Columbia EIP 2017 Forum

[Anonymous User]

When will it all end? I really want to get out of the city at the end of August, is that possible?

Obviously it depends. Some people finish the week after EIP, some people will need the whole month of August, some people will be doing recruiting into the Fall semester. That said, I think 3-4 weeks is a safe bet.

Which week is our EIP "call back week" exactly. Told my s/o I'd be able to squeeze in one weekend in August

[4LTsPointingNorth]

When will it all end? I really want to get out of the city at the end of August, is that possible?

Obviously it depends. Some people finish the week after EIP, some people will need the whole month of August, some people will be doing recruiting into the Fall semester. That said, I think 3-4 weeks is a safe bet.

Which week is our EIP "call back week" exactly. Told my s/o I'd be able to squeeze in one weekend in August

Other than time it takes to prep for call back interviews, your weekends in August will all be free. No firm will schedule an interview for a Saturday or Sunday. Depending on when you hear back from firms and when you schedule callbacks, some weeks may be busier than others, but there's no real way of predicting which weeks in advance.

[GoneSouth]

Need some advice on a bid list

Transferring into CLS from T40 w/ ~3.7 GPA, no news on LR/journal yet, non-URM, 4 years work experience. Looking at NY, TX (have ties) & LA (no ties) mostly for corporate but also included some lit options.

Any help would be massively appreciated!

1 White & Case – NY (5)
2 Morrison & Foerster – NY (5)
3 Milbank Tweed – NY (6)
4 Paul Weiss – NY (9)
5 Skadden – NY (10)
6 Davis Polk – NY (11)
7 Latham & Watkins – NY (13)
8 Sullivan & Cromwell - NY (10)
9 Akin Gump – NY (11)
10 Cravath – NY (14)
11 Covington - NY (16)
12 Simpson Thacher – NY (22)
13 King & Spalding – NY (15)
14 Arnold & Porter – NY (26)
15 Gibson Dunn – Dallas (30)
16 Vinson & Elkins – Houston (no failed bid for the rest)
17 Baker Botts - Houston
18 Baker & McKenzie - Houston
19 Jones Day - Houston
20 Kirkland & Ellis - NY
21 Akin Gump - LA
22 Foley & Lardner - LA
23 Kirkland & Ellis - LA
24 Baker & Hostetler - Houston
25 Hunton & Williams - Houston
26 King & Spalding - Houston
27 Willkie Farr - Houston
28 Haynes & Boone - Houston
29 Norton Rose Fulbright - Houston
30 DLA Piper - LA

Thanks!

This list seems a bit aggressive given that you only picked the most selective NY firms (for the most part) and the non-NY firms have smaller classes. You can never be sure how firms treat transfers. For example, I know Skadden completely disregards your transfer and evaluates you like you were at your old school (in which a 3.7 at a t-40 may be unlikely to cut it).

[GoneSouth]

When will it all end? I really want to get out of the city at the end of August, is that possible?

Obviously it depends. Some people finish the week after EIP, some people will need the whole month of August, some people will be doing recruiting into the Fall semester. That said, I think 3-4 weeks is a safe bet.

Which week is our EIP "call back week" exactly. Told my s/o I'd be able to squeeze in one weekend in August

Plan on doing callbacks at least the two weeks after EIP. That said, your weekends will be fine unless you are going to do Monday callbacks in another city and need to travel Sunday.

[Anonymous User]

Couple EIP questions

1. What do we do if we have like a 3 or 4 hour break between interviews? It hardly seems worth heading back to Morningside Heights (it will be SO HOT and we are in suits/dresses) but I also don't want to just sit in the double tree all day...

2. How does the "day of" lottery work?

[Anonymous User]

Couple EIP questions

1. What do we do if we have like a 3 or 4 hour break between interviews? It hardly seems worth heading back to Morningside Heights (it will be SO HOT and we are in suits/dresses) but I also don't want to just sit in the double tree all day...

2. How does the "day of" lottery work?

1. You'll be in Times Square. There are things you can do near there. It will be hot and crowded so try to not to linger in the Times Square area though. Ideas that come to mind: Go to the Schwartzman library in Bryant Park (around 42nd and 5th). Get a massage (https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=m ... York%2C+NY). Get some lunch (https://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=r ... w+York,+NY). Etc.

