Fiance won't quit stressful job

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Npret
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Npret » Thu May 18, 2017 1:50 pm

blueapple wrote:
So your suggestion was... wait it out until she gets pregnant? Helpful.

I second the therapy recommendations.


No. Read my post. I suggested helping her find another job, getting therapy and using medical doctors as support.
Maybe read something before you heap scorn. Just a suggestion.

Npret
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Npret » Thu May 18, 2017 1:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks all for the replies.

She's not a workaholic. She works from 9-5 and almost never works on weekends. She just can't cope with the stress.

The stress seems to come from the fact that her clients are facing real life consequences if she loses her case. I suspect that things will get worse once she's transferred to felonies, as the clients will be facing years in prison instead of a 364 days max. She's already said that she dreads the day she gets transferred to felony. She may be transferred any day now, as many of get colleges that started the PD with her are already at felony.

She's been under the knife for 2 hrs now. If this isn't a wake up call, then I don't see myself dealing with this much longer.

If it matters- I've been dating for 5 years (started dating my last 3L semester).

OP:
She allows work to drive her into a serious medical condition. That sounds like being overly invested in work over everything else.
She has a serious psychological issue here whatever you call it and it relates to anxiety about her job. She won't leave that job. You don't have to actually be at work to be obsessed with it.

jhett
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby jhett » Thu May 18, 2017 2:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks all for the replies.

She's not a workaholic. She works from 9-5 and almost never works on weekends. She just can't cope with the stress.

The stress seems to come from the fact that her clients are facing real life consequences if she loses her case. I suspect that things will get worse once she's transferred to felonies, as the clients will be facing years in prison instead of a 364 days max. She's already said that she dreads the day she gets transferred to felony. She may be transferred any day now, as many of get colleges that started the PD with her are already at felony.

She's been under the knife for 2 hrs now. If this isn't a wake up call, then I don't see myself dealing with this much longer.

If it matters- I've been dating for 5 years (started dating my last 3L semester).


There are certain jobs that require some emotional detachment in order for a person to continue working despite what they deal with every day, like ER staff and being a PD. Your fiancee needs to either a) learn how to emotionally detach herself from her clients (e.g., via counseling), or b) move into another line of work. If she's not willing to do either, then it will very difficult for you as her partner to continue watching her deteriorate. If her own hospitalization doesn't convince her, you may have to put your relationship on the line over this issue. If she still chooses her work over her health and you, well, you have your answer.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 2:26 pm

Op here

She's gone to some counseling and it helps a bit. However, she quits going after a few sessions.

I don't believe that counseling is the solution. If her job is so stressful, then the solution is to get a new job. It would be like someone who's allergic to shellfish eat shrimp and then take medication to deal with the side effects of the allergic reaction. Obviously, the sane thing to do would be to not eat shellfish at all. I believe that the sane thing here is to get a new job.

Sorry if I sound too harsh. It has been a long 2 yrs and I'm just too tired of all this.

Would you try to "reason" with an alcoholic spouse who refuses to stop dinking even after having her liver replaced? That's exactly how I feel.

lolwat
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby lolwat » Thu May 18, 2017 2:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Op here

She's gone to some counseling and it helps a bit. However, she quits going after a few sessions.

I don't believe that counseling is the solution. If her job is so stressful, then the solution is to get a new job. It would be like someone who's allergic to shellfish eat shrimp and then take medication to deal with the side effects of the allergic reaction. Obviously, the sane thing to do would be to not eat shellfish at all. I believe that the sane thing here is to get a new job.

Sorry if I sound too harsh. It has been a long 2 yrs and I'm just too tired of all this.

Would you try to "reason" with an alcoholic spouse who refuses to stop dinking even after having her liver replaced? That's exactly how I feel.


Well, I think it might have come down to this then:

If her own hospitalization doesn't convince her, you may have to put your relationship on the line over this issue. If she still chooses her work over her health and you, well, you have your answer.


That's not bad advice if it has gotten that bad.

ur_hero
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby ur_hero » Thu May 18, 2017 2:51 pm

lolwat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Op here

She's gone to some counseling and it helps a bit. However, she quits going after a few sessions.

I don't believe that counseling is the solution. If her job is so stressful, then the solution is to get a new job. It would be like someone who's allergic to shellfish eat shrimp and then take medication to deal with the side effects of the allergic reaction. Obviously, the sane thing to do would be to not eat shellfish at all. I believe that the sane thing here is to get a new job.

