Northwestern OCI 2017

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:08 pm

Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.71, transactional(tax/tech transaction/corporate) only, interested in both SoCal & NYC and no interest in Chi at all. Some decent(though not long) working experience. All suggestions appreciated.
*Hv secured screeners/cbs with MoFo, Baker, Shearman & STB through OTIP/networking and as those firms do not allow multiple interviews, I am not bidding for them in OCI.

1 Fenwick & West Mountain View CA 20
2 Davis Polk NYC NY 20
3 Cooley Santa Monica CA 40
4 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NYC NY 40
5 Pilsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman San Francisco CA 20
6 Wilson Sosini Goodrich & Rosati Palo Alto CA 40
7 O'Melven Myers Menlo Park CA 20
8 Goodwin Procter Menlo Park CA 20
9 Paul Hastings Palo Alto CA 20
10 Winston & Strawn NYC NY 20
11 Goodwin Procter Boston MA 20
12 Weil Gosthal & Manges Redwood City CA 20
13 Skadden NYC NY 20
14 Proskauer NYC NY 20
15 Cravath Swaine & Moore NYC NY 40
16 Paul Weiss NYC NY 40
17 Sullivan & Cromwell NYC NY 40
18 Mayer Brown NYC NY 20
19 Sidley Austin NYC NY 20
20 Kirkland & Ellis NYC NY 20
21 Milbank NYC NY 40
22 DLA Piper Palo Alto C 60
23 White & Case NYC NY 20
24 Weil Gosthal & Manges NYC NY 60
25 Ropes & Gray Palo Alto CA 40
26 Latham & Watkins Hong Kong HK 11


San Francisco is in Northern California not SoCal. If you made that mistake in an interview you might get dinged. Your teens look risky and idk how many of those firms you'll get. I would remove Goodwin Boston since you're already bidding a different office (even if it's allowed). Winston seems high but I haven't seem the GPA data recently and it looks like you might be on the GPA border for some of the V10 NY firms.


Thanks! The SoCal thing is totally my fault.... Thank you for pointing this out! So by GPA border, are you referring to the median of callbacks of those firms? If so, yeah, My GPA is a little lower than the median of several V10 NY firms (I believe DPW, Cravath, Skadden hv mediansof around 3.72~3.74, and S&C's is even higher). Would it be too risky to bid on too many of those V10 firms? Cuz I would definitely prefer SF/PA/Menlo Park to NY if I cannot get a V10.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:36 pm

3.81, Litigation, SF/NY. I have CBs with STB and PW. OTIP Screeners with PH, MOFO, APKS, JD, Shearman, Baker McKenzie, Skadden PA. Trying to get some more Pre-OCI interviews before bids are due. My focus has been on getting interviews at 1-15, and after around 20 are throwaways. All suggestions welcome! Thanks.

1. Latham (SF) (11)
2. Skadden (NY) (20)
3. Davis Polk (NY) (20)
4. Kirkland (SF) (20)
5. Cooley (SF) (40)
6. Sidley (SF) (10)
7. Weil (NY) (60)
8. OMM (SF) (20)
9. WSGR (SF) (40)
10. Perkins Coie (SF) (20)
11. Fenwick (SF) (20)
12. Cleary Gottleib (NY) (40)
13. Cravath (NY) (40)
14. SullCrom (NY) (40)
15. Allen & Overy (NY) (20)
16. Freshfields (NY) (20)
17. Irell & Manella (LA) (20)
18. Ropes Gray (SF) (40)
19. Mayer Brown (SV) (11)
20. Willkie Farr (NY) (40)
21. Winston & Strawn (SF) (60)
22. Foley & Lardner (SF) (20)
23. Holland & Knight (SF) (20)
24. Pillsbury Winthrop (SF) (20)
25. Wilmerhale (DC) (20)
26. White & Case (NY) (20)
27. Williams & Connolly (DC) (20)
28. Goodwin Proctor (SF) (20)
29. Cahill Gordon (NY) (20)
30. Crowell & Moring (NY) (20)
31. Baker Botts (DC) (20)
32. DLA Piper (SF) (60)
33. Cadwalader (NY) (40)
34. Baker Hostetler (NY) (20)
35. Fried Frank (NY) (40)
36. Covington (DC) (20)

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm

3.68, all ties in Chicago and only looking there, LR, only looking for transactional work, specifically M&A, PE or real estate. Already have an offer at a Chicago firm -- this list is only firms I would consider over that one. Really want at least a screener/facetime with 1-7. Thanks for the advice.

