Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

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Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:16 pm

Rising 2L at a lower T14 (not Cornell. Think UVA/Duke/Mich/NW). Recently got my 1L grades, and my gpa is below median. (I'd say above bottom third based on the curve)

I have some non-legal work experiences before law school, and I'm working as a 1L SA at a non-NY, Am Law 200 firm through a diversity program.

Do I still have a chance at getting a big law offer from NYC? I don't have any ties to NY, but I was told that NY is the largest employer for my school.
I'd also be grateful for any advice on what to do in terms of networking/mass mailing and bidding for OCI.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:24 pm

This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:32 pm

lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Anon here. Just added an extra note about my school. I don't want to make it too specific though, so I'll also try to contact my adviser for more advice. Thanks.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Anon here. Just added an extra note about my school. I don't want to make it too specific though, so I'll also try to contact my adviser for more advice. Thanks.

If it's Duke, I know for a fact that your adviser has already sent you information regarding this stuff, and firms offer to sub-median regularly (according to the stats). Again, OCI strategy will depend on what your grades actually are compared to the threshold for firms that come to your OCI. As far as networking/mass mailing, those are never grade specific, they're a "just do it" thing.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:49 pm

It's absolutely possible and NYC firms will dip below median at schools in that range pretty regularly. Your job is to bid smartly and target less grade sensitive firms that are at your OCI. Your CSO has this information, and will provide it for you readily when they choose to (or alternatively when you ask for it). But just to be safe, you should probably also bid a few firms in your non-NYC market where you have your SA and you should absolutely do everything in your power to get an offer from your current firm so you won't have the added stress of striking out at OCI.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:00 pm

Yes. You're at a school where over 60% of the class goes into biglaw, and you even have a 1L SA already. Kind of odd to think you may have no chance just because you're below median.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:46 pm

Lavitz wrote:Yes. You're at a school where over 60% of the class goes into biglaw, and you even have a 1L SA already. Kind of odd to think you may have no chance just because you're below median.


Thanks for the encouragement. I'll make sure to bid strategically, reach out to firms in NY, and do my best to secure an offer from my current firm.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:49 pm

UVA2B wrote:It's absolutely possible and NYC firms will dip below median at schools in that range pretty regularly. Your job is to bid smartly and target less grade sensitive firms that are at your OCI. Your CSO has this information, and will provide it for you readily when they choose to (or alternatively when you ask for it). But just to be safe, you should probably also bid a few firms in your non-NYC market where you have your SA and you should absolutely do everything in your power to get an offer from your current firm so you won't have the added stress of striking out at OCI.

Thanks for the advice!

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby runinthefront » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:51 pm

lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Nah. This is pretty answerable. Below median at a T13 still gives you a pretty decent shot at NYC biglaw. It'll just come down to interviewing ability. There would be no NYC biglaw without a large amount of below-median T13ers filling the ranks.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:54 pm

runinthefront wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Nah. This is pretty answerable. Below median at a non-T14 still gives you a pretty decent shot at NYC biglaw. It'll just come down to interviewing ability. There would be no NYC biglaw without a large amount of below-median T14ers filling the ranks.


This was accidental, right? Cause realistically only T14 (or T13 or whatever) can rely on being below median and having NYC open to you.

I'm pretty sure you just meant NYC relies on T14 below median to fill their classes, but wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your point.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby runinthefront » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:54 pm

UVA2B wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Nah. This is pretty answerable. Below median at a non-T14 still gives you a pretty decent shot at NYC biglaw. It'll just come down to interviewing ability. There would be no NYC biglaw without a large amount of below-median T14ers filling the ranks.


This was accidental, right? Cause realistically only T14 (or T13 or whatever) can rely on being below median and having NYC open to you.

I'm pretty sure you just meant NYC relies on T14 below median to fill their classes, but wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your point.

accidental.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:00 am

runinthefront wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Nah. This is pretty answerable. Below median at a non-T14 still gives you a pretty decent shot at NYC biglaw. It'll just come down to interviewing ability. There would be no NYC biglaw without a large amount of below-median T14ers filling the ranks.


This was accidental, right? Cause realistically only T14 (or T13 or whatever) can rely on being below median and having NYC open to you.

I'm pretty sure you just meant NYC relies on T14 below median to fill their classes, but wanted to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your point.

accidental.


Thanks. Good to know that being below median at a T14/13 school still leaves the door open for some NYC biglaw.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby lymenheimer » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:13 am

runinthefront wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:This question is almost unanswerable. For instance, it matters what school you are at. Regardless, your CSO should have a bunch of information regarding OCI and bidding, including grade distributions for firms coming to OCI.

