster
Dechert
Weil

Orrick and a few others on my list purport to have minimum GPA/rank requirements. Should I take them seriously?

Should I not choose Gibson if I don't want lit? I assumed the corporate practice was large enough and thought the stats made it an OK reach. I really don't care about Vault/prestige though so if there is a safer firm with a large enough class size that I'm missing, I'll put that in instead.

I chose Skadden Wilmington because I read somewhere on TLS that Wilmington is one of the easiest places to land big law if you can produce a decent explanation for why on earth you would want to work in Wilmington..not because I want a shot at putting Skadden on me resume. Would it be a better idea to replace it with another NY firm?

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Posting my bidlist for advice.

My grades suck (I think around 30th %tile), so my number one priority is obviously just to not strike out. However, I'd really like to avoid lit and find a firm that's above average in work-life balance. Strong ties to CA, decent ties to TX, FL, and London. Not sure if this matters, but I'm Asian (no foreign language skills though).

I was thinking about adding TX and London offices, but are there any other NY offices I should add? Anything I should remove?

(all NYC unless specified otherwise)
1. Sidley Austin (2)
2. Debevois (3)
3. White & Case (5)
4. Milkbank (6)
5. Cahill (9)
6. Willkie (9)
7. Gibson (10)
8. Akin Gump (11)
9. Fried Frank (13)
10. Kramer Levin (14)
11. K&L gates (16)
12.Linklaters (17)
13. Jones Day (19)
14. Paul Hastings (19)
15. Pillsbury (20)
16. Shearman (20)
17. Winston & Strawn (22)
18. Hunton & Williams (23)
19. Hogan Lovells (24)
20. Haynes & Boone (25)
21. Cadwalader (26)
22. Mayer Brown (26)
23. Arnold Porter Kaye (26)
24. Clifford Chance (27)
25. Schulte Roth (27)
26. Greenberg (none)
27. Skadden-Wilmington (none)
28. ??
29. ??
30. ??

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito


I would add more New York firms before I started branching out unless your ties are really good. Gibson is a weird reach if you want to avoid lit. Also why Skadden Wilmington? If you're going to take a shot at Skadden, go for NY or maybe LA with your Cali ties (they gave two non-Stone offers this year).


Really appreciate the feedback. Any suggestions on which NY firms? I was thinking about these:
Orrick
O'melveny
Morrison & Foerster
Dechert
Weil

Orrick and a few others on my list purport to have minimum GPA/rank requirements. Should I take them seriously?

Should I not choose Gibson if I don't want lit? I assumed the corporate practice was large enough and thought the stats made it an OK reach. I really don't care about Vault/prestige though so if there is a safer firm with a large enough class size that I'm missing, I'll put that in instead.

I chose Skadden Wilmington because I read somewhere on TLS that Wilmington is one of the easiest places to land big law if you can produce a decent explanation for why on earth you would want to work in Wilmington..not because I want a shot at putting Skadden on me resume. Would it be a better idea to replace it with another NY firm?


You can definitely bid Gibson for corporate...just seemed weird to pick that one to be your reach firm rather than somewhere like Kirkland, DPW, or STB if you're aiming to avoid lit. I don't know if it's like this in the NY office, but one of my friends who's summering in another GDC office and is interested in corporate said that all summers, regardless of interest, do mainly lit memos because the firm feels like that's the best way to evaluate their capabilities.

I have no idea how relatively hard/easy it is to get Skadden Wilmington, but I do know that office only has seven 2L summers while the New York office has 100+. So I'm guessing you'd have a better chance of getting a job at NY than Wilmington, but who knows. I do think you should bid one of the Skadden offices as a reach if you want corporate (probably New York, or with your Cali ties, LA, which you can put lower on your bid list if that's an issue). They're somewhat less grade sensitive than the other V5/10 firms.

I think all of those that you listed would be good adds except I'd avoid Dechert. They've allegedly been laying off juniors recently.

TheoO

Silver
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:28 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby TheoO » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Howdy - this is my first pass at a bid list. I'm thinking of all D.C.. (I have strong WE ties to the area and a strong desire to be there career-wise).