1) Sidley (80)
2) Kirkland (80)
3) Latham (60)
4) Winston (60)
5) Skadden (60)
6) Jenner (60)
7) Mayer (40)
8) Jones Day (40)
9) DLA (60)
10) McDermott (80)

User avatar
star fox
Posts: 18761
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:13 pm

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby star fox » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:03 pm

Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.8 - litigation. Chicago is top choice - i grew up in the burbs. NYC is second market, but I was fortunate that I have already had or scheduled several callbacks with firms there, and was lucky enough to land one offer so far. So, I'm only bidding Sull Crom because that would be the only other firm i'd consider outside of those I've already interviewed with. In DC i am swinging for the fences.

Any reason to think I should be bidding the Chicago firms with 20 interview slots, like Perkins or Foley, past 10 or would that just be a waste?

is it okay bid Sidley D.C. and Latham D.C too? I don't wanna seem like I'm really looking to leave town to those firm's Chicago offices.

1. Mayer brown (LIT) (20)
2. Katten (40)
3. Sidley Austin (80)
4. Jones day (40)
5. Kirkland (80)
6. Skadden (60)
7. Jenner (60)
8. Latham (60)
9. Sull Crom NYC (40)
10. Winston (60)
11. Mcdermott Will & Emory (80)
12. Cleary DC (20)
13. Wilmer Hale DC (20)
14. Covington DC (20)
15. Hogan and Lovells DC (20)
16. Williams and Connelly (20)
17. Barak ferrazano (40)


Congrats on the early offer. This looks pretty good to me based on my experience. You might miss one or two of the firms in your top 11 if things shake out weird this year but that's just the nature of the game. Between the top 8, I would think that you'd get an offer somewhere since you seem to be a decent interviewer and have real ties to Chicago. If you're pretty set on Chicago, then you should bump up Barrack just to make sure you get an interview. It has high callback GPA data but sometimes it goes higher than you'd expect because it's in Chicago. Might as well put all the 20 spot Chicago firms at the bottom of your list and email them as soon as bid results coming out asking if they can fit you into their schedule.

Just want to add that an early offer means you can be a bit more aggressive than you would otherwise.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:51 pm

Can anyone tell me what's the lowest you can generally bid the top Chicago firms and still get them? Specifically:

Kirkland
Sidley
Mayer
Jenner
Skadden
Latham
Winston

FloridaCoastalorbust
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone tell me what's the lowest you can generally bid the top Chicago firms and still get them? Specifically:

Kirkland
Sidley
Mayer
Jenner
Skadden
Latham
Winston


Your best bet is to look through the old OCI threads. Ppl occasionally post their bid lists after OCI.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3.68, all ties in Chicago and only looking there, LR, only looking for transactional work, specifically M&A, PE or real estate. Already have an offer at a Chicago firm -- this list is only firms I would consider over that one. Really want at least a screener/facetime with 1-7. Thanks for the advice.

1) Sidley (80)
2) Kirkland (80)
3) Latham (60)
4) Winston (60)
5) Skadden (60)
6) Jenner (60)
7) Mayer (40)
8) Jones Day (40)
9) DLA (60)
10) McDermott (80)


I might replace Mayer with Latham bc less spots and less competitive bidding. Otherwise great list. Congrats on the offer - don't drink the firm's kool-aid just yet tho.

gatorade_potato
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby gatorade_potato » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone tell me what's the lowest you can generally bid the top Chicago firms and still get them? Specifically:

Kirkland
Sidley
Mayer
Jenner
Skadden
Latham
Winston


It's honestly kind of a crapshoot based largely on how many people in your year are gunning for Chicago as their main/only market (which is of course different for every class). Still, I would say you definitely need them in your top 10, as most people at our OCI put some Chicago firms as a secondary or tertiary market.

