Soft spoken

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Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 12:03 am

If you're told that you're soft spoken by a partner, is that basically a no offer?

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rpupkin

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby rpupkin » Thu May 25, 2017 12:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:If you're told that you're soft spoken by a partner, is that basically a no offer?

No.

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jess

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby jess » Thu May 25, 2017 2:47 am

.
Last edited by jess on Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

B90

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby B90 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:29 am

jess wrote:just spend the rest of the summer shouting. it's still may

Excellent advice. Also, invest in copious amounts of throat lozenges and carry them, along with bottled water, on your person at all times. Avoid cheeze its.

sanzgo

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby sanzgo » Thu May 25, 2017 5:32 am

rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you're told that you're soft spoken by a partner, is that basically a no offer?

No.


but it's prob not a good thing right? i guess it's hard to tell without context here...

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Pokemon

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Pokemon » Thu May 25, 2017 7:55 am

sanzgo wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:If you're told that you're soft spoken by a partner, is that basically a no offer?

No.


but it's prob not a good thing right? i guess it's hard to tell without context here...



Reading tea leaves...

masque du pantsu

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby masque du pantsu » Thu May 25, 2017 5:06 pm

Just make sure to carry a big shtick

Barrred

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Barrred » Thu May 25, 2017 5:47 pm

Was "soft spoken" preceded by the word "too"? If so, then it probably means the partner wants you to speak up more in interactions (rather than a comment about your speaking volume, he probably means you should be more assertive/confident). If not, it was probably just a weird throw-away comment. Move on. Enjoy your summer.

lakers180

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby lakers180 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:59 pm

are you a woman?

sounds like some underhanded sexism, like smile more, talk louder, be less grumpy, don't be so soft spoken etc

just try to ignore, prolly nothing to worry about

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 6:04 pm

Nah, I'm a guy. He said he noticed I was soft spoken and that because their clients are sophisticated (and they consider law clerks as future associates), those clients might think i lack confidence/don't know the law very well. Just responded by saying that "i heard that before and am trying to improve but my mindset was to be respectful." i gave 1 or 2 little awkward responses, plus that comment, makes me think i am not getting an offer...we'll see.

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby ballouttacontrol » Thu May 25, 2017 6:05 pm

lakers180 wrote:are you a woman?

sounds like some underhanded sexism, like smile more, talk louder, be less grumpy, don't be so soft spoken etc

just try to ignore, prolly nothing to worry about


jesus do you TLS ENEMIES OF THE GATE ever stop. every thread.............

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 6:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Nah, I'm a guy. He said he noticed I was soft spoken and that because their clients are sophisticated (and they consider law clerks as future associates), those clients might think i lack confidence/don't know the law very well. Just responded by saying that "i heard that before and am trying to improve but my mindset was to be respectful." i gave 1 or 2 little awkward responses, plus that comment, makes me think i am not getting an offer...we'll see.


So the comment preceded you acting nervous/soft spoken in an actual client interaction? The partner is probably trying to legitimately give you advice, so I would take it and work on it. I don't think most people would expect summer associates to be great/totally comfortable in front of clients at this stage in your career, so just take it in stride and try to improve (especially during future interactions with this partner.)

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 6:22 pm

Yea, he was very nice and it seemed like he was genuinely giving me advice. It is kind of frustrating though because I wouldn't be shy or soft in front of a client; I only have this tone in front of partners/judges because comparatively I know nothing so it's kind of funny to act confident when i don't know shit.

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kalvano

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby kalvano » Thu May 25, 2017 6:29 pm

There's a difference between being "soft spoken" and being timid or projecting a lack of confidence that would appear bad to a client. I'm actually fairly soft spoken in dealing with other attorneys and clients, but I've found that you get a lot further (in the transactional world) by generally being polite and nice and soft-spoken, as opposed to loud and in your face.

lolwat

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby lolwat » Thu May 25, 2017 6:45 pm

I think it's just advice, not a no-offer. I also agree with the above post that there's a difference between being soft-spoken and being timid or projecting a lack of confidence. You can easily be soft spoken/polite yet confident/firm.

comparatively I know nothing so it's kind of funny to act confident when i don't know shit.


I will say you probably need to get over this though. When arguing before a Court I'm certainly polite but I argue my position and try to give the impression that I am 100% confident my position is correct. Similar concept with clients. No one expects an associate to know everything but you also don't want to give the impression that you know nothing.

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 7:22 pm

also he did not discuss salary with me, although i did write my preference on the employment form...is that bad?

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Barrred » Thu May 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:also he did not discuss salary with me, although i did write my preference on the employment form...is that bad?