Sorry if I sound too harsh. It has been a long 2 yrs and I'm just too tired of all this.

Would you try to "reason" with an alcoholic spouse who refuses to stop dinking even after having her liver replaced? That's exactly how I feel.


Well, I think it might have come down to this then:

If her own hospitalization doesn't convince her, you may have to put your relationship on the line over this issue. If she still chooses her work over her health and you, well, you have your answer.


That's not bad advice if it has gotten that bad.


TBH, sounds like the problem may be her - not the job. A job-change probably isn't easy and she may love her work despite it stressing her out, but it's alarming how little effort she's putting into changing/improving the situation.

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WinterComing
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby WinterComing » Thu May 18, 2017 3:11 pm

OP, your girlfriend is currently undergoing serious surgery and you're spending the time complaining about her and considering the possibility of dumping her with random internet strangers?

I understand that sometimes you need to vent, but this is some kind of heartless. Shame on you, and shame on everyone in here giving you "advice" about relationships and mental health, when they have neither expertise on those topics, nor sufficient information about your situation. You all ought to stick to telling kids which law schools to attend.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 3:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks all for the replies.

She's not a workaholic. She works from 9-5 and almost never works on weekends. She just can't cope with the stress.

The stress seems to come from the fact that her clients are facing real life consequences if she loses her case. I suspect that things will get worse once she's transferred to felonies, as the clients will be facing years in prison instead of a 364 days max. She's already said that she dreads the day she gets transferred to felony. She may be transferred any day now, as many of get colleges that started the PD with her are already at felony.

She's been under the knife for 2 hrs now. If this isn't a wake up call, then I don't see myself dealing with this much longer.

If it matters- I've been dating for 5 years (started dating my last 3L semester).


If counseling isn't an option and she won't leave maybe try creating a routine for when she is at home to minimize thinking about or discussing work.

Also, maybe encourage her to look at a DAs office instead? I know some have intake only positions. Not quite the same as being a PD of course, but it provides the opportunity prevent charges from ever being filed in cases where they shouldn't be. And depending on how flexible you are location wise, look into PD offices with lighter case loads.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Npret » Thu May 18, 2017 3:19 pm

WinterComing wrote:OP, your girlfriend is currently undergoing serious surgery and you're spending the time complaining about her and considering the possibility of dumping her with random internet strangers?

I understand that sometimes you need to vent, but this is some kind of heartless. Shame on you, and shame on everyone in here giving you "advice" about relationships and mental health, when they have neither expertise on those topics, nor sufficient information about your situation. You all ought to stick to telling kids which law schools to attend.


I'm not ashamed. Lol. OP can dump his stress here like everyone else does.
I agree OP needs to consult expert advice and I think that is what people have generally suggested.

lolwat
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby lolwat » Thu May 18, 2017 3:21 pm

WinterComing wrote:OP, your girlfriend is currently undergoing serious surgery and you're spending the time complaining about her and considering the possibility of dumping her with random internet strangers?

I understand that sometimes you need to vent, but this is some kind of heartless. Shame on you, and shame on everyone in here giving you "advice" about relationships and mental health, when they have neither expertise on those topics, nor sufficient information about your situation. You all ought to stick to telling kids which law schools to attend.


And what did you add other than complaining about everyone who has posted in this thread?

According to OP, this kind of downward spiral (leading to the surgery) has gone on for two years. Sure, her being in "serious surgery" might not be the "right time" to talk about this, but to most people I think it sure would be an eye-opener that this shit can't keep going on forever. SOMETHING needs to change -- what exactly that is, people can disagree on, but you offered absolutely nothing to this discussion.

dudders
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby dudders » Thu May 18, 2017 3:24 pm

Is your wife willing to possibly see a therapist or counselor about all of this? Or is she at least willing to talk about this with you?

If this were my partner, I'd probably encourage them to take a leave of absence or FMLA leave (on the basis of the medical condition). She can use that time to recuperate, but also to take a breather, apply for other opportunities, and have some time and space to consider whether she actually wants to stay in this job or not.

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WinterComing
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby WinterComing » Thu May 18, 2017 3:26 pm

lolwat wrote:you offered absolutely nothing to this discussion.


Uh, yeah. That was the point. I think this discussion is distasteful and shouldn't be happening. Why would I also add in my equally unqualified opinion?