Generally speaking, the mid-tier firms (Katten, Foley, Baker & McKenzie, McDermott, DLA, Schiff) will all likely go within 1–3 given their low GPA cutoffs. You can probably safely get at least a couple of the firms you listed between 4–7 and maybe one more between 8–10 if you're lucky. The one exception historically is Winston, which usually goes in the early/mid-teens IIRC.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:08 pm

gatorade_potato wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone tell me what's the lowest you can generally bid the top Chicago firms and still get them? Specifically:

Kirkland
Sidley
Mayer
Jenner
Skadden
Latham
Winston


It's honestly kind of a crapshoot based largely on how many people in your year are gunning for Chicago as their main/only market (which is of course different for every class). Still, I would say you definitely need them in your top 10, as most people at our OCI put some Chicago firms as a secondary or tertiary market.

Generally speaking, the mid-tier firms (Katten, Foley, Baker & McKenzie, McDermott, DLA, Schiff) will all likely go within 1–3 given their low GPA cutoffs. You can probably safely get at least a couple of the firms you listed between 4–7 and maybe one more between 8–10 if you're lucky. The one exception historically is Winston, which usually goes in the early/mid-teens IIRC.


I understand Katten, Baker, and DLA Piper virtually never go outside the top 3, but I'm curious what makes you say that about McDermott and Schiff, which went at least 15 and 10 respectively last year and at least 16 and 12 two years ago (per the TLS threads for 2016 and 2015).

gatorade_potato
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:39 pm

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby gatorade_potato » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
gatorade_potato wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone tell me what's the lowest you can generally bid the top Chicago firms and still get them? Specifically:

Kirkland
Sidley
Mayer
Jenner
Skadden
Latham
Winston


It's honestly kind of a crapshoot based largely on how many people in your year are gunning for Chicago as their main/only market (which is of course different for every class). Still, I would say you definitely need them in your top 10, as most people at our OCI put some Chicago firms as a secondary or tertiary market.

Generally speaking, the mid-tier firms (Katten, Foley, Baker & McKenzie, McDermott, DLA, Schiff) will all likely go within 1–3 given their low GPA cutoffs. You can probably safely get at least a couple of the firms you listed between 4–7 and maybe one more between 8–10 if you're lucky. The one exception historically is Winston, which usually goes in the early/mid-teens IIRC.


I understand Katten, Baker, and DLA Piper virtually never go outside the top 3, but I'm curious what makes you say that about McDermott and Schiff, which went at least 15 and 10 respectively last year and at least 16 and 12 two years ago (per the TLS threads for 2016 and 2015).


Oh interesting—guess I'm misremembering which firms are always gobbled up in the top 3-5. Definitely go with the previous data points over my (clearly) bad memory lol.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:44 pm

3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

1 Ropes & Gray LLP (20) Chicago
2 Foley & Lardner LLP (20) Chicago
3 Bryan Cave LLP (20) Chicago
4 Jones Day (40) Chicago
5 Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP (20) Chicago
6 Fox Rothschild (20) Chicago
7 Quarles & Brady LLP (20) Chicago
8 Schiff Hardin LLP (40) Chicago
9 Nixon Peabody LLP (20) Chicago
10 Greenberg Traurig LLP (20) Chicago
11 McGuireWoods LLP (20) Chicago
12 Locke Lord LLP (20) Chicago
13 Holland & Knight LLP (20) Chicago
14 Reed Smith LLP (20) Chicago
15 Sidley Austin LLP (80) Chicago
16 Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP (17) Chicago
17 Frost Brown Todd LLC (11) Indianapolis
18 Steptoe & Johnson LLP (20) Chicago
19 Faegre Baker Daniels (20) Chicago
20 Taft Stettinius & Hollister (11) Chicago
21 Ice Miller (20) Chicago
22 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (80) Chicago
23 Barnes & Thornburg (9) Chicago
24 Lewis Rice LLC (11) St. Louis
25 Mayer Brown (20) Chicago
26 Barack Ferrazzono (40) Chicago
27 Latham & Watkins LLP (60) Chicago
28 Skadden (60)
29 Husch Blackwell LLP (9)
30 Cozen O Connor (20)
31 Polsinelli (20)
32 Thompson Coburn LLP (20)
33 Baker & Hostetler LLP (20) Columbus
34 Baker McKenzie LLP (20)
35 Dentons (11)
36 Dinsmore & Shohl LLP (18)
37 DLA Piper LLP (60)
38 Donohue Brown Mathewson & Smyth (20)
39 Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP (20)
40 Paul Hastings (20)

