Trump student loan plans

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Rahviveh
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Rahviveh » Thu May 18, 2017 10:15 am

encore1101 wrote:
Aristogeiton1 wrote:Hurrah. More damage to the higher education system here in the US. What could go wrong?



Well, we could always resort to coal mining since that industry is apparently making a comeback.


God forbid you'd have to do some actual god honest work for a living instead of being a paper pushing monkey.

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encore1101
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby encore1101 » Thu May 18, 2017 10:36 am

Rahviveh wrote:
encore1101 wrote:
Aristogeiton1 wrote:Hurrah. More damage to the higher education system here in the US. What could go wrong?



Well, we could always resort to coal mining since that industry is apparently making a comeback.


God forbid you'd have to do some actual god honest work for a living instead of being a paper pushing monkey.



Yeah, those 8 years I spent in the military using a mine detector to find IEDs in 130+ degree weather with 70 pounds of gear while getting shot at really prepared me for pushing papers.

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Nebby
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Nebby » Thu May 18, 2017 10:49 am

Rahviveh wrote:
encore1101 wrote:
Aristogeiton1 wrote:Hurrah. More damage to the higher education system here in the US. What could go wrong?



Well, we could always resort to coal mining since that industry is apparently making a comeback.


God forbid you'd have to do some actual god honest work for a living instead of being a paper pushing monkey.

Please do some actual work and fuck off

cavalier1138
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu May 18, 2017 10:57 am

Desert Fox wrote:Worst case you keep paying for an extra 5 years. Sounds fair to me. Subsidizing a bunch of lawyers is a terrible waste of resources.


Yes. Thank Odin this proposed cut wouldn't affect the thousands upon thousands of other employees covered by loan forgiveness who aren't lawyers.

Also, have some self-respect.

albanach
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby albanach » Thu May 18, 2017 11:07 am

JakeTappers wrote:Obviously, this seems disastrous for law students in public service, particularly those 5 years in who have made huge life decisions based on PSLF. It's hard to imagine there isn't a detrimental reliance argument for those who have, but, as many have discussed, the government doesn't care and no one knows if or how that argument could ever play out. .


The government will likely start to care when it realizes there will be a vast exodus from prosecutor and PD offices. There will be a fairly strong right-wing lobby too - there are plenty of conservative 501(c)(3) organizations that benefit from this too. I still think it unlikely to be retrospective.

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Nebby
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Nebby » Thu May 18, 2017 11:18 am

albanach wrote:
JakeTappers wrote:Obviously, this seems disastrous for law students in public service, particularly those 5 years in who have made huge life decisions based on PSLF. It's hard to imagine there isn't a detrimental reliance argument for those who have, but, as many have discussed, the government doesn't care and no one knows if or how that argument could ever play out. .


The government will likely start to care when it realizes there will be a vast exodus from prosecutor and PD offices. There will be a fairly strong right-wing lobby too - there are plenty of conservative 501(c)(3) organizations that benefit from this too. I still think it unlikely to be retrospective.

I agree. Not to mention every Senator likely knows people on PSLF and they're unlikely to pass a retroactive law that fucks over people they know personally.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Desert Fox » Thu May 18, 2017 11:46 am

Exodus to where. They'll probably lose good candidates to the private practice, but there aren't enough jobs to go around.

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VulcanVulcanVulcan
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby VulcanVulcanVulcan » Thu May 18, 2017 11:48 am

I'm curious how this affects the economics of PAYE, which a lot of biglaw types use to spread out loan payments. Does 30y/12.5% represent a much worse proposition than 20y/10%? Seems to be yes, in which case, what is the point of PAYE?

albanach
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby albanach » Thu May 18, 2017 12:00 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Exodus to where. They'll probably lose good candidates to the private practice, but there aren't enough jobs to go around.


A very large number could make the same money by hanging a shingle and doing basic criminal defense and low value civil litigation. I could see entire offices decamping to start a firm in some locations.

This work will still have to be done. For criminal stuff, the courts will end up having to hand it out to private counsel and the cost will increase. Taxpayers will pick up the burden.

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Johann
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Johann » Thu May 18, 2017 12:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Exodus to where. They'll probably lose good candidates to the private practice, but there aren't enough jobs to go around.

its not going anywhere. so feel free to spin your wheels staying angry about hard workers making $45k and "only" having to pay back like 40k in loans rather than 200k.

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dresden doll
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby dresden doll » Thu May 18, 2017 12:55 pm

It's going to be awesome to see this reintroduced time and time again for each of the next four (eight?) years.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu May 18, 2017 1:23 pm

VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:I'm curious how this affects the economics of PAYE, which a lot of biglaw types use to spread out loan payments. Does 30y/12.5% represent a much worse proposition than 20y/10%? Seems to be yes, in which case, what is the point of PAYE?