GPA - likely to wind up somewhere in the 3.28 - 3.33 range (B/B/B+/B+/B+/A; still waiting on final grade).

All firms are the D.C. office (in cases where the FFB wasn't noted for the D.C. office, I defaulted to the NYC office). To my knowledge, every firm on the list is interviewing for D.C. this year.

Bid list (FFB in parentheses)
1. Sidley Austin (4)
2. Baker & McKenzie (3) (their FFB for NYC was 3 last year, they have interviews for all offices this year)
3. Hogan Lovells (6)
4. Ropes and Gray (6)
5. Gibson Dunn (11)
6. Davis Polk (11)
7. Akin Gump (12)
8. Skadden (15)
9. Covington (16)
10. Arnold and Porter (18)
11. Jones Day (18)
12. Mayer Brown (18)
13. Latham (19)
14. White and Case (19)
15. Kirkland (22)
16. Wilmer (22)
17. Steptoe (21)
18. Simpson Thatcher (22)
19. Paul Hastings (23)
20. Winston Strawn (22)
21. Morgan Lewis (24)
22. Cleary (26)
23. O'Melveny (28)
24. Paul Weiss (28)
25. Freshfields (28)
26. Willkie (30)
27. King and Spalding (29)
28. Crowell and Moring (off board)
29. Fried Frank (off board)
30. Fish and Richardson (off board)


You could at serious risk of strike out. Even assuming you get all of these interviews, and that is unlikely.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:23 pm

GoneSouth wrote:You can definitely bid Gibson for corporate...just seemed weird to pick that one to be your reach firm rather than somewhere like Kirkland, DPW, or STB if you're aiming to avoid lit. I don't know if it's like this in the NY office, but one of my friends who's summering in another GDC office and is interested in corporate said that all summers, regardless of interest, do mainly lit memos because the firm feels like that's the best way to evaluate their capabilities.

I have no idea how relatively hard/easy it is to get Skadden Wilmington, but I do know that office only has seven 2L summers while the New York office has 100+. So I'm guessing you'd have a better chance of getting a job at NY than Wilmington, but who knows. I do think you should bid one of the Skadden offices as a reach if you want corporate (probably New York, or with your Cali ties, LA, which you can put lower on your bid list if that's an issue). They're somewhat less grade sensitive than the other V5/10 firms.

I think all of those that you listed would be good adds except I'd avoid Dechert. They've allegedly been laying off juniors recently.


Thanks, you're right, Gibson doesn't seem like my cup of tea. I'll look into the other firms you mentioned.

-Cheesy Beefy Burrito

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:14 am

Missed Stone by half a grade... I'll have to do with a 3.38 (A- B+ B/A B+ B+ B). I'm guessing I'm slightly above median.

I'm targeting NY corporate, focusing on M&A. Is bidding high honors % (somewhere in 50-80% range) firms OK? I'm thinking Cleary, Kirkland, DPW maybe PW. I have a pretty related full time work experience (2 years) but not sure if it would help me overcome my grades.

- Dominos

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:Missed Stone by half a grade... I'll have to do with a 3.38 (A- B+ B/A B+ B+ B). I'm guessing I'm slightly above median.

I'm targeting NY corporate, focusing on M&A. Is bidding high honors % (somewhere in 50-80% range) firms OK? I'm thinking Cleary, Kirkland, DPW maybe PW. I have a pretty related full time work experience (2 years) but not sure if it would help me overcome my grades.

- Dominos


Kirkland you can get from your grades. Same with Skadden. Cleary and Davis Polk will be reaches; those firms make relatively few exceptions for non-honors students other than diverse candidates and those with out of bounds UG & work experience (DPW used to be 90%+ honors and Cleary 80%+ honors until about two years ago). I think you should include them but line your back bench with a lot non-honors firms since they aren't likely.

TheoO

Silver
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:28 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby TheoO » Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Missed Stone by half a grade... I'll have to do with a 3.38 (A- B+ B/A B+ B+ B). I'm guessing I'm slightly above median.