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

1 Ropes & Gray LLP (20) Chicago
2 Foley & Lardner LLP (20) Chicago
3 Bryan Cave LLP (20) Chicago
4 Jones Day (40) Chicago
5 Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP (20) Chicago
6 Fox Rothschild (20) Chicago
7 Quarles & Brady LLP (20) Chicago
8 Schiff Hardin LLP (40) Chicago
9 Nixon Peabody LLP (20) Chicago
10 Greenberg Traurig LLP (20) Chicago
11 McGuireWoods LLP (20) Chicago
12 Locke Lord LLP (20) Chicago
13 Holland & Knight LLP (20) Chicago
14 Reed Smith LLP (20) Chicago
15 Sidley Austin LLP (80) Chicago
16 Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP (17) Chicago
17 Frost Brown Todd LLC (11) Indianapolis
18 Steptoe & Johnson LLP (20) Chicago
19 Faegre Baker Daniels (20) Chicago
20 Taft Stettinius & Hollister (11) Chicago
21 Ice Miller (20) Chicago
22 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (80) Chicago
23 Barnes & Thornburg (9) Chicago
24 Lewis Rice LLC (11) St. Louis
25 Mayer Brown (20) Chicago
26 Barack Ferrazzono (40) Chicago
27 Latham & Watkins LLP (60) Chicago
28 Skadden (60)
29 Husch Blackwell LLP (9)
30 Cozen O Connor (20)
31 Polsinelli (20)
32 Thompson Coburn LLP (20)
33 Baker & Hostetler LLP (20) Columbus
34 Baker McKenzie LLP (20)
35 Dentons (11)
36 Dinsmore & Shohl LLP (18)
37 DLA Piper LLP (60)
38 Donohue Brown Mathewson & Smyth (20)
39 Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP (20)
40 Paul Hastings (20)


A bunch of Schiff partners left recently. That's something to think about maybe at the callback stage or when you're weighing offers

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Mullens » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

1 Ropes & Gray LLP (20) Chicago
2 Foley & Lardner LLP (20) Chicago
3 Bryan Cave LLP (20) Chicago
4 Jones Day (40) Chicago
5 Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP (20) Chicago
6 Fox Rothschild (20) Chicago
7 Quarles & Brady LLP (20) Chicago
8 Schiff Hardin LLP (40) Chicago
9 Nixon Peabody LLP (20) Chicago
10 Greenberg Traurig LLP (20) Chicago
11 McGuireWoods LLP (20) Chicago
12 Locke Lord LLP (20) Chicago
13 Holland & Knight LLP (20) Chicago
14 Reed Smith LLP (20) Chicago
15 Sidley Austin LLP (80) Chicago
16 Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP (17) Chicago
17 Frost Brown Todd LLC (11) Indianapolis
18 Steptoe & Johnson LLP (20) Chicago
19 Faegre Baker Daniels (20) Chicago
20 Taft Stettinius & Hollister (11) Chicago
21 Ice Miller (20) Chicago
22 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (80) Chicago
23 Barnes & Thornburg (9) Chicago
24 Lewis Rice LLC (11) St. Louis
25 Mayer Brown (20) Chicago
26 Barack Ferrazzono (40) Chicago
27 Latham & Watkins LLP (60) Chicago
28 Skadden (60)
29 Husch Blackwell LLP (9)
30 Cozen O Connor (20)
31 Polsinelli (20)
32 Thompson Coburn LLP (20)
33 Baker & Hostetler LLP (20) Columbus
34 Baker McKenzie LLP (20)
35 Dentons (11)
36 Dinsmore & Shohl LLP (18)
37 DLA Piper LLP (60)
38 Donohue Brown Mathewson & Smyth (20)
39 Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP (20)
40 Paul Hastings (20)


My main concern with your strategy is that the "elite" firms you bumped down your bid list usually have the biggest summer classes. I recommend you do some research on summer class sizes to optimize your bidding strategy. This might require some deep digging and research but it should pay off (you should be able to find this info on NALP). I think there's something like a total 300 summer associate positions in Chicago every year and the firms you bumped down your bid list make up a good portion of that total. The way this is ordered, you probably won't get interviews at Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, Latham, Baker, or Mayer Brown and that's like half of the entire market's SA class.