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 3:33 pm

WinterComing wrote:
lolwat wrote:you offered absolutely nothing to this discussion.


Uh, yeah. That was the point. I think this discussion is distasteful and shouldn't be happening. Why would I also add in my equally unqualified opinion?


I'm sorry that you find this conversation distasteful. However, I need to figure out a way to deal with this asap, as this "wake up call" may be the best time to attack this head on.

If I wait 2-3 months ( or whatever time you deem appropriate) then she may have reverted to her old ways of thinking making any substantive changes unlikely.

This is not only about me. This job may literally kill her. I've waited 2 yrs. How much longer should I wait?

lolwat
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby lolwat » Thu May 18, 2017 3:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm sorry that you find this conversation distasteful. However, I need to figure out a way to deal with this asap, as this "wake up call" may be the best time to attack this head on.

If I wait 2-3 months ( or whatever time you deem appropriate) then she may have reverted to her old ways of thinking making any substantive changes unlikely.

This is not only about me. This job may literally kill her. I've waited 2 yrs. How much longer should I wait?


Let him fuck off from the thread. A mod can tell us if this discussion is inappropriate. While I don't necessarily think you should take anyone's advice other than an expert, it certainly does not hurt to vent and to collect thoughts from those who are viewing this from the outside before making whatever decision you do. I have nothing more to add than what I already did, though, so I'll just wish you good luck from here.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 3:36 pm

lolwat wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm sorry that you find this conversation distasteful. However, I need to figure out a way to deal with this asap, as this "wake up call" may be the best time to attack this head on.

If I wait 2-3 months ( or whatever time you deem appropriate) then she may have reverted to her old ways of thinking making any substantive changes unlikely.

This is not only about me. This job may literally kill her. I've waited 2 yrs. How much longer should I wait?


Let him fuck off from the thread. A mod can tell us if this discussion is inappropriate. While I don't necessarily think you should take anyone's advice other than an expert, it certainly does not hurt to vent and to collect thoughts from those who are viewing this from the outside before making whatever decision you do. I have nothing more to add than what I already did, though, so I'll just wish you good luck from here.


Thank you.

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WinterComing
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby WinterComing » Thu May 18, 2017 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
WinterComing wrote:
lolwat wrote:you offered absolutely nothing to this discussion.


Uh, yeah. That was the point. I think this discussion is distasteful and shouldn't be happening. Why would I also add in my equally unqualified opinion?


I'm sorry that you find this conversation distasteful. However, I need to figure out a way to deal with this asap, as this "wake up call" may be the best time to attack this head on.

If I wait 2-3 months ( or whatever time you deem appropriate) then she may have reverted to her old ways of thinking making any substantive changes unlikely.

This is not only about me. This job may literally kill her. I've waited 2 yrs. How much longer should I wait?


To be clear, I wasn't suggesting that you "wait." Your situation does seem urgent and I feel for you; it seems like you're in a tough spot. I was suggesting that you turn to a better source for relationship advice than TLS. You must have friends, mentors, family members, counselors, or others who know you and your fiancee and could share an informed perspective that you're unlikely to find here. Breaking off a five-year relationship because someone named "lolwat" told you to just seems really bizarre to me.

But, I'll now take his suggestion and "fuck off from the thread." Good luck to you all with your lives.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
WinterComing wrote:
lolwat wrote:you offered absolutely nothing to this discussion.


Uh, yeah. That was the point. I think this discussion is distasteful and shouldn't be happening. Why would I also add in my equally unqualified opinion?


I'm sorry that you find this conversation distasteful. However, I need to figure out a way to deal with this asap, as this "wake up call" may be the best time to attack this head on.

If I wait 2-3 months ( or whatever time you deem appropriate) then she may have reverted to her old ways of thinking making any substantive changes unlikely.

This is not only about me. This job may literally kill her. I've waited 2 yrs. How much longer should I wait?



Look, I actually kind of agree with Winter here. You committed to marry her and that isn't a joke - even if you haven't signed the papers yet. What if the roles were reversed?

I really recommend you depersonalize this situation and just take care of her. Maybe you have, but I guarantee the ultimatums to her right now are not going to help the situation. I suffer from anxiety and I think i can relate to the pressure.