I'm targeting NY corporate, focusing on M&A. Is bidding high honors % (somewhere in 50-80% range) firms OK? I'm thinking Cleary, Kirkland, DPW maybe PW. I have a pretty related full time work experience (2 years) but not sure if it would help me overcome my grades.

- Dominos


What kind of work experience? Something like consulting may be able to cover some of the grade weakness. Not sure about biglaw para, but doubt it. PW is the closest of your reaches, and Kirkland is doable. Cleary, DPW are highly unlikely. I'd aim for firms along the line of Ropes.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Missed Stone by half a grade... I'll have to do with a 3.38 (A- B+ B/A B+ B+ B). I'm guessing I'm slightly above median.

I'm targeting NY corporate, focusing on M&A. Is bidding high honors % (somewhere in 50-80% range) firms OK? I'm thinking Cleary, Kirkland, DPW maybe PW. I have a pretty related full time work experience (2 years) but not sure if it would help me overcome my grades.

- Dominos


Kirkland you can get from your grades. Same with Skadden. Cleary and Davis Polk will be reaches; those firms make relatively few exceptions for non-honors students other than diverse candidates and those with out of bounds UG & work experience (DPW used to be 90%+ honors and Cleary 80%+ honors until about two years ago). I think you should include them but line your back bench with a lot non-honors firms since they aren't likely.


In a similar situation, 3.4 and change. Trying to add a couple reaches.

How is Skadden more doable than Cleary and DPW? Last year Skadden was in the high-80s, above both DPW and Cleary. Am I missing something? Figure all three are wasted bid from slightly above median.

-oh hello

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Missed Stone by half a grade... I'll have to do with a 3.38 (A- B+ B/A B+ B+ B). I'm guessing I'm slightly above median.

I'm targeting NY corporate, focusing on M&A. Is bidding high honors % (somewhere in 50-80% range) firms OK? I'm thinking Cleary, Kirkland, DPW maybe PW. I have a pretty related full time work experience (2 years) but not sure if it would help me overcome my grades.

- Dominos


Kirkland you can get from your grades. Same with Skadden. Cleary and Davis Polk will be reaches; those firms make relatively few exceptions for non-honors students other than diverse candidates and those with out of bounds UG & work experience (DPW used to be 90%+ honors and Cleary 80%+ honors until about two years ago). I think you should include them but line your back bench with a lot non-honors firms since they aren't likely.


In a similar situation, 3.4 and change. Trying to add a couple reaches.

How is Skadden more doable than Cleary and DPW? Last year Skadden was in the high-80s, above both DPW and Cleary. Am I missing something? Figure all three are wasted bid from slightly above median.

-oh hello


historically DPW, Simpson and Cleary are a little pickier than Skadden strictly going by grades (Skadden is picky for other things). I don't know about last year, might be abberant. I don't think they are necessarily wasted for low stone. I think if you have a lot of less grade-sensitive firms bid high on your list, a handful of the reaches can be appropriate for "just misses" like 3.38.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:04 pm

Hey guys, I'm trying to decide whether I should bid KE nyc corporate, or just KE nyc. I'm thinking of corporate but the FFB numbers are wide-apart (2 vs 28). Are people encouraged to bid strictly corporate if shooting for corporate? or is bidding the general choice OK?

- Dominos

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:17 am

3L EIP question - I had a ~3.2 GPA 1L and skipped EIP entirely because I didn't think I was interested in biglaw. For 2L I had ~3.6, but most of my classes were related to criminal law (though I did get an A in Corporations). The last two summers have really soured me on working in criminal law. Just curious if I'd have a good shot at EIP with the above numbers.

I am patent bar eligible, but have no related coursework and only a BS in Biology.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, I'm trying to decide whether I should bid KE nyc corporate, or just KE nyc. I'm thinking of corporate but the FFB numbers are wide-apart (2 vs 28). Are people encouraged to bid strictly corporate if shooting for corporate? or is bidding the general choice OK?