I think you should try to optimize your chances of getting a job over getting OCI screeners. For example, you might get a screener at Barrack at 26, but there's almost no chance you get a job there. They take like 2-3 summers total a year and usually those summers have 3.9+ GPAs. I know Husch Blackwell is low on your list, but they had 1 SA total in 2016 and didn't give a full-time offer to that student (per NALP). Things like that should affect your bidding. Your GPA is in range for the "elite" firms based on my recollection so it might make more sense to bid them than not.

RaceJudicata
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:51 pm

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby RaceJudicata » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:49 pm

Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

1 Ropes & Gray LLP (20) Chicago
2 Foley & Lardner LLP (20) Chicago
3 Bryan Cave LLP (20) Chicago
4 Jones Day (40) Chicago
5 Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP (20) Chicago
6 Fox Rothschild (20) Chicago
7 Quarles & Brady LLP (20) Chicago
8 Schiff Hardin LLP (40) Chicago
9 Nixon Peabody LLP (20) Chicago
10 Greenberg Traurig LLP (20) Chicago
11 McGuireWoods LLP (20) Chicago
12 Locke Lord LLP (20) Chicago
13 Holland & Knight LLP (20) Chicago
14 Reed Smith LLP (20) Chicago
15 Sidley Austin LLP (80) Chicago
16 Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP (17) Chicago
17 Frost Brown Todd LLC (11) Indianapolis
18 Steptoe & Johnson LLP (20) Chicago
19 Faegre Baker Daniels (20) Chicago
20 Taft Stettinius & Hollister (11) Chicago
21 Ice Miller (20) Chicago
22 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (80) Chicago
23 Barnes & Thornburg (9) Chicago
24 Lewis Rice LLC (11) St. Louis
25 Mayer Brown (20) Chicago
26 Barack Ferrazzono (40) Chicago
27 Latham & Watkins LLP (60) Chicago
28 Skadden (60)
29 Husch Blackwell LLP (9)
30 Cozen O Connor (20)
31 Polsinelli (20)
32 Thompson Coburn LLP (20)
33 Baker & Hostetler LLP (20) Columbus
34 Baker McKenzie LLP (20)
35 Dentons (11)
36 Dinsmore & Shohl LLP (18)
37 DLA Piper LLP (60)
38 Donohue Brown Mathewson & Smyth (20)
39 Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP (20)
40 Paul Hastings (20)


My main concern with your strategy is that the "elite" firms you bumped down your bid list usually have the biggest summer classes. I recommend you do some research on summer class sizes to optimize your bidding strategy. This might require some deep digging and research but it should pay off (you should be able to find this info on NALP). I think there's something like a total 300 summer associate positions in Chicago every year and the firms you bumped down your bid list make up a good portion of that total. The way this is ordered, you probably won't get interviews at Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, Latham, Baker, or Mayer Brown and that's like half of the entire market's SA class.

I think you should try to optimize your chances of getting a job over getting OCI screeners. For example, you might get a screener at Barrack at 26, but there's almost no chance you get a job there. They take like 2-3 summers total a year and usually those summers have 3.9+ GPAs. I know Husch Blackwell is low on your list, but they had 1 SA total in 2016 and didn't give a full-time offer to that student (per NALP). Things like that should affect your bidding. Your GPA is in range for the "elite" firms based on my recollection so it might make more sense to bid them than not.


Non-NW so take w/ grain of salt. Totally agree w/ above poster. Of your top 10 bids, those firms have a total of 25~ SAs (or less). And more than half of that total are at Jones Day.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:04 pm

Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

(edited for length)


My main concern with your strategy is that the "elite" firms you bumped down your bid list usually have the biggest summer classes. I recommend you do some research on summer class sizes to optimize your bidding strategy. This might require some deep digging and research but it should pay off (you should be able to find this info on NALP). I think there's something like a total 300 summer associate positions in Chicago every year and the firms you bumped down your bid list make up a good portion of that total. The way this is ordered, you probably won't get interviews at Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, Latham, Baker, or Mayer Brown and that's like half of the entire market's SA class.

I think you should try to optimize your chances of getting a job over getting OCI screeners. For example, you might get a screener at Barrack at 26, but there's almost no chance you get a job there. They take like 2-3 summers total a year and usually those summers have 3.9+ GPAs. I know Husch Blackwell is low on your list, but they had 1 SA total in 2016 and didn't give a full-time offer to that student (per NALP). Things like that should affect your bidding. Your GPA is in range for the "elite" firms based on my recollection so it might make more sense to bid them than not.