I also want to maybe suggest there might be something else going on at work, or otherwise, that might be exacerbating this - any chance she is getting harassed? Anything that could have happened to her that caused particular trauma that you might not know about.

I just know that for the most part, the best decisions I've made is when I've given people I love the benefit of the doubt. Obviously not having blinders on, but really learning to love someone means doing it even when they're extremely difficult to love.

Also, I would recommend involving her family or close friends, letting them know you're worried and concerned. She should have other people who love and care for her that you should tap into, so the burden isn't entirely on you. Church community perhaps?

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 4:21 pm

I had a substance abuse problem and significant other stayed with me despite it. Whatever he/she did I would lie/deflect/promise I'd change. We ended up breaking up later for unrelated reasons. I wouldn't have blamed him/her at all for ending things - it probably would have been the right decision. You can't help someone who doesn't want to help themselves.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Phil Brooks » Thu May 18, 2017 4:59 pm

The thought police and puritans on here need to get a reality check. Winter shamed OP for even thinking of breaking up with his fiancé (then backtracked and pretended that his only concern was that OP shared his thoughts with strangers). Then the other anonymous user clutched his/her pearls because the couple may break up even though *gasp* they are already engaged.

OP, I'm sorry you had to deal with judgmental people on this thread.

Npret
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Npret » Thu May 18, 2017 5:02 pm

Phil Brooks wrote:The thought police and puritans on here need to get a reality check. Winter shamed OP for even thinking of breaking up with his fiancé (then backtracked and pretended that his only concern was that OP shared his thoughts with strangers). Then the other anonymous user clutched his/her pearls because the couple may break up even though *gasp* they are already engaged.

OP, I'm sorry you had to deal with judgmental people on this thread.

Probably a sample of what OP is facing in real life.
OP can go to a therapist and counseling on his own to get a solid plan in place. OP needs help handling this situation and deciding what to do.
It must be very hard to watch someone you love damage their health from work.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 6:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Thanks all for the replies.

She's not a workaholic. She works from 9-5 and almost never works on weekends. She just can't cope with the stress.

The stress seems to come from the fact that her clients are facing real life consequences if she loses her case. I suspect that things will get worse once she's transferred to felonies, as the clients will be facing years in prison instead of a 364 days max. She's already said that she dreads the day she gets transferred to felony. She may be transferred any day now, as many of get colleges that started the PD with her are already at felony.

She's been under the knife for 2 hrs now. If this isn't a wake up call, then I don't see myself dealing with this much longer.

If it matters- I've been dating for 5 years (started dating my last 3L semester).

OP, I'm a biglaw associate engaged to a PD. So first off, I appreciate that the stress can be untenable. I probably work close to 50% more hours but my job is actually the one that puts less tension on the relationship. It's not sustainable.

She needs to come to terms with this problem. She can't stay at the job if this is the effect on her and on you. You may want to emphasize that latter point to her, if you haven't. Someone in a job like hers might not want to admit weakness and "give up," because her clients objectively have it so much worse and she doesn't want to abandon them or the work. If you make it clear how much her situation is affecting YOU, though, that may give her the opportunity she needs to really reckon with the problem.

I wouldn't give her an ultimatum, however. If you have to leave you have to leave. But if she makes major life changes solely because you threatened to break off the engagement, she may come to resent that, even if the change was absolutely necessary for both of you. If she isn't willing to make some changes even after you make it clear that it's harming you as well as her, then I wonder if the relationship may have run its course. This won't be the last major stress you guys encounter in your life together.

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Fri May 19, 2017 9:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't believe that counseling is the solution. If her job is so stressful, then the solution is to get a new job. It would be like someone who's allergic to shellfish eat shrimp and then take medication to deal with the side effects of the allergic reaction. Obviously, the sane thing to do would be to not eat shellfish at all. I believe that the sane thing here is to get a new job.

I disagree with this. I'm sure being a PD is inherently extremely stressful, but like with most stressful jobs, an emotionally healthy adult should be able to cope with that and still live a satisfactory life. The exception would be if the whole job is just a terrible fit for her personality, but the fact​ that she enjoyed it at first suggests that this is not the case. What I'm saying is that the job is not the problem, SHE has a problem, and that's good news because in a way it's more fixable (since she doesn't want to leave the job). But she will need to accept that her responses to this job (not being able to enjoy downtime, getting sick, etc.) are not normal and healthy but are indicative of a lack of coping skills or maybe even a mental issue on her part, which is not her fault and not a huge deal at all, she just needs to commit to fixing it, and possibly being patient as she finds the right doctor/counselor and the right treatment approach. (With mental issues, the first thing you try may well not be the thing that works. Don't give up.)