2. You go to the designated lottery room in the morning. There will be a whiteboard with a list of firms and blank spaces next to the firm indicating open interview slots and times. Write your name on a piece of paper Petal or someone will have on a table, and put that in the designated box/basket. Then at the designated time, she or someone will pull names out of the box/basket, and if your name is called, you can write your name in a any open blank space. If the blank spaces for the firms that you want to interview with are all full, then you can just leave (no need to stay until the end).

[Anonymous User]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

[kingpin101]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

There is no such thing as too many interviews until you have a job.

[stoopkid13]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

[Tiago Splitter]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

That's just hindsight talking. If you hadn't received any offers you'd be singing a different tune.

OP 11 in a day is busy but you'll see that it's not really that bad. If you have excellent grades you can cancel a few. Otherwise just roll with it.

To the question about what to do with a long break, Morningside Heights is like 10-15 minutes away, but the massage option is intriguing. I wish I'd have considered that.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

Does OCS still tell people not to take more than ~20 on account of being "tired?" Because that's the single most damaging thing they told people.

These are the four most important days of your law school career. Having to drink a second cup of coffee or waste a few hours with longshot firms is peanuts in the context of striking out. To echo Tiago, don't leave ANY stone unturned until you have an offer. I spent six solid weeks researching and emailing hundreds and hundreds of mass mailing firms, mostly getting back radio silence, which all became worthless after I got an offer from EIP. I don't regret it for a second. Hopefully things go great for y'all at EIP (and for most people, they will). But if you're one of the unlucky ones, you damn well want to be sure you took every opportunity you had.

[Bach-City]

.

[RSN]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

Does OCS still tell people not to take more than ~20 on account of being "tired?" Because that's the single most damaging thing they told people.

These are the four most important days of your law school career. Having to drink a second cup of coffee or waste a few hours with longshot firms is peanuts in the context of striking out. To echo Tiago, don't leave ANY stone unturned until you have an offer. I spent six solid weeks researching and emailing hundreds and hundreds of mass mailing firms, mostly getting back radio silence, which all became worthless after I got an offer from EIP. I don't regret it for a second. Hopefully things go great for y'all at EIP (and for most people, they will). But if you're one of the unlucky ones, you damn well want to be sure you took every opportunity you had.

Return of the GOAT

[stoopkid13]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

That's just hindsight talking. If you hadn't received any offers you'd be singing a different tune.

Maybe, but I don't think so. I think people tend to get more worked up about EIP than they should, especially on TLS. If you strike out, it's not the end of the world; it just means you have to hustle harder.

I disagree that the people who strikeout are "unlucky." Getting turned down by 1 firm might be luck; but if you strikeout it's probably more than just chance. That's partly why I think at a certain point doing more screeners at EIP doesn't add a lot of value. If you're on your 30th screener, you're banking on getting lucky enough to find a firm that overlooks your weaknesses. What you really need is time to reevaluate and figure out what you're doing wrong. It's hard to do that during the four days of EIP.

[jbagelboy]

Are 38 screeners at EIP too many? 11/11/9/7. Concerned that I will be exhausted by the time interview 9/10 comes around and some of my top choices are scheduled for the end of the day.

I mean, everyone's different but I think around 20 is typical? I'd also think about whether you think you really need to do 38 screeners to find the one job you'll actually take. I did 24 screeners and I thought that was too much--not because of fatigue but just because some ended up being a waste of time.

That's just hindsight talking. If you hadn't received any offers you'd be singing a different tune.

Maybe, but I don't think so. I think people tend to get more worked up about EIP than they should, especially on TLS. If you strike out, it's not the end of the world; it just means you have to hustle harder.

I disagree that the people who strikeout are "unlucky." Getting turned down by 1 firm might be luck; but if you strikeout it's probably more than just chance. That's partly why I think at a certain point doing more screeners at EIP doesn't add a lot of value. If you're on your 30th screener, you're banking on getting lucky enough to find a firm that overlooks your weaknesses. What you really need is time to reevaluate and figure out what you're doing wrong. It's hard to do that during the four days of EIP.

I join the chorus in disagreeing with this. If you don't have the grades, maximize interviews. This is your best shot and yeah there's a big difference between 20 and 30. If you're Stone and above, sure, more than 20 interviews is a waste of time and there are diminishing returns. But most of the class isn't in that boat. If you're sitting below median then THIS IS YOUR TIME! They are giving you interviews -- take them.