Thanks! I certainly would rather have a job than not, but it's tough for me to pick which of the smaller firms I want to shove down in their place. I guess I'd be much happier in a smaller place, so I was bidding accordingly. Would you recommend adding a few of Sidley, Skadden, Latham, etc. into my top 10? If so, any thoughts on what might be good to bump out/down?

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:42 pm

After taking into account interview spots, is the general theory that we should be bidding firms with larger SA classes higher up?

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Mullens » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:After taking into account interview spots, is the general theory that we should be bidding firms with larger SA classes higher up?


It's one factor to consider but I don't think it should be the primary one. You should probably pay more attention to the callback GPA data. Sullivan and Cromwell has a large summer class but I don't think they'd give a callback to anyone below median. So fewer people will bid S&C. People will bid the less selective firms much higher because by definition half of the class is around/below median.

The smaller the market, the more you should pay attention to class size.

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Mullens » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.6, Chicago lit. As you'll see, I'm not too concerned about trying to end up in one of the "elite" firms. Should I remove some of them entirely? Just trying to maximize my number of interviews. Please help re: moving things up and down!

(edited for length)


My main concern with your strategy is that the "elite" firms you bumped down your bid list usually have the biggest summer classes. I recommend you do some research on summer class sizes to optimize your bidding strategy. This might require some deep digging and research but it should pay off (you should be able to find this info on NALP). I think there's something like a total 300 summer associate positions in Chicago every year and the firms you bumped down your bid list make up a good portion of that total. The way this is ordered, you probably won't get interviews at Kirkland, Sidley, Skadden, Latham, Baker, or Mayer Brown and that's like half of the entire market's SA class.

I think you should try to optimize your chances of getting a job over getting OCI screeners. For example, you might get a screener at Barrack at 26, but there's almost no chance you get a job there. They take like 2-3 summers total a year and usually those summers have 3.9+ GPAs. I know Husch Blackwell is low on your list, but they had 1 SA total in 2016 and didn't give a full-time offer to that student (per NALP). Things like that should affect your bidding. Your GPA is in range for the "elite" firms based on my recollection so it might make more sense to bid them than not.

Thanks! I certainly would rather have a job than not, but it's tough for me to pick which of the smaller firms I want to shove down in their place. I guess I'd be much happier in a smaller place, so I was bidding accordingly. Would you recommend adding a few of Sidley, Skadden, Latham, etc. into my top 10? If so, any thoughts on what might be good to bump out/down?


If you want to take this strategy because you'd be happier somewhere smaller, then I think you should do everything you can between now and OCI to set yourself up for success. If you haven't started already, you should try to network with associates at as many of these firms as possible and really hit the pavement so that firms are aware of your interest. Ask people to coffee or for informational phone calls to learn more about the firm. You want the firm to be aware of your interest before OCI (associates will likely let recruiting now you reached out) and to be able to express specific reasons you want to work at these firms ("based on talking with Sally Litigator, I think Ropes is the place for me because X,Y,Z") and also a good reason for why you want to work at these firms over the Sidleys, Skaddens, and Kirklands of Chicago (some places will be skeptical). Basically, if these firms are only going to hire a few people, you need to do everything you can to stand out in a positive way as possible.

The networking advice applies to anyone else reading this, but it's especially important for you if you want to pursue this strategy.

I think you should bump a couple for a few of the firms with bigger summer classes. I would decide based on summer class size/GPA data. Basically the odds you get a job somewhere (also could be informed by connections as noted above)

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:3.71, transactional(tax/tech transaction/corporate) only, interested in both SoCal & NYC and no interest in Chi at all. Some decent(though not long) working experience. All suggestions appreciated.
*Hv secured screeners/cbs with MoFo, Baker, Shearman & STB through OTIP/networking and as those firms do not allow multiple interviews, I am not bidding for them in OCI.