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 19, 2017 10:25 am

BaiAilian2013 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I don't believe that counseling is the solution. If her job is so stressful, then the solution is to get a new job. It would be like someone who's allergic to shellfish eat shrimp and then take medication to deal with the side effects of the allergic reaction. Obviously, the sane thing to do would be to not eat shellfish at all. I believe that the sane thing here is to get a new job.

I disagree with this. I'm sure being a PD is inherently extremely stressful, but like with most stressful jobs, an emotionally healthy adult should be able to cope with that and still live a satisfactory life. The exception would be if the whole job is just a terrible fit for her personality, but the fact​ that she enjoyed it at first suggests that this is not the case. What I'm saying is that the job is not the problem, SHE has a problem, and that's good news because in a way it's more fixable (since she doesn't want to leave the job). But she will need to accept that her responses to this job (not being able to enjoy downtime, getting sick, etc.) are not normal and healthy but are indicative of a lack of coping skills or maybe even a mental issue on her part, which is not her fault and not a huge deal at all, she just needs to commit to fixing it, and possibly being patient as she finds the right doctor/counselor and the right treatment approach. (With mental issues, the first thing you try may well not be the thing that works. Don't give up.)

I tend to agree with this, based on the limited information we have. It is possible that this is simply the wrong job for her (PD is obviously a stressful job), but it also sounds as though she is, well, manufacturing stress to some extent (I don't mean that accusatorily). OP, that's not to say that changing jobs wouldn't help or isn't an appropriate step, but she may run into this kind of problem in any legal job (especially if she wants to be in a job she considers meaningful, which I would imagine is the case if she's chosen to be a PD).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 19, 2017 10:33 am

Also, re: the "distastefulness" of this thread: this forum is here for people to raise questions they think other law students/lawyers can help them with. This is a question involving legal jobs. People have responded seriously and thoughtfully. There's also nothing about posting here that suggests the OP isn't *also* talking to friends/family/etc., or that the OP is going to blindly follow what anonymous people on the internet say. If you personally would be uncomfortable raising such a subject here you certainly never have to, but there's no reason someone should be shamed for doing so. (I might be kind of upset if I were the fiancée and I read about this here, but that's something the OP has to weigh in deciding where to turn for advice. Family and friends pose a similar risk, frankly.)

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Re: Fiance won't quit stressful job

Postby elendinel » Fri May 19, 2017 11:26 am

I can't believe there needed to be a discussion of how "maybe babies will fix her" is problematic.

OP I also think your fiancee likely needs counseling. Ideally someone who specifically works with PDs (or even any criminal atty) and who can help her figure out how to manage her stress. She won't be saving many clients if she's constantly in the hospital; maybe that can be her motivation? I disagree at any rate with the attitude that extremely stressful jobs + counseling = problematic, though; I think that may come from a mentality that therapy is only to be used in moments of weakness or that sustained therapy sessions shouldn't be necessary. There'd be nothing wrong with your fiancee having to go to a counselor regularly to process what's going on throughout her career, if it helps her get where she wants to go and especially if it helps her better deal with the stress.

I think the better question is why she stopped; it may be because your attitude makes her ashamed to continue long-term, or it may be because she had a bad therapist and needs a different one, or it may be because she doesn't want to do the work to solve her problem, or all sorts of other things. Whichever it is would give you a better sense of whether this is something you can work through or not.

If counseling can't help then maybe she needs to switch careers to something that still helps defendants, but not in the PD setting. Like maybe innocence project, or a non-profit who helps released defendants get back on their feet, etc. Part of her hesitance may be that she feels like helping her clients is her calling, but that the PD job in particular is not her cup of tea; if she talks to her CS/alums of her office she may find jobs that still have her helping out in substantial ways, without having to do the PD route.

I guess the TL; DR version of all this is I think you need to try and find ways to support her in doing what will help her do what she wants to do (stay a PD? Work with defendants? Make a difference?), rather than what you want her to do (ie, getting a new job). But that you should also try to get a better understanding of why she wants what she wants, so that you can either recognize when you're actually standing in the way of her progress, or recognize when no amount of support on your part is going to help her.




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