What are you even talking about?

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 7:32 pm

it was a law clerk position. pay was not discussed during the interview. doesn't that mean he has no intention of hiring me?

favabeansoup

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby favabeansoup » Thu May 25, 2017 7:46 pm

I don't think you need to be worried about a no offer for being soft spoken.

From a pessimistic standpoint, no client will see you that much to care for the 4-5ish years you'll make the firm money.

From a normal standpoint, seemed like this guy was just giving some friendly advice for your career, and not a warning to act differently or risk being fired.

I think long term being soft spoken is a detriment, after all we are a client driven business if in private pracice. But you don't need to worry about that for years and years yet.

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Barrred » Thu May 25, 2017 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:it was a law clerk position. pay was not discussed during the interview. doesn't that mean he has no intention of hiring me?


Are you saying that all of this happened during an interview for a "law clerk" position at a firm? I think that everyone (including me) was assuming that you were told that you were soft spoken by a partner at a firm that you are already working at as a summer associate/law clerk. Generally when people say "no offer" here, they mean that you are not going to be offered a job at the end of your summer.

If this all happened during an interview, then yes, it is probably a bad sign that the partner interviewing you openly criticized you for being soft-spoken and told you that clients would conclude that you are incompetent. But that partner also sounds like a dick.

ballouttacontrol

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby ballouttacontrol » Thu May 25, 2017 9:07 pm

Barrred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it was a law clerk position. pay was not discussed during the interview. doesn't that mean he has no intention of hiring me?


Are you saying that all of this happened during an interview for a "law clerk" position at a firm? I think that everyone (including me) was assuming that you were told that you were soft spoken by a partner at a firm that you are already working at as a summer associate/law clerk. Generally when people say "no offer" here, they mean that you are not going to be offered a job at the end of your summer.

If this all happened during an interview, then yes, it is probably a bad sign that the partner interviewing you openly criticized you for being soft-spoken and told you that clients would conclude that you are incompetent. But that partner also sounds like a dick.


agree with all of this except the last sentence. interview feedback is rare - take it and apply that in the next interview.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu May 25, 2017 9:11 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
lakers180 wrote:are you a woman?

sounds like some underhanded sexism, like smile more, talk louder, be less grumpy, don't be so soft spoken etc

just try to ignore, prolly nothing to worry about


jesus do you TLS ENEMIES OF THE GATE ever stop. every thread.............

He wasn't fucking wrong at all. Calling women too soft spoken is a really common kind of double standard complaint. So it didn't happen to apply here - it could have. And actually acknowledging sexism exists doesn't make someone a fucking ENEMIES OF THE GATE.

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby lolwat » Thu May 25, 2017 9:31 pm

ballouttacontrol wrote:
Barrred wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it was a law clerk position. pay was not discussed during the interview. doesn't that mean he has no intention of hiring me?


Are you saying that all of this happened during an interview for a "law clerk" position at a firm? I think that everyone (including me) was assuming that you were told that you were soft spoken by a partner at a firm that you are already working at as a summer associate/law clerk. Generally when people say "no offer" here, they mean that you are not going to be offered a job at the end of your summer.

If this all happened during an interview, then yes, it is probably a bad sign that the partner interviewing you openly criticized you for being soft-spoken and told you that clients would conclude that you are incompetent. But that partner also sounds like a dick.


agree with all of this except the last sentence. interview feedback is rare - take it and apply that in the next interview.


Agree with ballouttacontrol here (including his disagreement with the last sentence above).

He wasn't fucking wrong at all. Calling women too soft spoken is a really common kind of double standard complaint. So it didn't happen to apply here - it could have. And actually acknowledging sexism exists doesn't make someone a fucking ENEMIES OF THE GATE.


Many threads I read seem to go off topic for posts/pages (depending on how long the thread is) on this or similar tangents and it's almost always just a long back and forth about "that was sexist" versus "no it wasn't." I get it's an important issue to people, but I also see where ballouttacontrol is coming from there when reading/responding to these threads. Although I have no idea what the hell a ENEMIES OF THE GATE is.

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 25, 2017 10:23 pm

I thought criticizing women for being "bossy" when they speak up was the big complaint. You also can't tell women they need to speak up more?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Soft spoken

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu May 25, 2017 10:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I thought criticizing women for being "bossy" when they speak up was the big complaint. You also can't tell women they need to speak up more?

Why is the problem what you can't tell women rather than women being called bossy if they speak up and too quiet if they don't (which is entirely a real thing)?

And I take the point about tangents but in this case balla was the one derailing after one entirely unexceptional comment.



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