1 Fenwick & West Mountain View CA 20
2 Davis Polk NYC NY 20
3 Cooley Santa Monica CA 40
4 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NYC NY 40
5 Pilsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman San Francisco CA 20
6 Wilson Sosini Goodrich & Rosati Palo Alto CA 40
7 O'Melven Myers Menlo Park CA 20
8 Goodwin Procter Menlo Park CA 20
9 Paul Hastings Palo Alto CA 20
10 Winston & Strawn NYC NY 20
11 Goodwin Procter Boston MA 20
12 Weil Gosthal & Manges Redwood City CA 20
13 Skadden NYC NY 20
14 Proskauer NYC NY 20
15 Cravath Swaine & Moore NYC NY 40
16 Paul Weiss NYC NY 40
17 Sullivan & Cromwell NYC NY 40
18 Mayer Brown NYC NY 20
19 Sidley Austin NYC NY 20
20 Kirkland & Ellis NYC NY 20
21 Milbank NYC NY 40
22 DLA Piper Palo Alto C 60
23 White & Case NYC NY 20
24 Weil Gosthal & Manges NYC NY 60
25 Ropes & Gray Palo Alto CA 40
26 Latham & Watkins Hong Kong HK 11


San Francisco is in Northern California not SoCal. If you made that mistake in an interview you might get dinged. Your teens look risky and idk how many of those firms you'll get. I would remove Goodwin Boston since you're already bidding a different office (even if it's allowed). Winston seems high but I haven't seem the GPA data recently and it looks like you might be on the GPA border for some of the V10 NY firms.


Thanks! The SoCal thing is totally my fault.... Thank you for pointing this out! So by GPA border, are you referring to the median of callbacks of those firms? If so, yeah, My GPA is a little lower than the median of several V10 NY firms (I believe DPW, Cravath, Skadden hv mediansof around 3.72~3.74, and S&C's is even higher). Would it be too risky to bid on too many of those V10 firms? Cuz I would definitely prefer SF/PA/Menlo Park to NY if I cannot get a V10.


Revised bidding list:
1 Fenwick & West Mountain View CA 20
2 Cooley Santa Monica CA 40
3 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton NYC NY 40
4 Pilsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman San Francisco CA 20
5 Wilson Sosini Goodrich & Rosati Palo Alto CA 40
6 Paul Hastings Palo Alto CA 20
7 Sidley Austin NYC NY 20
8 Mayer Brown NYC NY 20
9 O'Melven Myers Menlo Park CA 20
10 Goodwin Procter Menlo Park CA 20
11 Ropes & Gray Palo Alto CA 40
12 Proskauer Rose NYC NY 20
13 Weil Gosthal & Manges NYC NY 60
14 Allen & Overy NYC NY 20
15 Winston & Strawn NYC NY 20
16 Skadden NYC NY 20
17 Cravath Swaine & Moore NYC NY 40
18 Sullivan & Cromwell NYC NY 40
19 Milbank NYC NY 40
20 Kirkland & Ellis NYC NY 20
21 DLA Piper Palo Alto CA 60
22 White & Case NYC NY 20

Some specific Qs:
1. I do want to interview with Cravath, S&C, Skadden and Weil but have heard ppl telling me that there's no need to bid those firms too high. - how high should I bid them?
2. For DLA Piper, White & Case, Winston & Kirkland - am I bidding them too low?
Too be accurate, my GPA is 3.714. Any critiques/suggestions appreciated.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:03 pm

3.77, only Chicago, focused on Real Estate or other transactional work. Thanks in advance for any input:

1 Latham 60
2 Sidley 80
3 Mayer Brown 40
4 Kirkland 80
5 Baker McKenzie 20
6 Skadden 60
7 McDermott 80
8 Winston 60
9 Jenner 60
10 DLA Piper 60
11 Greenberg 20
12 Katten 40
13 Morgan Lewis 20
14 Perkins Coie 20
15 Paul Hastings 20
16 McGuireWoods LLP 20
17 Nixon Peabody 20
18 Proskaur 29
19 Quarles & Brady 29
20 Dentons 11
21 Ropes & Gray 20
22 Vedder Price 20
23 Bryan Cave 20
24 Cozen O'Connor 20
25 Drinker Biddle 20
26 Dykema 9
27 Steptoe 20
28 Shook Hardy 17

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:52 am

Revised bid list with advice from here. Have a 3.5, targeting NY (mostly, some Chi) transactional.