Nah. This is pretty answerable. Below median at a T13 still gives you a pretty decent shot at NYC biglaw. It'll just come down to interviewing ability. There would be no NYC biglaw without a large amount of below-median T13ers filling the ranks.

Sure. the question in the title is answerable: yes it's possible. But op was of course fishing for more than just that, which is the unanswerable part because we don't know the pertinent information.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby rpupkin » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:55 am

NYC big law was invented for those who are below median at lower T14s. How do you think Cornell and Penn maintain relatively high BL placement numbers?

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Peck.173 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:13 am

Duke 2/3L here:

Plenty of people my year got BL with below median. You just have to be smart about it. You're right to target NY. Those who missed out on big law entirely seemed to have focused all their bids on tougher markets (Chicago, SF, etc.).

Good luck!

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby 1styearlateral » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:03 am

If "below median" is a 3.2, then yeah of course. Reach out to alums.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby notgreat » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:37 pm

Also, give more consideration to whether NYC big law is really what you want.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby runinthefront » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:40 pm

notgreat wrote:Also, give more consideration to whether NYC big law is really what you want.

I assume you mean "give more consideration to whether biglaw is really what you want." If OP is deciding to go the OCI route, his bidlist should be filled with NY firms, regardless of what biglaw market he really wants. He can massmail those other markets.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby notgreat » Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:23 pm

runinthefront wrote:
notgreat wrote:Also, give more consideration to whether NYC big law is really what you want.

I assume you mean "give more consideration to whether biglaw is really what you want." If OP is deciding to go the OCI route, his bidlist should be filled with NY firms, regardless of what biglaw market he really wants. He can massmail those other markets.


Sure, but big law somewhere else might be tolerable enough that it makes sense to go through OCI and gun for big law outside of NYC even if you decide NYC big law isn't worth it. I understand that comes with major risks. But after having been in OP's shoes and getting NYC big law I am not sure having a job in NYC big law is better than gunning hard for PI/gov't or straight dropping out.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:15 pm

I was fairly below median at UVA/Duke and got DC big law. Was a lot of hustle and networking but miracles can happen.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:26 pm

Peck.173 wrote:Duke 2/3L here:

Plenty of people my year got BL with below median. You just have to be smart about it. You're right to target NY. Those who missed out on big law entirely seemed to have focused all their bids on tougher markets (Chicago, SF, etc.).

Good luck!


I'll definitely bid heavily in NY firms. Thanks!

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:29 pm

notgreat wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
notgreat wrote:Also, give more consideration to whether NYC big law is really what you want.

I assume you mean "give more consideration to whether biglaw is really what you want." If OP is deciding to go the OCI route, his bidlist should be filled with NY firms, regardless of what biglaw market he really wants. He can massmail those other markets.


Sure, but big law somewhere else might be tolerable enough that it makes sense to go through OCI and gun for big law outside of NYC even if you decide NYC big law isn't worth it. I understand that comes with major risks. But after having been in OP's shoes and getting NYC big law I am not sure having a job in NYC big law is better than gunning hard for PI/gov't or straight dropping out.


OP here. For personal (significant other) reasons and career plans I have, I'm willing to try NYC biglaw for at least a few years even if I don't find myself enjoying it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I'd also love to hear more about what made you feel that way about NYC big law.

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I was fairly below median at UVA/Duke and got DC big law. Was a lot of hustle and networking but miracles can happen.


OP here. That's amazing! I will definitely try to reach out to alums in NYC, but I guess I won't be able to visit NY over the summer because of my summer job now. Could you share any tips for networking?

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby SplitMyPants » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I was fairly below median at UVA/Duke and got DC big law. Was a lot of hustle and networking but miracles can happen.


OP here. That's amazing! I will definitely try to reach out to alums in NYC, but I guess I won't be able to visit NY over the summer because of my summer job now. Could you share any tips for networking?


find alumni at various firms that went to your school and email them. say youre extremely interested in NYC and would love to talk to them about any tips or advice they have on interviewing, OCI, various practice groups, etc. different aged alumni will serve different purposes. for example, young associates are great for a frank discussion of their firm, the OCI/bidding process, etc. on the flip side, its weirder and harder to have such a discussion with an older associate or partner; however, theres a possibility they may be on some hiring committee or something... that is to say, all alumni have their networking benefits. not just partners or not just young associates.
(also, depending on your undergrad, you could search based on that, too. i went to an undergrad where it was pretty rare for people to go to law school, so sometimes that was a great connection to find, too)

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Re: Below median at lower T14, is NYC biglaw possible?

Postby ZVBXRPL » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:46 pm

Where on this site are various firms' GPA requirements? Or perhaps someone can post a sample.



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