- Dominos


I think the FFB for regular Kirkland last year was a fluke. It's been 1 or 2 every year prior (edit: it went 3-2-1 in 2013-2014-2015). It may not return quite to normal this year because of people unthinkingly applying the FFB + 2-5 formula for bidding, but if you wanted to be sure of an interview you'd probably still have to rank them highly so the tradeoff isn't as big as it looks.

-Reinhold Niebuhr
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
Posts: 327306
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:07 am

GoneSouth wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Okay, I guess I'll get the bidlists started. Thanks in advance to everyone for any feedback. GPA is on the higher side of the 3.6-3.7 range. Goal is DC lit, though I want to make sure I'm doing a good enough job bidding NYC for backup. I imagine the top of my bidlist could be a bit tighter but really don't want to risk any of those interviews. All bids NYC unless otherwise noted. 2016 FFB is in parenthesis.

  1. Boies (1)
  2. Sidley DC (4)
  3. Hogan Lovells DC (6)
  4. Paul Weiss (9)
  5. Gibson Dunn (10)
  6. Gibson Dunn DC (11)
  7. Cleary (10)
  8. Davis Polk (11)
  9. Skadden (10)
  10. Skadden DC (15)
  11. Covington DC (16)
  12. Latham (13)
  13. Arnold & Porter DC (18)
  14. Jones Day DC (18)
  15. Latham DC (19)
  16. W&C (19)
  17. WilmerHale DC (22)
  18. Kirkland DC (22)
  19. Debevoise DC (24)
  20. STB (22)
  21. Cleary DC (26)
  22. White & Case DC (26)
  23. Paul Weiss DC (28)
  24. O'Melveny DC (28)
  25. Davis Polk DC (new)
  26. Kirkland (28 lol)
  27. Debevoise (3)
  28. Weil (4)
  29. Ropes (6)
  30. Sidley (2)

-Reinhold Niebuhr


- Seconded on checking to make sure firms allow you to bid multiple offices. I know Gibson doesn't for example, but they do have a very lax splitting policy. So I'd recommend bidding the NYC office (probably easier to get an offer there) and then trying to split with DC if you want.

- I'd guess Davis Polk DC is going to go higher, so I'd find a way to move that up if you care about it. Also decent chance you'll miss Kirkland.

- Not a big fan of just throwing away bids at the bottom, but maybe bidding a firm does help you pick up an interview at EIP. The Ropes bid is weird too--is there a particular reason you're interested in that?


Is there a general consensus on what to do with your low bids? It seems like the two major options are a) pick up firms without a FFB that you could probably grab in add/drop anyway, or b) throw them away on firms you won't get in the hopes that the FFB drops off a cliff (like Kirkland NY) or that it's helpful in picking up interviews at hospitality suites.

-Reinhold Niebuhr

User avatar
Tiago Splitter

Diamond
Posts: 17150
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:21 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is there a general consensus on what to do with your low bids? It seems like the two major options are a) pick up firms without a FFB that you could probably grab in add/drop anyway, or b) throw them away on firms you won't get in the hopes that the FFB drops off a cliff (like Kirkland NY) or that it's helpful in picking up interviews at hospitality suites.

-Reinhold Niebuhr

Bottom of the bidlist is a good place to bid a second market.

GoneSouth

Bronze
Posts: 331
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:00 am

Re: Columbia EIP 2017

Postby GoneSouth » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey guys, I'm trying to decide whether I should bid KE nyc corporate, or just KE nyc. I'm thinking of corporate but the FFB numbers are wide-apart (2 vs 28). Are people encouraged to bid strictly corporate if shooting for corporate? or is bidding the general choice OK?

- Dominos


I think the FFB for regular Kirkland last year was a fluke. It's been 1 or 2 every year prior (edit: it went 3-2-1 in 2013-2014-2015). It may not return quite to normal this year because of people unthinkingly applying the FFB + 2-5 formula for bidding, but if you wanted to be sure of an interview you'd probably still have to rank them highly so the tradeoff isn't as big as it looks.

-Reinhold Niebuhr


Yep, now that they release the FFB list, there's one or two firms that this happens for every year. Last year it was Shearman



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.