Breakeven on PAYE vs refi is probably around 150k. This change would just move that number higher, but plenty of people starting now will finish with well over 300k debt so it's still better than being stuck on a normal plan.

dresden doll wrote:It's going to be awesome to see this reintroduced time and time again for each of the next four (eight?) years.

The last DoD put out a proposal to cap PSLF at 57,500 like 3-4 years ago. Oceans rise, cities fall, fear of retroactive changes to loan forgiveness remains.

Anonymous User
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 18, 2017 1:55 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
VulcanVulcanVulcan wrote:I'm curious how this affects the economics of PAYE, which a lot of biglaw types use to spread out loan payments. Does 30y/12.5% represent a much worse proposition than 20y/10%? Seems to be yes, in which case, what is the point of PAYE?

Breakeven on PAYE vs refi is probably around 150k. This change would just move that number higher, but plenty of people starting now will finish with well over 300k debt so it's still better than being stuck on a normal plan.

dresden doll wrote:It's going to be awesome to see this reintroduced time and time again for each of the next four (eight?) years.

The last DoD put out a proposal to cap PSLF at 57,500 like 3-4 years ago. Oceans rise, cities fall, fear of retroactive changes to loan forgiveness remains.


Yup. Sigh.

But at least I was pretty certain the Obama budget was DOA. I wouldn't swear for this.

Bluem_11
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Bluem_11 » Tue May 23, 2017 12:24 pm


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Desert Fox
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Desert Fox » Tue May 23, 2017 12:25 pm

Grandfathered including finishing the program is more than fair.

Bluem_11
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Bluem_11 » Tue May 23, 2017 1:18 pm

Discussed on page 20 of the Trump White House's budget proposal (which reportedly is DOA in Congress but the student loan provision enjoys bipartisan support)

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/whiteh ... budget.pdf

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 23, 2017 2:12 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Grandfathered including finishing the program is more than fair.

Totally fair for new borrowers. Would be totally fucked to do to people who arranged their entire education and career around PSLF being available.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Desert Fox » Tue May 23, 2017 4:19 pm

Someone should suggest a write off when the person the later of: 67 years old or 25 years of payments. And in the mean time, each year any unpaid interest is written off.

That way some asshole who goes DOJ honors for 10 years then biglaw, pays his fair share.

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Johann
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Johann » Tue May 23, 2017 4:26 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Someone should suggest a write off when the person the later of: 67 years old or 25 years of payments. And in the mean time, each year any unpaid interest is written off.

That way some asshole who goes DOJ honors for 10 years then biglaw, pays his fair share.

he paid his fair share... 10 years of govt rather than biglaw prolly means they forewent $2M of comp

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Desert Fox
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Desert Fox » Tue May 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Johann wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Someone should suggest a write off when the person the later of: 67 years old or 25 years of payments. And in the mean time, each year any unpaid interest is written off.

That way some asshole who goes DOJ honors for 10 years then biglaw, pays his fair share.

he paid his fair share... 10 years of govt rather than biglaw prolly means they forewent $2M of comp


and he'll make it back as partner in 3-4 years. It doesn't make ANY policy sense to hand him a 400k gift when poor kids can't even read good.

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Johann
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Johann » Tue May 23, 2017 4:33 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Johann wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Someone should suggest a write off when the person the later of: 67 years old or 25 years of payments. And in the mean time, each year any unpaid interest is written off.

That way some asshole who goes DOJ honors for 10 years then biglaw, pays his fair share.

he paid his fair share... 10 years of govt rather than biglaw prolly means they forewent $2M of comp


and he'll make it back as partner in 3-4 years. It doesn't make ANY policy sense to hand him a 400k gift when poor kids can't even read good.

you are using the exception to fuck over the norm. the rules have to be somewhat broad. it doesnt make sense to make a govt lifer have to pay until they are 67 years old (past the age of some govt retirements). that situation is the far more common situation. there are a few handfuls of biglaw partners coming out of govt after getting 10 years of govt experience every year.

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Desert Fox
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby Desert Fox » Tue May 23, 2017 4:34 pm

Making people pay for the loans they took isn't some huge penalty.

wesker
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby wesker » Tue May 23, 2017 4:35 pm

But grad plus interest rates are ridiculous!

cavalier1138
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue May 23, 2017 5:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:That way some asshole who goes DOJ honors for 10 years then biglaw, pays his fair share.


Yeah, this is totally the normal scenario for PSLF. Everyone knows that people are just using the DOJ honors program as a cheat code to avoid paying back their loans while they get super-rich off those phat government salaries.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: Trump student loan plans

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Tue May 23, 2017 5:37 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Making people pay for the loans they took isn't some huge penalty.

It is if the availability of forgiveness was a condition of their taking out the loans.

I don't get the attitude like these are people who are trying to cheat the system. This IS the system. They borrowed money on the terms of, you can either (a) pay it all back or (b) pay some of it back and get the rest forgiven if you follow these rules. You can't just get rid of option b and then call people deadbeats for not wanting to do option a.




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