1 Milbank (NY) 40
2 Proskauer (NY) 20
3 Baker & McKenzie 20, 20
4 Allen & Overy (NY) 20
5 DLA Piper (Chi) 60
6 Kirkland & Ellis (NY) 20
7 Sidley (NY) 20
8 Cahill (NY) 20
9 Fried (NY) 40
10 Shearman (NY) 40
11 Wilkiie Farr (NY) 40
12 Cadwalader (NY) 40
13 Dechert (NY) 20
14 Weil (NY) 60
15 Goodwin (NY) 20
16 Latham (NY) 20
17 Ropes Gray (NY) 40
18 Cravath (NY) 40
19 McDermott (Chi) 80
20 Paul Weiss (NY) 40
21 Baker Botts (NY) 20
22 Davis (NY) 20
23 Simpson (NY) 40
24 Seward (NY) 20
25 Faegre
27 Duane Morris (Chi) 20
28 Paul Hastings (NY) 20
29 Winston 20
30 Pillsbury (NY) 20
31 Pircher (Chi) 20
32 Reed Smith (Chi) 20
33 Wilmer Hale 20
34 Cleary (NY) 40
35 GT (Mia, NY) 20 (but CHI)
39 Arnold & Porter (NY) 20
40 Mayer Brown (NY) 20

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 857
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Mullens » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:3.77, only Chicago, focused on Real Estate or other transactional work. Thanks in advance for any input:

1 Latham 60
2 Sidley 80
3 Mayer Brown 40
4 Kirkland 80
5 Baker McKenzie 20
6 Skadden 60
7 McDermott 80
8 Winston 60
9 Jenner 60
10 DLA Piper 60
11 Greenberg 20
12 Katten 40
13 Morgan Lewis 20
14 Perkins Coie 20
15 Paul Hastings 20
16 McGuireWoods LLP 20
17 Nixon Peabody 20
18 Proskaur 29
19 Quarles & Brady 29
20 Dentons 11
21 Ropes & Gray 20
22 Vedder Price 20
23 Bryan Cave 20
24 Cozen O'Connor 20
25 Drinker Biddle 20
26 Dykema 9
27 Steptoe 20
28 Shook Hardy 17


Baker probably needs to be #1. It's likely a wasted bid at 5. You should bid Pircher Nichols, it's a real estate firm.

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:28 am

Ok, amended bid list. 3.89 GPA, moot court. I know I won't get Baker at the bottom, just a throwaway so I can send them my materials and say that I bid on them & didn't get a spot, just in case I start worrying about striking out a week in etc.

Once again, priorities are (in this order): (1) strong litigation practice, (2) location (DC>Chi>NYC), (3) culture (important, but I'm only planning on being there 3-5 years like most people).

1 Sidley Austin LLP (Chi)(80)
2 Latham & Watkins LLP (Chi)(60)
3 Kirkland & Ellis LLP (Chi)(80)
4 Jones Day (Chi)(40)
5 Jenner & Block LLP (Chi)(60)
6 Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom LLP and Affiliates (Chi)(60)
7 Mayer Brown LLP (Chi)(60 (20 lit., 40 transact.))
8 Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP (NYC)(60)
9 Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP (NYC)(40)
10 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP (NYC)(40)
11 Sullivan & Cromwell LLP (NYC)(40)
12 Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP (NYC)(40)
13 Davis Polk & Wardwell LLP (NYC)(20)
14 Jenner & Block LLP (NYC)(20)
15 Paul Hastings LLP (NYC)(20)
16 Sidley Austin LLP (DC)(20)
17 Jones Day (DC)(20)
18 WilmerHale (DC)(20)
19 Baker Botts LLP (DC)(20)
20 Latham & Watkins LLP (DC)(20)
21 Cleary Gottlieb Steen & Hamilton LLP (DC)(20)
22 O'Melveny & Myers LLP (DC)(20)
23 Covington & Burling LLP (DC)(20)
24 Hogan Lovells US LLP (DC)(20)
25 Williams & Connolly LLP (DC)(20)
26 Shook, Hardy & Bacon LLP (Chi)(17)
27 Barack Ferrazzano Kirschbaum & Nagelberg LLP (Chi)(40)
28 Baker McKenzie (Chi)(20)

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:31 am

How late do we think we can grab a litigation spot at Mayer Brown this year? It's the first tjme they've split up the practice groups and there's only 20 for lit. Would I need to bid them number one or could I still put them in the late top 10 where they seem to normally go?

Anonymous User
Posts: 287553
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Northwestern OCI 2017

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Will our chances be hurt if we fail to set up an info interview? I sent emails to set some up for my top 15 bids, and have talked with some of the firms previously, but was wondering what would happen if we fail to set one up with a firm we end up interviewing with.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.