[Anonymous User]

Couple EIP questions

1. What do we do if we have like a 3 or 4 hour break between interviews? It hardly seems worth heading back to Morningside Heights (it will be SO HOT and we are in suits/dresses) but I also don't want to just sit in the double tree all day...

2. How does the "day of" lottery work?

Top five bougiest things I've ever done, but I went in with like six friends on a suite at the Doubletree. We paid for one night and got early check-in and late check-out, so essentially got the room for two days (this was back when the interviews used to go Thursday-Friday, Monday-Tuesday so that's all we needed).

It was nice to have a place to chill, watch TV and hang out with friends in between interviews.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I disagree that the people who strikeout are "unlucky." Getting turned down by 1 firm might be luck; but if you strikeout it's probably more than just chance. That's partly why I think at a certain point doing more screeners at EIP doesn't add a lot of value. If you're on your 30th screener, you're banking on getting lucky enough to find a firm that overlooks your weaknesses. What you really need is time to reevaluate and figure out what you're doing wrong. It's hard to do that during the four days of EIP.

Look, some percent of the class is Stone-plus and is additionally charismatic/likeable, and that group will clean up a pile of offers like it always does. But that's not the majority. Something like a third of EIP participants will have either zero or one offer. And for marginal candidates, the difference between zero and one (which is a hell of a lot more important than the difference between one and ten) is going to involve a certain degree of luck. Sorry, it's unavoidably a little bit of a raffle. That's why we tell people to get as many "tickets" as possible. So yeah, there's no shame in "banking on getting lucky enough to find a firm that overlooks your weaknesses." That's how a lot of people get hired. You just have to try as often as you possibly can.

That does NOT mean students shouldn't be trying to improve their performance any way they can. Historically, most students tend to think they're better interviewers than they really are. Every year, I tell TLS students, who are not usually prom kings and Fonzies in the charisma department, to go and do practice interviews with anyone who will listen--OCS, outside consultants, your friends and family, and, when no one's around, your mirror--until you're blue in the face. And that's not just substance, but overall presentation--body language, dress, handshake, tone, pitch, gestures, facial expressions, eye contact, etc.

Those things are not mutually exclusive. You can maximize your chances in the interviews and also take as many bites at the apple as they'll give you. Trust me, looking back from your job at how you overprepared for EIP will be a lot funnier in a few years than looking back from the Vale at how you underprepared.

[Anonymous User]

Who do we address cover letters to? The interviewers? To whom it may concern? The hiring committee?

What kind of things are we supposed to say? Are they supposed to be detailed, like a job or more barebones, like a clerkship?

[Anonymous User]

Who do we address cover letters to? The interviewers? To whom it may concern? The hiring committee?

What kind of things are we supposed to say? Are they supposed to be detailed, like a job or more barebones, like a clerkship?

There are firms that want cover letters?

I'd address it to the hiring partners or maybe just "Firm XXX Hiring Committee." Interviewers frequently change day-of, so that's probably not the best option

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, 5 of my firms want cover letters (and I think there are a bunch of them that do).

Im just at a loss as to what to say other than I want to work here next summer. pleae hire me.

[RSN]

I addressed my cover letters to the head of recruiting, which I pulled from the firm websites or NALP. For content I put the standard "I write to express my strong interest in a summer associate position" at the top and then wrote a paragraph on my practice areas of interest and my experiences over the 1L summer. Got CBs for those firms, so guess they were fine.

[Anonymous User]

Do people only do one callback a day? Or is it possible to do two? I have a wedding that I can't skip the third week of august and am worried about scheduling...

[GoneSouth]

Do people only do one callback a day? Or is it possible to do two? I have a wedding that I can't skip the third week of august and am worried about scheduling...

It can be possible to do two in one day, but I'd say it's advisable only if you have a firm that does evening callbacks (like Skadden) and can pair it with a morning callback with another firm. Trying to do morning/afternoon can be tough because you never know how long they'll last.

How many days are you going to be gone for the wedding? You should still have plenty of time for callbacks.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid two callbacks in a day if you can. Timing aside, it's just exhausting. I recall finishing one callback then running into McDonalds wolfing down a McWrap then running to the next callback with 10 minutes to spare.

This kind of craziness is not really conducive to achieving top performance in these interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Little late to ask, but should I pack my laptop tomorrow for any reason?

The e-mail we got today said there was wifi on the 6th floor

~Day before jitters